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Discussion on Paints can be registered as QH?

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Sara Wolff
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Username: mrose

Post Number: 5113
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Friday, Jun 26, 2009 - 6:54 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Although I've always had Arabians, we somehow now have a very nice registerd Paint mare who is breeding stock Paint. On another thread I think I read that now Paints can also be registered as QH also? How does this work? How do I find out out if this mare is elegible for double registry as a QH?

I was so proud of myself because I thought I was catching on to the whole "Paint thing" and now I have to learn about Quarter Horses? !!
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leslie645
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Username: leslie1

Post Number: 842
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, Jun 26, 2009 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sara
Are either her parents registered with AQHA?
hmmm julie or sara prolly know or who to call.

Are you thinking of getting into breeding again?? or just curious?

awwwww, what about a grulla tobanio(sp?)foal or maybe a dun tobanio foal... I personally think the paint/arab cross is quite lovely looking.
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Diane E.
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Username: scooter

Post Number: 4431
Registered: 9-2000
Posted on Friday, Jun 26, 2009 - 9:55 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sara you have a paint mare now

From my 4-h days which was a LOOONG time ago (they drilled colors into our head)

I THINK to be registered as a paint they can only have QH OR TB breeding in their lineage, otherwise they are a Pinto.

I remember they had a rule in the QH registry that if the horses had white above their knees they could not be registered as a QH, I believe, but not sure that they have changed that, since getting out of breeding I don't keep up with it much.

I'll be interested to know too, my memory being what it is I don't think a true paint can be registered as a QH. I think Paints are now considered a "breed" rather than a color...but don't know!

Are you going to have a pintabian foal??
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jos
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Username: paardex

Post Number: 1439
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Friday, Jun 26, 2009 - 11:52 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ha with her Black sire it will probably be black[easy!] and with Waseem grey????
Especially as the lady herself to my unprofessional eyes is BLACK Gosh Sara I like your colors even I can keep up with them.
Jos
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Sara M
Member
Username: sdms

Post Number: 429
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 - 8:07 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Sara! Since your girl is breeding stock she probably has little to no white so you shouldn't have to worry about the AQHA white rules. Diane, you're right though, the rule used to be to the knee on the leg as well as other limited white but they changed that to allow more white a few years ago. I've never had to worry about this type of rule when registering since all my horses are AQHA only with very limited markings. I'm pretty sure, though, (could be wrong...happens frequently these days) that the parents have to both be registered AQHA or one AQHA and one Jockey Club. Do you know if this mare's parents were double registered?

I'd like to see a picture please!
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Sara Wolff
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Username: mrose

Post Number: 5114
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 - 12:52 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

No, don't get all excited! I'm mostly just curious. Although, I DO think she would make a great cross with our black stallion, MR Asmar (Mikey.) All of her foals have been black and white Paints. She is registered Paint. Her name is Otoes Top Moon, she is solid black with a white blaze. Her sire was march Moon Man, a sorrel/overo. Her dam is Soaps Cricket, a QH (!)

I've never really looked at her pedigree. Weird, I know. But, when I bought her I wasn't concerned with if she was registered at all. I just wanted a nice riding horse that anyone could ride and that I could pony off of since my old reliable mare is now 28. Our neighbor (also farrier) had this nice horse that he was trying out for his 4 yr. daughter and 7 yr. old son, and decided the horse wasn't really suitable for what he wanted. He said I could try her out for a month and see if I liked her. I think she's great, so bought her.

Looking now at her pedigree I see that two generations back (grand parents) she has 3 QHs, Minnit Maid Neal, Skip Rouge, and Otoe's Soap Suds. So, from what I understand, she could be registerd QH as well as Paint? If I did breed her, her foal could be registered half Arab. Is there also a registry for Quarter-Arabs (Quarabs?)
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Sarah S
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Username: digger89

Post Number: 21
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 - 1:32 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sara - the quarterhorse registry is only open to offspring of registered quarterhorses, appendix (quarter-thoroughbred cross) or thoroughbreds. Your mare, as a breeding stock paint would not qualify for AQHA registration. The APHA on the other hand accepts both thoroughbred and quarterhorse crosses, even if they do not have any paint markings. A registered paint horse without the color is a "breeding stock" paint. There is also an American Half Quarter Horse Registry which is open to many quarter crosses including arabs. Sarah
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Sara Wolff
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Username: mrose

Post Number: 5116
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 - 6:21 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sarah, how can TBs be accepted and registered as QHs? Do you know the reasoning? I don't care if my mare is registered QH or not, I'm just curious and used to a registry where a horse is either an Arab or not, with a Half Arab registry for any horse thay has any amount of any other breed. Why can my horse, for instance, not be registered QH when within the first 3 generations all the horses but two are QH, and the 2 that aren't are Paints, yet a TB can be registered as QH? Isn't QH a purebred breed? If not, didn't they used to be? Back when I was in high school (pre recorded history!) I had a lovely QH mare, Slick Chick. At that time only QH who's parents were QH could be registered as QH.

I'm anxious now to get my APHA membership packet aso I can have pin # and look up horses in my mare's pedigree. I think it's interesting to see what they did, who they produced, etc. I just sent in my app and fee a few weeks ago although I've had the mare almost a year. When you've owned and bred Arabians for so long, it's tough to break down and join another breed association and admit to having something other than an Arab! Kind of like the dyed in the wool QH people who admidt they have an Arab hiding behind the barn!
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Diane E.
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Username: scooter

Post Number: 4439
Registered: 9-2000
Posted on Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 - 6:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sara if one of the parents is a registered TB one has to be a registered QH. They do kind of keep them separate or at least they used to. I believe they put an x or something like that by their name, in which they are considered an appendix QH. That way you know which ones have TB in their blood and are not considered ("full QH"S)
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leslie645
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Username: leslie1

Post Number: 847
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 - 7:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post


My kingdom for the temperment of an RID, the endurance of an Arab, the cow sense of a QH, the lean speed of a TB, the comfort of a TWH and ability of any European Warmblood.
I defeniatly would keep it in the backyard...so nobody would steal it...plus it would probably look all sorts of weird. LOL

As for Qh, I think there was alot of TB blood in its origins. I believe it has always remained open to Tbs. When I think of QHs I always think of 2 very different kind. One is cow bred...stocky and around 14'3 hh and the other is race bred...leaner with more TB lines and taller. I always consider that 'foundation and Appendix ( although Im not sure that would be correct?)
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Sarah S
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Username: digger89

Post Number: 22
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, Jun 27, 2009 - 9:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sara - the TB isn't registered as a QH, but when a TB is bred to a QH the resulting offspring can be registered as an appendix QH. their reg number will have an X with it. The QH breed was developed from western mustangs, spanish imports, arabs and morgans among others, as well as TBs. Since the formation of the AQHA, the QH stud book has been open only to registered QHs and TBs. No other breeds can be registered as a QH or even an appendix. That is why a registered paint(paints are a breed as well as a color) who is mostly a QH/TB can not also register as a QH. Sarah
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Sara Wolff
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Username: mrose

Post Number: 5119
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 - 12:19 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I found the registration rules out of curiosity. So, and appendix QH is what Arabain folks would consider a "Half Arab" with one parent being a registered TB, if I'm reading this right.

I almost got into an arguement with a woman at a QH show a couple of months ago (I'd stopped to watch for a while.) Many of the horses in a Hunter class looked like they were TBs to me. She assured me they were QHs. She didn't mention the appendix stuff. She also told me that an appendix QH can earn enough pts. to qualify as a "full" QH? I didn't read the rules throughly enough to see if this is true. Do you know if it is?

I was shocked to see all the TB looking QHs. I guess though it's about like seeing all the Arabians that look like Saddlebreds to me!

Thanks for your information. Every breed is so different!

I know the background of QH breed, btw, because back when I had Slick Chick I read about it. She was what now would be called "foundation" QH, I think. Big, stocky mare but amazingly agile. She did everything..jumped, polo, as well as pleasure classes. Seems like she traced back to King Ranch, but it's been so long ago, I'm not positive.
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Sara M
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Username: sdms

Post Number: 430
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 - 12:53 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sara, looks like you got most of your questions answered on my day away! Sorry I can't help with the answer about points and appendix QHs being qualified as "full" QHs. I don't do enough showing in the AQHA and I don't have any appendix horses. Doesn't seem right to me, though. If a horse is half TB you can't change that on the papers. Perhaps she meant that with enough points an appendix QH could qualify for some of the same awards that a full QH could.

