Better information makes for healthier horses,
Horseadvice.com is where equine science and horse sense intersect.

Discussion on Broken Hoof Pastern Axis

Use the navigation bar above to access articles and more discussions on this topic.
Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Susanne
Member
Username: scrupi1

Post Number: 56
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 - 6:41 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I purchased a 3 year old Friesian/Holsteiner/TB cross this fall. We did do a pre-purchase exam which he passed with flying colors, however no x-rays were taken (my decision due to the horse not yet being in work and being (-) on all flexions, and wanting to save money). When he arrived I noticed that his hind feet seemed much more upright than the front but did not really think much about it. He has been under saddle for about a month now and doing well and when I mentioned how upright the hind feet looked to my farrier he checked the angles and said that the left hind was at a 65 deg angle and the right hind at 62, we could both tell that the hoof pastern axis was broken. He has very little toe and quite a bit of heel. The horse is currently barefoot and has healthy feet so the farrier suggested taking some heel off of the left hoof to try to get the angles equal (we wanted to be conservative as the horse is not currently having any soundness issues and we did not want to change anything drastically without x-rays). He was only able to lower the angle a degree or two by taking some of the heel. He also mentioned that with him being part Friesian the hind feet conformation may be different due to the Friesian breed characteristics. I have never owned a horse that has been part Friesian and have been trying to look things up on the internet. Is this true? Do Friesians have more upright angles in their back feet? Are we on the right track by trying to first match the back feet angles and than slowly lower the angles as possible? He said that until we start to put shoes on the back it will be slow progress in lowering the angles but I am reluctant to shoe a young horse that has solid feet and is not really in enough work to warrant the shoes, however, if it is in the horses best interests I would not be opposed. Thank you!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Julie Masner
Member
Username: juliem

Post Number: 699
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 - 4:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Matching the angles is not necessarily a good thing to do. Each hoof has to be trimmed according to the structures of the leg and foot. Trying to make them match may or may not be the right thing to do. For example, with a club foot--the club foot will start to give serious p0roblems if a farrier tries to make it match the other foot. Pictures would help us judge, and they need to show the leg, at least from the cannon bone fown and the hoof (feathers are going to make it hard to see). Pictures of the hoof as well. Others can tell you which views there to take. Maybe Dr. O missed this post, and he could tell you if xrays would help determine what the proper hoof pastern angle should be. When you lower his heels, the hoof itself should be your guide, not the number on your farrier's tool. I also don't understand his statement that without shoes lowering the hoof will take longer??
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24261
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 - 6:25 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Susanne,
No Friesians don't have particularly upright conformation and certainly if the angles are correct that would constitute a clubbed foot. I do have some reserve at taking the hoof angles at face value. Too often I have seen hoof protractors that were used in a manner to give incorrect results and none are accurate to a degree or two. Hmmmmmmm...

Let me ask does your horse now look as he did when you bought him? We are only a few days into winter so it cannot have been long since the purchase. What did the veterinarian say about these angles? How has the horses overall condition changed?

What are the chances of getting some good conformation shots of the horse posted? Until we get some objective data it is hard to know if you are on the right course or not but remember you don't want to match the feet so much as maintain a correct hoof/pastern axis as discussed in the article associated with this discussion.
DrO
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Susanne
Member
Username: scrupi1

Post Number: 57
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Tuesday, Dec 29, 2009 - 7:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Dr. O,
I will try to get some good conformation shots of the hind legs posted by tomorrow.
The horses feet look the same as they did when I purchased him in September. When he arrived I noticed that the angle between the hind legs pastern and hoof did not match and was wondering about it but forgot to bring it up to my vet/farrier immediately. He was very underweight when he arrived in September but after floating his teeth and starting him on a diet of free choice hay, pasture and grain am/pm, he has steadily gained weight since. The vet made no mention of any conformational faults on the pre-purchase exam and noted that the movement exam was normal and all flexions performed (fetlocks, knees, hocks, and stifles) were negative and did say that his conformation behind would lend itself well to jumping. He is a nice mover and really moves up under himself at the walk and trot and I know that having more of an upright angle can place the suspensories at increased risk of injury and since he is going to be trained for eventing this worries me.
My farrier seemed taken aback when I mentioned that I was worried about the angles in the back feet and I got the sense that he was embarrassed that he had not noticed the angle in earlier trimmings and when I mentioned that he was part freisian and he made the comment about it being a breed characteristic that did not make sense to me and made me worry more.
I will post pics tomorrow evening so we can see what you think. Thanks so much. Susanne
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Susanne
Member
Username: scrupi1

Post Number: 58
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, Dec 31, 2009 - 4:33 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Here are the pictures of each hind leg/hoof:left hindright hind
Just let me know if I need to post any additional views. Thank you! Susanne
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24279
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Saturday, Jan 2, 2010 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Susanne, I was hoping to get to my office and put the images on a big screen and enlarge them but that has not happened so let's start anyway.

Assuming the horse is standing square and equally weighted on all 4 the images do have a slightly broken hoof pastern axis particularly the image on the left. The right is so mild as to be considered acceptable. So the question becomes is this horse really clubby on the left or can the heels be taken back s little bit more over time to create a normal hoof pastern axis.

What was the farrier's reason for not trimming a bit more?
DrO
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Susanne
Member
Username: scrupi1

Post Number: 59
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Saturday, Jan 2, 2010 - 1:26 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Dr. O,
Thanks for responding. The farrier did not give any real reason as to why he could not take the heel down further, I will ask him the next time he comes out. For now would the best thing be to try to let him grow the toe and take some of the heel each trimming session? The farrier did say that if we had x-rays of the bony alignment available he would not hesitate to take more heel off.
Susanne
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24284
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Sunday, Jan 3, 2010 - 10:10 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I don't know if he needs more toe Susanne: are you cutting out sole horn at the toe? If so you can let then grow a bit. But if you can get the heels down to where the pastern and hoof align when the horse is standing square that would be optimum.
DrO
Post a Message to this Discussion
Posting
Instructions:
Full Service Members may post to this discussion and should address the orignial poster's concerns or other information posted here. New questions about your horse should be started in a new discussion. Use the navigation bar at the top of this page to return to the parent article and review the article and existing discussions. If your question remains unanswered "Start a New Discussion", the link is under the list of discussions at the bottom of the article.
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username:
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:
Home Page | Todays Discussions | Search | Top of Page Administration
  http://www.horseadvice.com
is The Horseman's Advisor
Helping Thousands of Equestrians, Farriers, and Veterinarians Every Day
All rights reserved, © 2014
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC