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Penner (Penner)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2002 - 3:24 pm: |   |
My horse is a 28 yo QH/TB gelding. I still ride him & in fact, am able to team rope on him 1-2x a week. & he still has that fast 'cowpony' walk.
In the past month or so, I noticed he was having problems chewing hay (it used to take 1 hour to eat a flake, now its ~24h).
In the past year he has been steadily eating w/o problems(no wgt loss or teeth problems):
AM: 8# bermuda pellets + 1 flake (4#) grass hay
PM: 6# bermuda pellets + 8# equine Sr.
+ Clovite.
I had the vet come out & look at him last yr for routine checkup, & he said do not float him anymore(manually or with the new electronic file) as he is too old & doesn't have much teeth left.
This year, now I have this problem! He hasn't lost any weight (yet) but I'm getting nervous about it as I have owned older horses before & once they lose the weight, it seems just about impossible to put it back on.
I also am a little wary about using more Eq Sr, as he road foundered 4.5 yrs ago, pretty badly (but I had a good shoer, vet & with lots of meticulous attention - I just about lived in his stall for 6 months) he recovered, altho he still wears special shoes.
I don't know what to do! This horse still has lots of life in him, yet his teeth are going, & I guess I'm so afraid to lose my buddy & my teacher!
Anyone have any luck with equine dentists? Could they do anything?
I'm going to stop feeding him hay (choke risk) & bump the AM pellets up to 12#, & wet the pellets down too.
I don't have a lawnmower (to mulch the hay), & I live in a desert, so no pasture.
Sorry for the long post, & thank you all in advance for your help. |
Melissa Webster (Mwebster)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2002 - 3:48 pm: | |
My husband's 24yr old gelding is getting shorter on tooth too. We use a very expert equine dentist -- not our vet -- and his recommendation is to have the horse checked twice a year, and do the absolute minimum to keep off hooks etc. and also check for any abcesses or gum problems. (It doesn't help the horse use what tooth he's got left if he locks up on one side with hooks, or has something sharp that's going to lacerate his cheek.) Our dentist uses a little tranq too (even though the horse is calm about dental work and has never needed it for simple floats), so he can really examine all the way back, under the tongue, etc. Might make sense for you to get a good dentist to have a look at your horse. |
D. Hembroff (Debh)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2002 - 5:22 pm: | |
Hmmm
You mentioned choke.
I have a old horse with cronic choke. Hay has never been a problem, grains and pelleted feed however have been a huge problem, especially now that his teeth are worn out and he can not chew very well. (He has had problems with choke since he was a young horse. I think this all started once apon a time with the horse being hungry and trying to gobble grain that got stuck).
I think it is much more difficult for them to gobble hay whole. My guy spends hours picking his hay one blade at a time but, he can not eat enough to keep himself alive at this rate. So these days the majority of his diet is very well soaked pellets & beat pulp with some canola oil thrown in for good measure. (Is your horse quidding? Mine never has).
From my own experience, what I would suggest is, if it aint broke don't fix it. Feeding a old horse a strait mush diet is not all that easy. I would let him eat as much roughage as he can and then suppliment as needed.
The other thing is you may not need to float his teeth yearly but, they should be checked. My horse still gets the odd hook and the odd rotten tooth that needs to be pulled. I'd check again with your vet about this. At our barn we try to have a dentistry day once a year or so, then the Vet can check them all out and just float those that need it.
Regards
D. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2002 - 6:25 am: | |
Penner,
I agree the recommendation to "no more floats" is not sensible and may have been a misunderstanding. These older horses with irregular teeth develop all types of sharp areas that need specific attention. Also the horse needs to be checked for loose teeth. Older horses can retain them and they get quite painful to chew on. The bottom line is you need someone out to do a good exam on that mouth.
DrO |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jan 16, 2002 - 10:32 pm: | |
As usual, DrO is right on the money. Penner, you NEED to get your horse checked by an equine dental specialist - preferably a DVM who specializes in equine dentistry or a dental tech who works with a DVM. Your horse needs to be examined with a full mouth speculum because that is the only way the very back teeth can be checked. Older horses especially are prone to loose and infected teeth - which, as DrO posted, can be very painful as well as a source of infection for the entire body.