I do want to mention, too, that you can't register just any foal born of a cross between a QH and a TB. The TB must be approved by the AQHA for breeding AND receive a "T" number. I don't know what all is involved but it's probably as simple as paying a fee!
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Sara M
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Username: sdms

Post Number: 431
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 - 12:57 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, I probably should have done some research before my last post and I could have pretended to be smarter than I am! Here's a helpful article and it looks like an appendix horse CAN "advance" and become a permanent numbered QH. Take a look toward the bottom of the article for a link to the definition of "advance."

http://americashorsedaily.com/thoroughbred-recording/
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Sara Wolff
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Username: mrose

Post Number: 5120
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 - 10:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks,Sara. I'll read the article right after I bring in the horses. I wonder if you can register both Arabs and QH in the APIG registry? (American Pig.)
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leslie645
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Username: leslie1

Post Number: 848
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 - 11:03 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

FWIW
The Appendix QH can earn Merits points, ROM, and then their foals can be registered as full QH.

My Pumpkin Eater is Appendix and very TB looking. LOL when I took her to the trainers(who works for big TB place in Lexington) last month, when she stepped of the trailer they thought she was OTTB.
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Sara Wolff
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Username: mrose

Post Number: 5122
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Since I don't even own a QH, I don't want to start an arguement here, but as a breeder I am really surprised by this. It would seem like this practice will really change the integrity of the breed. I am wondering why the association, and thereby the owners, are allowing half QH to become full QH. Aren't they happy with the breed as it is? What this will do eventually, is change the breed from what it is known for - or used to be known for - a horse that was built to work cows, do ranch work, etc. , into a totally different animal. Is the association just doing this to get more registrations (money) or do they really want to change the QH? I would think breeders/owners would want to preserve what has become known as "America's Horse." The horse was bred for and excells at certain things. If you want a horse that looks like a TB, own a TB. Or, if you want a horse that has aspects of both breeds, by all means breed a QH to a TB, but call it a half bred, or a Quarterbred, or whatever; even develop a registry for those animals - which,, btw, look like a great cross, but they aren't really full QHs.

The Arabian breed had a similar predicament many years ago, and as a result a new breed was developed, the American Show Horse - half Arab and half Saddlebred.
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leslie645
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Username: leslie1

Post Number: 849
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 - 12:49 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yeah, I think there is a brou-haha between FQHA and AQHA on this very matter.
In my days when I was in AQHA the majority were foundation looking. My dads rope horses were Driftwood bred.
Although most of my AQHA barrel horses were of either three bars or easyjet. Which are legendary QH stallions but areb mostly TB. But the thing is -- back then even the ones with a lot of Tb in them still looked like QHs.

Ive been out for around 20-30 years now. I have noticed the appendix has become very popular in the english classes. especially hunter.
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Sara Wolff
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Username: mrose

Post Number: 5123
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 - 1:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yes; my cousin had a "racing QH" back when I had my QH. This was in the late 50's - early 60's, and his horse had TB. She was built lighter but still looked QH. I hpe they don't ruin the breed. it would be a shame.

I don't understand the way people think. Maybe I'm just getting old and too set in my ways. But, the QH breed isn't the only breed doing this. Look at the Morgans. I loved the old Morgans, and the "new" Morgans I've seen don't even look Morgan. A woman who boards her horses where my sister-in-law boards hers, has several Morgans which show very successfully all over the country. To me they look almost Saddlebred. Was this started because the higher stepping horses won in the show ring, so suddenly every ones breeding them instead of the more traditional type? The problem is, to get the high movement, you have to have different conformation, which changes to entire look of the horse, and consequently of the breed. Many Arabian breeders have fallen for the same thing and breed very Saddlebred looking horses - larger, higher set necks, straighter, longer heads, etc. If breeders (and judges, associations etc.) keep this up, we'll have a hard time telling many of the breeds apart! Thank goodness for the "preservation breeders" of all the breeds!
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leslie645
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Username: leslie1

Post Number: 850
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Youre right, its everywhere
There is a fight to preserve the RID type too....modern Vs. traditional. Most of the US breeders are trying to promote traditional but the sales market is in the modern style. (and ofcourse with the Irish Sport Horse)
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Sarah S
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Username: digger89

