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Message |
    
David Looker
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 22, 1999 - 3:44 pm: |   |
Hello all..... Is it common to get a second opinion from another farrier? I have a twelve year old Arab gelding that has very little heel both front and hind. He is very active when stalled so I try to keep him in pasture as much as possible. As the result of his activity in the stall (pacing) and low heels he has developed a chronic sacroiliac problem. I currently have him on Methocarbamol for back pain. But I am not sure if I am doing the right thing with his feet. I would like to get a second opinion from another farrier since I think part of the problem is related to the shoeing. I ve consulted with my Vet and he suggested some changes but my farrier does not seem to agree. Any suggestions |
The Advisor Vet, RN Oglesby DVM
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 23, 1999 - 6:25 am: | |
Looks like the perfect time for a third opinion since you have two professionals disagreeing. I have to admit I have never seen low heels resulting in chroninc si. disease nor have I seen any such correlation made in the literature. I mean, how do you make this connection?
Of course, improper foot trimming always needs to be addressed and that is where I would concentrate the third opinion.
DrO |
David Looker
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 23, 1999 - 7:26 am: | |
Dr. O
The low heels are just a part of the problem. That was just a guess on my part. I think that a good part of the problem is pacing when he's in his stall and pivoting off the one side. I ve tried to address that by giving him more pasture time. However my farrier is telling me that putting on hind shoes with a 2 degree lift on the back will allleviate some of the problem. I think thats to radical all at one time. Ergo the disagreement between myself and the two professionals. Thanks |
Teresa A
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 24, 1999 - 10:51 am: | |
Dr O,
could the problem in the back come from a long toe rather than a low heel (i.e., too long a breakover point?).
Teresa |
The Advisor Vet, RN Oglesby DVM
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 24, 1999 - 3:14 pm: | |
Your point is a good one: horses with low heels frequently have a breakover point that is farther forward in front of the frog. Just increasing the angle of the foot helps bring bach the breakover. This "long toe" will make forward motion more difficult and concentrates the stress on the lower joints, suspensory, and flexor muscles and tendons. Now the flexor muscles attach to the pelvis and the pelvis attaches to....you get the idea. You can make a case where this might be possible, I just don't see it in practice or if it is there, I do not recognise it. I do see tendon-suspensory problems that relate to low heels-long toes however. I also see lots of horses with this conformation who have no problems but earnestly believe that everyone of them's gait will improve, smoother and less effort, when corrected.
If you have two professionals telling you the same thing and you get a third opinion and it is different are you going to believe the two who you have previously intrusted the care of your horse too or a semi-stranger?
DrO |
David Looker
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 26, 1999 - 3:21 pm: | |
The problem is... the two professionals disagree. The vet seems to thinks that the shoeing could be adjusted i.e. bigger shoe with less lift and toe, while the farrier thinks its a behavior problem i.e. pacing in the stall, fence walking etc. The farrier even suggested tying the horse up when he' in his stall to keep him from moving around! I have asked my vet if it was okay to have the farrier call him to get his feedback, but so far my farrier hasn't made that attempt. It seems rather frustrating when the farrier won't work with the vet. |
The Advisor Vet, RN Oglesby DVM
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 27, 1999 - 7:10 am: | |
I see, I misunderstood your last post. I do not think the shoeing has any affect on the behavior and the two problems should be looked at seperatly. Tie up a horse that paces his stall and you may provoke another stall vice. Try studing the diagrams on proper trimming and maybe you can decide whether you need to add a wedge pad or not.
DrO |
Buffy
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 2, 1999 - 7:48 pm: | |
DAVID,
It seems to me that the shoer needs to be replaced. I have had a number of different farriers and finally found one that is not only
great with my horses but will also gladly consult w/my vet if I need him too. Good luck |
David Looker
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 24, 1999 - 10:58 am: | |
Another complication from low heels. My horse came up lame over the weekend when I was doing some light work. I called my vet and he diagnosed the problem as a bruised heel. He pulled the shoe and put an easy boot on and said to give him two to three weeks rest. Are easy boots useful for a horse with low heels particularly with a bruised heel? Has experience shown that they can be left on over a specific time period? Can improper trimming or shoeing cause heel bruises? |
Tamara Putman
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 24, 1999 - 3:40 pm: | |
I'm not sure if the easy boots will help with a bruised heel or not, but I don't leave them on all the time.
Easyboots are different from a medicine boot, and I have used medicine boot for a stall bound horse to medicines. They are not used for riding or any kind of exercise, but the are good for protecting a foot while in the stall. It's too easy for dirt and stuff to get into an Easyboot to just leave it on all the time. I only use them when riding on rocky ground and take them off immediately afterward. The longest I have left them on was 18 hours and even using the dirt skirt that you can get with them, there was still sand and stuff in the boot. |
The Advisor Vet, RN Oglesby DVM
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 24, 1999 - 6:52 pm: | |
What is the purpose for the Easy Boot, so you can ride with the bruise?
Most of your questions will depend on where the heel is bruised. Is this a solar bruise in the heel region, also called a corn, or is the actual heel bruised? Are both sides bruised or just one side? How lame is your horse and what was the evidence for the bruise. Is the lameness changing with time or staying about the same?