My 23 year old gelding, DJ, has had two infected molars which my DVM dental specialist had to pull. DJ would have been in a world of trouble if we hadn't had someone who could deal with this  Now, he's back to chomping carrots, alfalfa cubes and eating hay just like he always did. He doesn't seem to miss those teeth at all, but he sure was miserable while they were in there.
Having his teeth taken care of properly is one of THE most important things you can do for your senior horse. I know from experience 
Suzy and DJ ~ who still has a beautiful smile  |
Penner (Penner)
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 17, 2002 - 7:49 am: | |
I had the vet out today. He drew some routine blood & is going to check his mouth under sedation (after the blood test results) on Friday 1/18. Will let you all know what happened.
Thanks for all your responses! |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 18, 2002 - 10:00 pm: | |
That's super, Penner We'll be anxiously awaiting the results!
Suzy |
Penner (Penner)
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2002 - 4:23 pm: | |
Hi,
The vet came out, sedated him & checked his mouth. He still has all his teeth, but found 1 semi loose one, which he pulled. Another one that was left was just a 'nubbin' so he pulled that one too. Both were on the L side, which was the worse side. He floated him too a little to get rid of some sharp edges.
The CBC & CHEM panel were WNL.
He gave him 10D of antibiotics (Bactrim) & 3 D of bute. I wash his mouth 2x/D with warm salt water.
Now, only if they had that mouthwash peppermint flavour, LOL!!
I stopped the hay, as he too felt there might be a choking risk.
Now, for my next act ('Murphy' lives in my backyard)...
I just discovered my dog has cutaneous coccidiomycosis w/ an open weeping wound. He is a house dog & this wound had been open 1 day before I could get him to the vet, so I have cocci spores all over my house!!! He had no symptoms.
This whole week we have been fumigating Hart Senate Bldg II with 1:10 bleach, & washing EVERYTHING!!
So until this wound heals, I have to keep him in a kennel outside (actually, I never used it before, the people who owned the home before built it, its pretty nice at least).
My dog actually had pulmonary cocci 6 yrs ago & was TX'd 1 yr with ketoconazole, it seemed successfully. But now we are back to the SOS for a yr & lo dose for life. Oh well.. |
Mickey Corn
Member
Username: Mickey01
Post Number: 21
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 - 2:50 pm: | |
I have a 32yo arab mare that only has two teeth in both sides of her upper jaws. She had stopped eating because of an infected tooth which was just removed. The vet says she needs to gain about 50 pounds. Before she stopped eating, I was feeding her 6# of Eq Senior, 1.5# alfalfa pellets, 1.5# of Ultimate Finish, 1# of rice bran, 1# of soaked beet pulp, 2 cups of oil, and free feed alfalfa cubes. She has trouble eating alfalfa cubes unless they are soaked. In this weather, they freeze before she can eat enough to keep her weight up. I've heard of chopped hay that is only about 2" long and packed in 50" bags. However, I can't find a source. Has anyone ever heard of this? |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 479
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 - 3:19 pm: | |
When I lived in Northern California we used to feed something called "all in one" which was chopped alfalfa molassas with vitamins and minerals added. I fed it to the older horses and they loved it. I think it may have been made by a local mill. I know there are other similar products out there. Maybe contact some of the feed mills like Purena, Nutrena, and some of the mills in your area, if there are any.