Post Number: 23
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 - 8:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Impressive, the QH who passed on Hyperkalemic Periodic Paralysis to his progeny was an appendix. His sire was Lucky Bar, a registered TB. Impressive was a very muscular horse and his offspring still win at halter classes. Sarah
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Sarah S
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Username: digger89

Post Number: 24
Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Sunday, Jun 28, 2009 - 8:45 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Appaloosa breeders have inbred with so many QH and TB lines that they too are losing their foundation look and color. I do have to say that at least the new look has a better tail! Sarah
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Sara M
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Username: sdms

Post Number: 432
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 - 8:28 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sara, I completely agree with you. If there's going to be a breed registry it should be just that. The article said "Above all else, AQHA must maintain the integrity of the American Quarter Horse breed." So, why let TBs in in the first place? The TB cross into the AQHA was originally allowed for racing and it grew from there. Three Bars was a full TB and one of the first to be allowed "registration" in the AQHA because he became a top producer of both speed horses and performance horses. He was very Quarter typey and many of today's top performance horses in the western events have Three Bars in their pedigree somewhere. In fact, some people argue that horses with both Three Bars and King are the best around.

The FQHA and the FQHR were started because there were people that truly wanted to maintain the integrity of the breed. I'm personally involved with the FQHR.

I don't have a problem with crosses. In fact, there are some super nice horses out there that were created by a combination of the best qualities of two breeds. I just don't think any breed registry should muddy the waters by allowing the registration of horses that are not full blooded animals.
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Sara Wolff
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Username: mrose

Post Number: 5127
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 - 11:05 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sara M, my point exactly regardless of the breed. I am concerned that breed traits of many breeds will disappear due to current show ring "fashion" or who's winning and that 50 years from now some of our best breeds will be so altered they will have lost many of the traits they were originally bred for. In the case of the Arabian, we are talking about traits that go back for a thousand years or more. Thankfully, in the Arabian world there are many people who have become concerned about this and have become preservation breeders who breed only certain strains of Arabs to keep those strains alive. I knew of the FQHA also. If I bred QHs I'd certainly be a member. Is there also a group for the Morgans?

I'm not opposed to crossbreeding either. Like you I've seen and owned some great crosses.
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Erika L
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Username: erika

Post Number: 1806
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Interesting discussion. I have been lamenting the change in many breeds, too. One that particularly gets me is the Appaloosa. I grew up with an App. He was sturdy, hardy, and athletic--though not too personable. And mostly, he had SPOTS.

My neighbor has been showing and raising Appaloosas for several years now. I have yet to see a blanket, spot, or even a snowflake on any of them. They look like regular Quarterhorses, not even the same body as I remember Apps in the 60's and 70's. I asked her why she was showing Appaloosas instead of Quarterhorses and she said there was less competition!

She even markets her stallion without a spot to be seen.

I have been on the other side of the coin too. With a half Friesian, I have to be careful around Friesian folks, who think we are diluting them out of existence. They really frown on breeding out. in my case, I love the Friesian style, but they are not built for the riding I like to do, so a cross was the right balance. But I wouldn't want them to register mine as a pure Friesian by any means.
Erika
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Sara M
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Username: sdms

Post Number: 434
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Erika, what is your Friesian crossed with? Many years ago when I was still riding OPH and didn't have one much less a herd I was interested in a Quarter Horse Friesian cross. I fell in love with the Friesian breed when I was younger after watching the movie Ladyhawke but, like you say, they just weren't practical for what I wanted to do. While I was researching the cross I found that someone had started a Quariesian registry! They used to have a pretty nice website for the registry but looking tonight it doesn't seem to exist anymore. Hmm...I wonder if the registry is still around?
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Erika L
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Username: erika

Post Number: 1810
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 8:27 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sara, Cleo is out of an American Saddlebred mare. There was a registry for that combo too, called the Georgian Grande. Don't know if it's still a registry. I think someone just made it up!

I do see Friesian-crosses referred to as Georgians, and Quaresians, and Moresians! A woman I know has a beautiful near-leopard Friesian-App (a "Frappe"?? ha ha!). But the only "real" outcross registry I know of is the Friesian Sporthorse Registry.

Funny, Ladyhawk was my first memory of the breed, too. My sister and I went wild over them!

