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| Author |
Message |
    
Becky Little (Beezle)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 12, 2002 - 1:48 pm: |   |
I have two different colored buckets at my barn that I use for water when I have the horses out in large dirt pens (to keep them off pasture at times) - bright blue, and dark green. I have noticed something very strange - bees and bugs seem to gravitate to the blue buckets and they leave the green ones alone, even when I have buckets of both colors out at the same time. After the horses are out for a day, each blue bucket usually has 5-10 bees in it, floating on the water, where the green buckets have none. This has happened consistently without fail, regardless of where I place the buckets. Not sure if it is something to do with the reflection of the water in the different colors or what. I am going to only use green buckets outside from now on!
Anyone ever notice anything similar? Sounds like a good science project experiment. |
Dr. Carol Artlett (Cartlett)
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 13, 2002 - 12:51 pm: | |
This is because bees see and are attracted to ultra violet light which at the blue end of the spectrum. They most likely think it is an enormous flower. |
Mary E Adams (Ntucket)
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 13, 2002 - 1:18 pm: | |
I love these science questions. Of course the next question is: which bucket freezes faster - one with bees or without? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 14, 2002 - 6:09 am: | |
What a great observation, Becky and thanks for the thought Dr.C.
Mary, as the bees will add solutes to the water that depress the freezing point, without bees would be faster unless the water they were in was cooler to begin with. We could study which species of bees depress the freezing point the most...nah.....I bet there has been a government funded study already.
DrO |
Kim Fotter (Fpony)
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 14, 2002 - 6:42 am: | |
UUUUmmmm,
I see a flaw in this study...if it is cold enough to freeze water where are you going to find bees to tolerate the temp? (Couldn't resist!)  |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 14, 2002 - 9:04 am: | |
Why it is obvious, you keep them frozen until the winter comes, but you must thaw them before putting them in the water to be sure they don't influence the results.
DrO |
Dr. Carol Artlett (Cartlett)
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 14, 2002 - 1:10 pm: | |
Ahhh! Yes, but how many bees will it take to make a difference in the freezing rate of the water (1, 10, 100, 1000...?)
You would also have to start off with purified water to obtain the best statistics.
Also the flaw is freezing the bees before hand as that will destroy tissues and release more solutes in to the water than that which would be released if the bees had only drowned, which was the original question
Do we have adequate controls?
Require
1. Bucket of water with bees
Controls:
2. Bucket of water with no bees
3. Bucket of water with something else the size of a bee say a lead sinker used in fishing (just in case it is the body size not the solutes that make the difference)
So although the experiment has been modified a little bit, usable info will be obtained.
Start collecting bees!!!
Carol |
Sharon M Roboski (Roboski)
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 15, 2002 - 4:24 pm: | |
OK
How many others smiled gleefully when they saw DR O had waded into this?? Just KNEW it would be good before you even opened the thread?? C'mon, guys - this is great! So many weird minds, so little time...... |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 16, 2002 - 7:35 pm: | |
Liquid nitrogen freezing within an adequate medium would circumvent the tissue destruction, I could keep them in my frozen semen tank! But I hope I don't get them mixed up, a 100 lb foal with wings and a stinger is not my idea of "good genetics".
DrO |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 17, 2002 - 1:01 pm: | |
Okay, DrO - you ARE going to upload pictures of the results, right? 
Suzy |
Jordana Meisner (Presario)
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 17, 2002 - 3:34 pm: | |
LMAO!! Sharon, of COURSE I snickered because I KNEW this topic would attract Dr O like, well, a bee to honey LOLOL :-D |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 - 7:05 am: | |
When I get one I will definately upload the pictures.
DrO |
Dr. Carol Artlett (Cartlett)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 - 3:22 pm: | |
C'mon DrO, messing around with genetics is fun. Just think between us...the first flying bee horse. I have the tissue culture facility, you the semen and bees.
Getting back to the original question...
The medium the bees are frozen in will contribute additional solutes to the water. And tissue damage still occurs with freezing even if you use medium, it is just reduced. In most instances the number of viable cells are adequate for what ever the procedure is such as insemination or regenerating a cell line, etc.