Also, just a thought, but if you can't find a ready made product, I wonder if a leaf mulcher could be used to chop your own alfalfa? |
Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert
Post Number: 54
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 - 3:28 pm: | |
Seminole Feeds make a chopped hay mixture(chaff) that might suit your needs! I have fed it to my older horses with ease in the winter to supplement their hay intake...think it is called "show chaff"! I've just mixed it in with their wet feed, however it seems like you may not be able to do that because of your temperatures! Maybe you could just provide it in a separate bucket for your mare. |
Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 306
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Dec 28, 2004 - 8:31 pm: | |
Hi another is Dengi hay. You can get mixed or Alfalfa. You should be able to get it easily. It comes in 50 pound bags |
Elizabeth Donahue
Member
Username: Paul303
Post Number: 451
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Dec 29, 2004 - 9:16 pm: | |
I fed my gelding ( who had no molars at all), Kwik, a pelleted whole feed with Focus Weight, a supplement for hard keeping horses ( I forget the manufacturer - Life Data maybe? ), that worked wonders in the last years of my 38 yr old gelding's life. In winter, the water we added was very warm, and we added enough to form a virtual "mush". We also fed him 3 times a day, because he did much better on smaller portions fed more often throughout the day. Corn oil was added to each feeding. |
Mickey Corn
Member
Username: Mickey01
Post Number: 22
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 4, 2005 - 3:02 pm: | |
Thanks for the input! I've ordered some Dengi hay, which should be delivered by next week. If she will eat it, I will see if my feed store can order it in bulk for me. The shipping charge is more than the cost of the hay. They're also sending me their Senior formula to try. I'll let you know how it works! |
Virginia Equine Research, LLC
Member
Username: Vaeqres
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2005 - 3:12 pm: | |
Hi. The Horse Kwik that Elizabeth mentioned is a Nutrena product, so it should be fairly available. They also have a timothy/alfalfa blend cube called Bio-Cubes, which is fairly soft and can be broken apart by hand if your horse has no front teeth either. The benefit is that the blend of timothy and alfalfa has a far better calcium/phos. balance than alfalfa cubes alone. If you serve them dry, your horse will salivate naturally, which helps prevent ulcers. Saliva has a neutralizing effect on stomach acids and nature intended that they make and swallow lots of it. And the stem-length is like already-been-chewed hay. My horses love them and don't waste any. 5 pounds of cubes is just like a 5 pound flake of top quality blended hay. |
Mickey Corn
Member
Username: Mickey01
Post Number: 25
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2005 - 5:28 pm: | |
I haven't gotten the Dengi Hay or Senior formula from Seminole Feeds yet. They should be delivered any day now. I'll ask my feed store about Horse Kwik and the Bio-Cubes. I'll keep you posted. Thanks! |
Mickey Corn
Member
Username: Mickey01
Post Number: 26
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 18, 2005 - 12:16 pm: | |
Just a quick update. The Dengi Hay finally arrived, and my arab is eating it. I won't say she "loves" it, but at least she is eating. Hopefully she'll now be able to pick up some weight in spite of the weather. Thanks for all the help! |
Dawn Drummond
New Member
Username: dawndnj
Post Number: 1
Registered: 2-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 - 1:41 pm: | |
I have a 30-something Percheron cross who is missing many of his teeth. He does not do well on hay, alfalfa, or any other refined or finely cut grass mixtures. I have found that he does well on Blue Seal's Hay Stretcher. It is a pelletized form of hay. I give him 4-6 scoops nightly with his feed watered down. His feed is a mix of Blue Seal Vintage Senior, Triple Crown Complete and a small scoop of beet pulp. This combination put weight back on (I bought him severely malnourished) and has maintained his weight since then. I highly recommend anyone trying to keep weight on an older horse to try Blue Seal Hay Stretcher. You can also use this for any other horse in your herd. It can be a great supplement when hay isn't as available. |
Christine Holmes Bukowski
Member
Username: canyon28
Post Number: 157
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 - 2:21 pm: | |
You should also use vegatable oil to put weight on any horse that is thin. Start with half a cup on the pellets, working up to two cups a day after a couple of weeks. I bought huge jugs of soy oil at Sams club, costco would also have the same thing. My stallion, Bill the Cutter, lived on Nutrena senior, rolled grain, hay pellets, oil, and screened hay leaves for over 4 years. He had no back teeth and could not even graze grass, it would just ball up in his mouth. He was smart enough to never try to eat stems, but I screened all his hay through a plastic screen with about 1/2 inch openings anyway. He would meticulously pic through the hay and avoid any sharp stem pieces I would find them all in his feed tub every morning. He really loved being able to eat hay, I think it had been years since he was given anything but pellets. he didnt really like the Purina, or beet pulp, I think Purina is mostly beet pulp or something, and after he had gained some weight, he refused to eat it or the beet pulp anymore. i mixed the rolled grain and all the pellets together and fed him about 3 gallons of this a day plus the hay, which amounted to about three flakes of screened alfalfa hay per day. If your horse has a kidney or liver problem you can buy timothy pellets from Standley feeds. Sometimes I covered the grain and pellets with warm water, mainly through the winter, other times he seemed to like them dry. Giving an older horse warm water on their grain is a good idea in winter anyway, because they need all the water you can get them to consume. He was a breeding stallion right up until the week before he died of a heart attack or a stroke. He was 27 when I got him and 31 when he died. |