Sara W, I think there is a group dedicated to the old style Morgan. Don't remember who--maybe University of Vermont--I know they breed them and are known for certain lines. Can't remember which HA member is our resident Morgan expert. Maybe Jo Anne?

Erika

BTW, What is OPH?
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Sara M
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Username: sdms

Post Number: 435
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 9:41 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, Cleo is just gorgeous and you two make a good team. I think people make up breed registries to suite the current fad. But, to me that's better than changing the rules for registration in either of the parent breeds.

OPH=other people's horses I had a horse as a teenager that I could have easily died on. We moved out of state for my father's job and we sold JR. After that I rode other people's horses whenever I could until about 8 years ago. And it was all downhill from there!
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Sara Wolff
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Username: mrose

Post Number: 5133
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 12:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Erika, what is the point of having an Appy if you don't have spots? Kind of like a leopard without spots,or a zebra without stripes!

And, I think you're right; now that you've joggled my memory cells, I think U of V does (or at least did) do some preservation breeding of the old style Morgans.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not opposed to cross bred horses at all. After all, that's the way we got many of our breeds, and I've seen some great unregistered mixed horses. I just just feel strongly that breed traits need to be preserved and had always thought that was the main purpose of having a registry in the first place.

I'll bet a Morgan-Fresian cross is knock out georgous! There is a woman showing an Arabian Fresian cross somewhere in Calif. She was at a show in Del Mar. What a beautiful horse!But...it's not an Arab!

Anyone ever hear of the Pintabian? A lady up in ID tried to get that registry going for Arabian-Paint crosses. You see a lot of that cross as colored horses are really popular in Western and halter classes right now, but I haven't heard anything about that registry in a long time. The horses are just registerd as half Arabs for the most part.
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Sara Wolff
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Username: mrose

Post Number: 5134
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 12:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Just a disclaimer: I'm not responsible for mis-spelled words today. I'm a terrible speller anyway and often don't take time to go back and correct what I've written. But today I have an excuss; I was up half the night because we thought my dad had a heart attack (he's fine) then when I went to make coffee, we were OUT OF COFFEE!! I thought we had a ton in the freezer so didn't buy any. Turns out all we had was a little bit of some off brand crummy stuff you can't even taste!! So - even though it's after 10a.m., by brain still isn't totally turn on yet.
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Erika L
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Username: erika

Post Number: 1811
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 1:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I just got curious and looked online. No Quaresian registry. Evidently, it existed for about six months.

No Moresian registry.

The Friesian Sport Horse registry is now part of the Heritage Horse Registry.

Georgian Grande is still around, but has moved from American Saddlebred/Friesian crosses to any American Saddlebred/Draft crosses ( emphasis still on the Friesian cross, though...)

I think like Labradoodles, you can call your crossbreds anything you want, and anyone can start a registry. "Stay home and earn thousands!!" (Where's Billy Mays?)

Or of course, you can just be proud of a nice working horse of mixed parentage, lol.

Sara W, you're a better woman than I....can't even SEE before coffee. I have settled on Folger's Crystals and an instant hot water tap these days. No way could I manage to make a pot of coffee without a cup in me already!

Sara M, thanks for the compliments. Cleo is a looker. I'll attempt to upload a pic of her sire so you can see what came from him and the rest, of course, came from my little Sugar, the Saddlebred.
Erika

Highlander (full Friesian stallion)

Highlander
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Sara Wolff
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Username: mrose

Post Number: 5135
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 2:20 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

What a handsome fellow! A beautiful horse, is a beautiful horse,..!!!

I'm afraid Folgers just won't cut it, Erika! Lonnie and I have become coffee snobs! It has to be freshly ground and really dark roast. Lonnie even used to take a tiny little espresso maker with him back packing! LOL!
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Angie KJ
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Username: ajudson1

Post Number: 20
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 4:48 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

What?! No Moresians? And Tango is not a Registered Friesian Sporthorse anymore?!

I thought the "Sporthorse" part of it was in many breed names just to clarify it was 2 breeds? Didn't have to be 50/50; Tango is out of a Moresian..well, guess not if they don't exist any more!

So among his other issues, he don't have a permanent name for his breed? Geez, don't tell him that, puh-leeze!!

