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Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen
Post Number: 694
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 18, 2005 - 2:46 pm: |   |
There are plenty of articles on the Internet (few as good as Dr O's!) about conformation and pastern angles and recent studies showing 45 degrees isn't realistic, studies showing that the angles are more in the 50 plus range but... I haven't found a single one that shows you which way you measure it.
Is it the ground horizontal zero degrees, the toe is the angle and the fetlock marks the other end of the line you measure at an angle from the ground OR is it 50 plus degrees from the vertical that you measure?
Sorry I'm sure everyone else knows this but it isn't obvious to me so many thanks for any replies. Mathematically it doesn't matter which way you are measuring if the "traditional" correct answer of 45 degrees is what you are aiming for but if in fact the figure is more like 54-58 degrees then you need to know!
Best wishes
Imogen |
joj
Member
Username: Jojo15
Post Number: 594
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 18, 2005 - 5:13 pm: | |
I can't remember where exactly but they even sell a tool that measures for you. It had to be on one of the hoof sites. Try barefoot google and see.
Tonight when i am goofing off i will check too! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13550
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Aug 19, 2005 - 6:53 am: | |
Lets start with where the angle is measured from: It is the angle of the hoof/pastern with the ground, the ground is the other vertice of the angle. I have seen a device used to measure various limb angles and if I remember right is called a gonometer. But the correct pastern angle is not a number but a condition: the angle of the pastern is correct when it aligns with the hoof as illustrated in the article associated with this discussion.
Pastern alignment is adjusted by balancing the foot, front to back. So, it is the foot angle that is often measured and adjusted to obtain a pastern in alignment with the hoof. They make a tool to measure hoof angle but it must be used very carefully for accurate reproducible measurements. To see how hoof trimming effects alignment see References » Equine Illustrations » Leg Anatomy and Conformation » Foot and Pastern: proper a-p (anterior to posterior) balance and trimming.
DrO |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen
Post Number: 695
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Aug 19, 2005 - 12:04 pm: | |
I understand the importance of the pastern alignment and I wouldn't dream of interfering with my expert farrier's trimming, I just think my foal has very upright, very long pasterns and I was interested to find out if they are outside the normal range or not.
On a good day I think she'll make a great dressage horse, on a bad day I reckon she'll never be sound enough to even break at three years old (though she has yet to take a lame step...)
Now I know how to measure it! Thanks Dr O
All the best
Imogen |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen
Post Number: 696
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Aug 20, 2005 - 7:50 am: | |
Measured them. She is 4 months, 13 h2 high, 208 kg and her pastern angles are as bad as I thought from just looking at them - 70 degrees in front and 58 behind (though to be honest it is actually very hard to get a baby to stand still for long enough to do it accurately).
It mightn't quite be 70 but it is definitely way over the "top" range of normal in front and her pasterns are easily as long as her 16h3 mother's already... I suppose she will come down a bit as she grows.
I'm not bothered about the "showing" aspect of it, as she does not look weird, she is fairly in proportion apart from the angle, I just cannot see how she'll stay sound but I'll keep y'all posted in three years time!
Best wishes
Imogen |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13558
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Aug 20, 2005 - 9:32 am: | |
Subjectively I find that the cannon and pasterns are long in foals and usually the horse will grow into them.
Certainly we all worry about whether our foals fall into some normal range with respect to other foals, but you have to be sure that the alignment is correct and if not, determine whether it is trimming or tendon contracture causing the upright pasterns.
DrO |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13565
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Aug 20, 2005 - 10:39 am: | |
We crossed paths in the above postings Imogen and my response is to you previous post. Could you post a picture of the foal from both sides when standing fairly square. Be sure the light is behind you when you shoot.
DrO |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen
Post Number: 697
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 21, 2005 - 11:05 am: | |
I checked the front pastern angle again, it is 70 degrees.
The farrier is coming to shoe Mum and trim the foal next Saturday - I'll try then to get good pictures on flat ground (if possible standing next to Mum so you can see what I mean about how long these pasterns are...).
All the best
Imogen |
Lori
Member
Username: Maggienm
Post Number: 134
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Apr 9, 2006 - 11:45 am: | |
Imogen, I am curious about the foal and its pastern angles. I have heard that the pastern in a foal is very close to its adult length so will look disproportionate.
Also, I have heard that the pastern angle relaxes or goes down/changes as the foal matures.
Now that your baby is about a year what do you think of its pasterns and angles? |
