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Discussion on GOT HIGH LEVELS IN HORSES

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JUAN NOGUERA (Carlosn)
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 28, 2001 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

WHAT SHOULD I DO IN THIS CASES.?
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
Posted on Thursday, Mar 29, 2001 - 7:39 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I THINK I WOULD LOWER THEM.

I am sorry Juan I could not help myself: what is it you have high levels of?
DrO
PS If you will type using proper capitalization it is easier to read and more likely to garner responses.
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daniel dugan
New Member
Username: Horse101

Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Sunday, Jan 5, 2003 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Help DrO,
I recently claimed a thoroughbred horse who I have recently found out was trained on banamine and given the drug 24 hourse before racetime which is illegal in the state I race. The horse never tested positive because it is suspected the trainer was using a masking drug so it wouldn't show up in the post race blood test. Can you explain the use of masking drugs as I am not familiar with them!

Thank You
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 7538
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Monday, Jan 6, 2003 - 5:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Daniel,
Welcome to Horseadvice.com. The story is probably not true as improved detection makes them less effective and the masking drugs are illegal in the states I am familiar with. I do not know away to hide Banamine in the blood.

Masking drugs work through one of two ways: they hide the drug behind the chemical signature of the masking agent or they increase the elimination rate of a illegal drug. He was most likely giving small enough doses far enough away to remain under the illegal limit. I must admit I do not deal with these type issues at all in my practice so talking with a track veterinarian you trust may turn up more information about local rules and testing. For more on this see, Equine Medications and Nutriceuticals Practical Advice on Complying With AHSA Drug Rules.
DrO
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Christy Schulthess
Member
Username: Tmo0hul

Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Monday, Jan 6, 2003 - 12:55 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Was the horse winning? If not, it could be that the horse never went to the test barn. Are you an owner or a trainer? What state do you race in?How long have you been involved with Thoroughbreds? Many trainers claim (although it may not be true - Dr O you can comment on the chemistry better) that Bute can mask some drugs - this is why most horses will be entered on it. Also, the theory in the business (which may not be scientifically correct) is that if the drug is given in the muscle instead of the vein, then it enters the system more slowly. Thus the blood levels are lower and may not test. I'd have to consult my drug book, but banamine is only really effective for about 8 hours (or less - Dr. O?), I believe. In Kentucky it is given legally 4 hours before race time. If you give it the night before it will have worn off. So, I guess I'd say this - the trainer was lucky that it didn't test considering it didn't help the horse much.

If you are new to the track I wouldn't go around asking a whole lot of questions about masking drugs. Security is very tight and you don't want people to get the wrong idea. Also, it is a very tight knit group who won't give up their secrets. The vets may be of assistance. However, most are employed by the big time trainers and won't give up their knowledge to their employer's competition.
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daniel dugan
Member
Username: Horse101

Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2003
Posted on Monday, Jan 6, 2003 - 7:46 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello DrO and Christy,
I thank You both for good information. In answering your questions I am a horse owner, and currently have an assistant trainer license. I have been involved with thoroughbreds for over 15 years. I definitely can relate to what you mentioned about the "click" on the backstretch and do make an effort to ask questions, but not cross the line. The horse that I claimed was running well and was winning so a blood test would be inevitable. Unfortunately for me the trainer I claimed him from had a positive test for banamine on another horse and will be serving a 10 day suspension. (Ironic this happened about 2 weeks after I claimed from him.) That horse was disqualified from purse money, but my horse somehow fell under the radar. Lastly, I race in the state of Pennsylvania and any information or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 7543
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2003 - 7:15 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

It depends on the tests run Christy, but with modern testing, no bute will not hide other drugs and in fact under some rules the combination of some bute with other drugs is easily detected and forbidden. Muscle injections may result in lower peak levels but the drug will be in the system longer, sometimes much longer: it is a double edge sword.

How long the Banamine will be effective is very variable and depends on: the nature and severity of the condition and how you define success. For instance a swelling and soreness caused by the horse interfering with his self may be completely cured with a touch of Banamine, while a broken leg it has no effect on. Yes I know these extremes are not what you are dealing with commonly but every conditon lies on a line, a continuum. The effectiveness of NSAIDs on any particular condition is a matter of trial and error.
DrO
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