It's sad IMHO, what is happening to the breeds. Even 15 years ago when I used to watch shows, I could count on one hand the number of Quarter Horses that looked like Quarter Horses. One bay stallion stays in my memory, he was built like tank, perfect personality, but the taller horses beat him most times. I loved his look!

The SaddleBred I had 20 years ago was sold to us because he was only 15.2, and wasn't tall enough for the show ring. Nice solid build. Last time I saw SB's, seems they got taller, but lost their butts!

I agree, a beautiful horse is a beautiful horse, BUT, can that horse do a job, stay sound, stay sane? I'd take an ugly sound & sane horse any day over a thing of beauty that don't hold up.

Off my mounting steps now.
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Karen Nolte
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Username: morg1

Post Number: 194
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 4:57 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm not going to say that I'm a Morgan expert, but I do own and breed Morgans. UVM Morgan farm does preserve the Morgan breed, but I believe many of them can be traced back and you will find TB in their pedigree. Mostly because the UVM farm started with what was left of the US Government Morgan breeding program, and to give their Morgans size they bred to TB. Another foundation type Morgan would be the Lippit Morgan. The Lippit Morgan was started by a guy (you guessed it with the last name of Lippit) who wanted to preserve the Justin Morgan look. He bred horses with the most crosses to the first Morgan, Figure. Today Lippit Morgans have the highest percentage of the original Morgan's blood. I won't say that I'm 100% right on the above, but I'm pretty sure I'm at least close.

And...I too agree with most of you about the wide range of types in the breeds. Now we have 17 hand tall Morgans! We were the little breed. I think my tallest Morgan is 14.3, and I like to think that I'm pretty darn close to the breed standard. I wish all breeders and the judges of the breeds you all mentioned above would look again at their breed standards.

And...what is with the cross bred dogs? I thought they were muts. Do get me wrong I love my 2 muts, but aren't those the dogs that are supposed to be an ooops.
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Sara M
Member
Username: sdms

Post Number: 436
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 5:16 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Not just mutts, Karen; DESIGNER mutts!
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DianE
Member
Username: scooter

Post Number: 4453
Registered: 9-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 5:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I was going along the highway today and saw a big sign up advertising Labradoodles. I thought what the He$$ is a labradoodle, then it occured to me it must be a lab-poodle mix, I suppose....that mix doesn't even sound good but I have never seen one.
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose

Post Number: 5136
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 8:03 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

My cousin has a Labradoodle and she's quite proud of it, although I think the dog's a little scruffy looking. Of course, she's an older dog. I saw a larger one while visiting my son and it was really nice looking. Both dogs are very sweet. My cousin said they are good for people that would like a Lab but have allergies as they don't shed and are pretty non-allergenic. Evidently they go for as much (or more) than a purebred!
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DianE
Member
Username: scooter

Post Number: 4455
Registered: 9-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 8:54 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

HMMMM we have a registered male Lab ...maybe I should get me a female Poodle. I can hear what hubby would say...

They don't shed???? That in itself makes them invaluable!
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leslie645
Member
Username: leslie1

Post Number: 856
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 9:09 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Karen
When I went to the Sana show last year I sat next to a lady that was a huge lipett fan. She was in the market for an old fashion driving style morgan. said she was having trouble finding one. I didnt know if was because they were rare(?) or she just couldnt find the right one.

Erika! Folgers??
BTW beautiful baby daddy! now we know where Cleo gets her looks. Gorgeous!
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Angie KJ
Member
Username: ajudson1

Post Number: 21
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 30, 2009 - 10:47 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Erika,

I missed the instant coffee...YUCK...you must be desperate to drink that!

Ummm...they do make coffee makers that you program the night before, so your coffee is hot and ready when you get up!

We have the Hamilton Beach Brew Station which you get coffee out of by pushing your cup against it. No pot to pour.

Except ours leaks; can't use the programable feature.

O.k., nowwww, back to the program.
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Sharon
Member
Username: shanson

Post Number: 178
Registered: 5-2004
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 1, 2009 - 10:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Seems like most of the breeds have a growing subgroup of "foundation" breeders focused on restoring/preserving the old-style standards. I think that's a good thing.