DrO |
David Looker
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 1999 - 7:58 am: | |
The purpose of the easy boot is to protect the bruised area since the shoe was pulled. The bruise is solar and located on the inside of the left front foot in the heel area even though the horse appeared to be lame on the right side when I trotted him off. Just pressing on the area with a thumb caused discomfort along with some blood in the area. The horse was lame enough that it was readily noticeable to a novice associate. The diagnosis was made on Monday and I haven't seen a change yet. Hope this helps |
The Advisor Vet, RN Oglesby DVM
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 26, 1999 - 8:04 am: | |
I don't think the low heels effect whether the easy boot will help or not, of course if you had wedge pads on you have lost this support to the flexor tendons. If you need to protect the bottom of your horses hoof and you can't put a shoe on an Easy Boot is one solution. Just be careful it stays dry inside of it. Some of these heel bruises can be quite frustrating. If the lameness is remarkable, it localizes dependably with the hoof testers, there is heat in the foot, or the lameness is worsening, I will cut them out till they bleed. I think they heal faster this way.
DrO |
audrey n macri
| | Posted on Saturday, Aug 28, 1999 - 4:48 pm: | |
Hi all,
My mare developed what I THINK may be thrush but after reading some other messages, I think may be Canker (sp?).
Her frogs were somewhat dry so I applied Rainmaker all summer long (we had a bad, bad drought here in Northern NJ). We finally got rain last week (may be contributor???) anyway, within the past couple of days her frogs are peeling away, are soft and mushy, and underneath they are grayish-whitish in color. There is also a soft, chalky buildup on the soles that when I scraped them off they smelled pretty bad. The best way to describe her poor frogs is that the tissue underneath resembles a rotting sponge, you know where it just starts coming apart.
Can anyone advise me if we have Canker or Thrush? What would be the best treatment? I picked out her hooves today and applied some iodine. I don't know what else to do and I don't know if it's serious enough to call the vet.
Also, is she rideable? She did not appear to be lame but I don't know if it's okay for her to be ridden with an infection.
Please, please, can someone help?
Thanks!!!!!!!!!! |
Emily French
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 29, 1999 - 12:25 am: | |
Audry- What you describe all sounds like pretty
normal reactions of the hoof to an abrupt weather
change. The chalky stuff is just the dead sole,
your farrier pares this out when he trims the
hoof. The pealing of the frog, again, my horses do
that EVERY time the weather changes seasons. As
for the smell there is usually an nasty ordor when
there is a lot of dead sole on the hoof the is not
being naturally brushed off due to soft footing or
haveing shoes that protect the sole from the
ground. As for is you need to call a vet, that
can only be your decision, but it sounds like your
horse is just due for a trim. As for ridding
him...well is he lame? Tender? That should be your
best indicator. In my experience with thrush you
can smell it before you even pick the foot up, and
I have only seen it on horse that have been
standing a long time in poopy mud. I am not a vet
and if it realy bugs you or make you uneasy it is
best to err on the side of caution. best of luck.
Emily |
audrey n macri
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 29, 1999 - 9:49 am: | |
Emily,
Thanks so much. I feel a lot better now. I didn't realize that frogs could change their size and constitution so quickly!!! All I can remember is my horror at looking at
a mushy frog that changed somewhat overnight!
What was really weird is that her frogs had been so dry that I was paying extra attention to them, and I thouhgt maybe I had put on too much RainMaker!
Oh well, thanks again, now I can relax about it. |
The Advisor Vet, RN Oglesby DVM
| | Posted on Sunday, Aug 29, 1999 - 11:20 am: | |
Audrey,
I would suggest if you have any question about the problem you need to have it evaluated by your vet or farrier, just in case. Emily's expereinces are pretty common: the majority of the frog mass peeling away during the change is seasons to the cooler parts of the year, but you should have a fairly slick and shiny frog underneath though it will be soft for a time. If it is canker it will be soft and cheesy right on down to where it bleeds.
DrO |
Claudette C. Dumont (Madame)
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2000 - 9:17 pm: | |
Hi David,
If you have access to another farrier... or many other... consult them... We used to have a farrier that stuck a degree pad on everything! Many of us (including myself...) lost a horse to his hands... From what I know now... get another advice... I my case the vet and the farrier agreed and I didn't know enough to go against...
The wonderful farrier we have now once told me he sees no point in putting a degree pad on any horse, given time and right shoeing the horse may stay a bit underslung but have enough heel to get him around!
I'd better be safe than sorry... from what I read on the farriers internet sites pointed at on this site... low heel are bound to devellop into problems...
Bye |
Sylvia Pemberton
Member
Username: Sylvy
Post Number: 19
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 2, 2006 - 5:48 pm: | |
Our older mare has hooves that now resemble pancakes and I'm now concerned about my 10 year old whose hoof angles do not look right. Our farrier is the NICEST guy, (but that does not make him a good farrier) I think I should get another opinion and if I need to make a change, how do I do it diplomatically? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16044
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 4, 2006 - 7:50 am: | |
Discuss the problems with your current farrier and if he really has no solutions, tell him you would like to seek another opinion and invite him to participate, after all it sounds like he needs the education.
DrO |
Melissa Boschwitz
Member
Username: Amara
Post Number: 124
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 4, 2006 - 12:24 pm: | |
sylvia, it would probably also help if you had the time to do some research yourself and learn about what a foot should look like, and why... this will make your job of talking to your current farrier and talking to a new prosepective farrier a lot easier..
are your horses shod or barefoot? |