Another control is needed:
A bucket of water with freezer medium.
Incidentally DrO what is the freezer medium (fetal bovine serum and DMSO)?
Carol |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 - 9:10 pm: | |
You are right, the medium throws in another variable. Lets freeze them dry, and I am not sure the tissue destruction from the freezing invalidates the results. When bees die in the water bucket autolysis begins almost instantly. It strikes me the effect of this might be similar but much greater than that caused by the cellular destruction caused by nitrogen freezing, even freezing dry. Therefore useful results might still be obtained. Of course experiments need to be conducted to test this hypothesis. To bee or not to bee, that is the question....
DrO |
Jordana Meisner (Presario)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 18, 2002 - 10:18 pm: | |
"To bee or not to bee...." OMG! Groan, moan, boo, hiss, *rolling on the floor in agony* Ack Dr O is losing it! :D |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 - 6:23 am: | |
Too freeze or not to freeze, is that the question?
DrO |
Helen Weedon (Cara2)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 - 8:36 am: | |
Ok, its no good, I've got to join in the fun
Dr O - here in the UK we have to have a Home Office Licence to use animals in scientific experiments AND numbers have to be kept to a minimum. Do you have the same regulations in the US and if so, will you be applying for the licence on our behalf???
ps. On a genuinely scientific note, I was once doing my washing on a camping trip and put my clothes out to dry on a line. An hour later my yellow t-shirt was just covered in insects while the white shirts didn't have a bug between them. They must have thought it was a huge flower!! |
Dr. Carol Artlett (Cartlett)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 - 10:36 am: | |
Hey, this is a geniune scientific question!!
Yes, there are regulations here as well and it is an absolute headache to try to use animals in research. They're expensive to house with a running cost of about 20 cents/mouse/day so if you have a hundreds then the cost add up. I try to avoid mice or fruit flies for research, not because I am against it, it just adds unnecessarily to the paperwork I already have.
So what sort of bugs were on your shirt? Bees? Wasps?
Hmmmm! Maybe we need a yellow bucket and water.
C. |
Elizabeth Donahue (Paul303)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 19, 2002 - 11:37 am: | |
Helen: You probably need to hang some blue buckets out on the line with your clothes. |
Helen Weedon (Cara2)
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 21, 2002 - 8:49 am: | |
Carol - I think they were what we call thunder bugs, small insects which are more like mini-beetles than say a housefly or mozzie. Oh yes, I know plenty about animals in medical experiments as I work for a University with a med school. What I can't believe is the cost of buying lab animals. Last time I looked rabbits were GBP 30.00. The weirdest things though are athymic nude rats - they look like aliens or something !!
Elizabeth - I'll put my pegs in the blue bucket if I need to leave it hanging up too |
Leah Hinnefeld (Belhaven)
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 21, 2002 - 11:37 am: | |
I think every single one of you has completely gone round the bend! |
Dr. Carol Artlett (Cartlett)
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 21, 2002 - 1:01 pm: | |
Leah,
And that is why the term "mad scientist" was coined.
C. |
Fiona Farrell (Lala)
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 27, 2002 - 8:41 am: | |
I loved this discussion, it is so hot and steamy here that almost enjoyed being reminded of winter water problems, hehehe.
In all jesting seriousness, I am about to buy two new water buckets, my current ones are mostly bright yellow and have a couple of royal blue ones. New ones are going to be kelly and forest green so can set out next to a yellow and a blue to see what insects, etc. each one harvests.
Now could someone explain why the horses seem to prefer to drink out of my grey rubbermaid troughs rather than my black recycled rubber ones? My theory is the black ones heat the water more and over the two to four days between dumping and scrubbing the water seems to stay cleaner in grey ones with less foam on top and less algae.
Shall report on bucket experiment when have results, and in meantime shall work on new names for farm along lines of prism, chromatic, color fields, plastic flower.
Thanks for the laugh and the nugget of useful info. Fiona |