In the case of QH, thoroughbreds have been influential on the breed practically from the beginning. Not such a bad thing in my mind. Mixing in some thoroughbred blood produces some real all-around performance horses. My mare's a registered QH--Doc Bar/Impressive bred. There's a lot of thoroughbred in that mix. She definitely looks QH, but doesn't have the bulldog build. In fact, she harkens back to the Iberian influence on the breed. Nice all-arounder with QH mind and great athletic ability.

I know what you mean, though, about the 17-hand Appendix QHs that are thoroughbreds in all but name. It always surprises me to see them, but at least they're separated out into Appendix category.
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leslie645
Member
Username: leslie1

Post Number: 857
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 1, 2009 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I think the 17h appendix s a beautiful animal and love that it has a place as XQH...but I dont think they should ever be allowed to register them as QH due to merit. The ROM thing is what is weird to me. We have all these, what I call hunter bred "Qh's", that are things of beauty, but their foals are basically TB and being registered pure QH.
I guess if an ROM X/QH matches *type* then maybe Ok. But not the 16h+ Tb looking ones. Leave them and their foals as X regardless of merit.
But thats just my opinion
L
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose

Post Number: 5141
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 1, 2009 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm glad I don't have to deal with the issue of Appendex QH! I'll bet it's a "thorny" issue.We have enough problems within our own breed. :>) I know the QH registry claims to be the fastest growning registry in the U.S. I think I now know why! I think the original QH,Morgans, etc. which were developed in this country should be preserved as breeds.

The Appys are really a US breed, developed by tribes in what is now the Idaho area, if I remember right. There are other distinct American breeds, also. The Florida Cracker and the Rocky Mountain. Wasn't the Plantation Walker developed specifically for use in our southern states? Of course, I'm not sure at what point genetically an animal becomes a separate breed instead of a "half" something or a "mutt." I would guess when over several generations it can reproduce itself? How many US breeds are there? Of course there's all the other breeds in the world, also!
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monica Quinn
Member
Username: mjq1

Post Number: 7
Registered: 4-2002
Posted on Thursday, Jul 2, 2009 - 8:16 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I breed Paint horses, www.touchwoodstables.com. Here are the rules. For a horse to be a registered APHA one of the parents of the horse MUST be a registered Paint. Then, you are allowed to breed the registered Paint to either; Another registered Paint (not pinto), a registered Thoroughbred, or a registered Quarter horse, Appendix is fine. The color rules only apply as to the 'type' of Paint you have. All the horses in question must be registered and one parent must be APHA for the foal to be registered APHA. Hope this helps. All the old rules are gone now.}
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Sara M
Member
Username: sdms

Post Number: 437
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Friday, Jul 3, 2009 - 9:55 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Okay, so while we're on the subject, what are the thoughts on this? This is a horse registered in the AQHA that has supposedly been parentage verified and DNA tested twice. Even with the white rule they allowed him to be registered AND he's remaining a stallion. I have a pretty strong opinion here but I'll save it until I have more time.

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/reminic+in+spots

And here's a picture of him at 4 years old:

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Angie KJ
Member
Username: ajudson1

Post Number: 26
Registered: 6-2009
Posted on Friday, Jul 3, 2009 - 10:07 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

If you asked me what breeding he was, I'd say half Arab and half Appaloosa. Of course what do I know?
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leslie645
Member
Username: leslie1

Post Number: 869
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, Jul 3, 2009 - 10:42 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Whoop... thair it is!
So I thought the white rule was for when the LP accidently sneaks up. LOL
I am against this. (not cuz hes not beautiful or anything) But not a QH ...I see Appy/arab.

Crikey
L
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Erika L
Member
Username: erika

Post Number: 1816
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, Jul 3, 2009 - 10:45 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

They need to trade this guy in for one of my neighbor's solid chestnut Appaloosas! I think the wrong rooster got into the henhouse somehow...
Erika
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leslie645
Member
Username: leslie1

Post Number: 870
Registered: 8-2006
Posted on Friday, Jul 3, 2009 - 10:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yes the wrong rooster did get into the hen house...back in the 1940's(I believe). They made the 'white rule' to fix that, so to speak.
I cant remember but I think there was breeders that had solid Appys in their herd or something.
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose

Post Number: 5144
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Friday, Jul 3, 2009 - 11:08 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Looks Appy Arab to me, too! He's really cute, but he's not QH. Can he be registered Appy? I know nothing about their breed requirements. If one parent was full Arab, he can be registered half Arab.
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