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Discussion on Cold and old
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 8:46 am:
Hi Dr.O. Flash is just falling apart in this TERRIBLE cold. This morning when I went out to feed she did not meet me as usual, of course the worst went thru my mind. I took their feed around the corner and she was laying in the lean-to. She didn't get up to get her pellets and beet pulp, which normally makes her quite happy.
I tried to encourage her to get up and she just laid there, head up and actually looking pretty perky. I figured the day had finally come when she couldn't rise on her own.
I took her feed back out so the geldings wouldn't devour it and went to get a halter to see if I could help her up. I scooted the geldings out of the lean-to and put her food back at her feeder and she got up by herself. She actually got up very well and went over to eat her feed. Then started on the hay. I noticed she was shivering in her flank area. The temp this morning is -12 and the windchill is -30. The wind is NOT blowing in the lean-to and the horses have spent the last 2 days in there only coming out for water...their choice. I have been giving them free choice hay in this bitter weather, and kept their grain rations the same, which isn't much. Flash gets 1/2 lb. of lite balance pellets and a cup of beet pulp soaked.
Tonight it is suppose to be even worse -17 below with wind chills of -36. Mon. the same. I have considered blanketing her, but fear if she laid down she wouldn't get up with one on. I don't really have a heavy blanket anyway. (I am going to get one tho.) I guess the question is should I up her concentrate and beet pulp? She is holding her weight well, she has lost some but nothing alarming. Her coat is very thick and healthy. Could it be she was just shivering because she was laying down before she got up? After moving around some and eating her hay it was just a slight quiver. I do have shavings in the lean for them and will put down an even thicker layer today, maybe that will help?
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 9:18 am:
Do you have a blanket at all? Even a little light weight one would help, you don't need much. I think the lighter the better for a horse that has a winter coat so they don't sweat under it. An old blanket from the house can be put on with some old belts around the girth belly, tied with twine in front. I used to do that when I had 6 horses and no horse blankets. Used old, thin, wool army blankets. Didn't cover the horse real well, but it did make a huge difference.
Or how about a saddle blanket opened up? I have some of the cheaper kind that look like throw rugs but opened would cover the back at least.
We've got the same weather here, wind chill is
-32 right now. Won't get above -20 all day with the wind. At least the sun is out and the horses are eating hay in the sun in front of the blue spruce that are blocking the north and north west wind.
Stay warm!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 10:21 am:
IMO I'd also put a blanket on her. Horse have no problems getting up and down with a blanket on; just make sure no straps hang below her hock level so she doesn't get a leg caught in one.
If you buy a blanket, I'd suggest a breathable one, especially with her heavy coat. The light one you have is better than nothing. Like Angie I've used old blankets from the house and old army blankets. Just cut a couple of holes in the front and use baling twine as ties. for over the back you can buy a stretch circingle for a couple of bucks. In the meantime, some old belts buckled together like Angie suggested is a great idea. You can also rip the blanket binding off the old blanket, if it has it, and tie that around her middle. If you put your light blanket on top it will help hold it on.
I'd also add more hay, if it's good quality, and more conentrate...just more food all the way around. The extra shavings will help, too. And the company of the other horses will help to keep her warm, too. If she's arthritic at all, I'd give her some bute while it's so cold; but Dr.O. can advise better on that.
Hope it warms up soon for all of us. We just had this cold front you people are getting. It's warmed up to above zero at night now...still really cold for this area.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 10:53 am:
She is out soaking up the sun right now and quite toasty . Tonite and tomorrow nite will be the challenge. I put a bunch more shavings in where they lay, I am wondering if lying down was the problem, tho there is shavings I imagine the ground is still quite cold.
I have to go away early tomorrow morning until Tues. afternoon and my non-horsey husband will be in charge, so I don't think a blanket would be a good idea. He has NO idea how to do such stuff!
I am leaving him a big long note on how to feed and bagging their grain, like smart packs for him sigh...
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Member:
jerre
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 2:13 pm:
A polo wrap makes a great blanket tie for around the barrel! You know, those old almost stretched out ones gathering dust because they're "too good to throw out" ...
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 4:23 pm:
Diane, I am sorry to hear your mare is cold. I dread the day, as you mentioned, that one of the clan will not get up to meet me.
A horses hair will 'puff' and trap air which is part of how the horse stays warm.
When you put a blanket on it must compensate for laying the hair down so must be fairly heavy.
For the temperatures you are describing a med to heavyweight is recommended.
Personally I only buy med weights but I add a woolen liner when it gets below -10 and when the mercury really DrOps, -25, I add another med weight overtop.
When I choose a blanket I consider that I want the blanket to be durable, (for some reason some horses seem to like to pull on other horses blankets) be adjustable, (I really like the Shneiders brand because you can adjust the neck fit to keep the shoulder part of the blanket in place)(this is the most important part of the blanket fitting to me) and must have a good neck attachment.
What you would ask for is a winter turnout, turnouts are wind proof and have varying degrees of rain resistance, and thanks to new developments in material the blankets also breathe, this is important so the horse doesn't sweat under the blanket. they don't sweat from being too warm but from the body vapor being trapped under a non breathing blanket.
As mentioned a blanket doesn't restrict the horses movement.
I would give some extra hay rather than concentrates if possible.
Hope it warms up soon.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 4:47 pm:
No I would not up the concentrate Diane, but perhaps a extra lb of beet pulp twice daily might help fuel the internal fires.
DrO
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 5:58 pm:
i agree with everything lori said as far as how the horse keeps warm and blankets to use, tho i am not a fan of liners in the long term as i find they slip and rub a lot..they seem harder to fit.. maybe lori has found some good ones!...
if money is no option i do like a good heavy weight blanket, that way i can just use one blanket in colder weather.. i like layers, but then making sure everything is still fitting just right as you add bulk becomes a PITA... but that's just my choice...
my only concern would be how the other horses might react..are they used to seeing a horse with blankets? sometimes horses that havent seen another horse with a blanket before get "silly".. they might really give her a hard time.. she sounds like she may be a little too old to take too much of a hassling...
good luck.. i remember when i used to live in such temps.. i doubt i'll do it again...
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 6:46 pm:
Melissa it is funny you mention the other horses reaction, which has ran thru my head.
A few years ago a friend and I had gone riding on a cool fall day, the horses had started to sweat some so we decided to put coolers on them until they dried.
We were letting them graze in the yard while holding them, they were probably 20 ft. from each other. My gelding all the sudden lounged at the mare, knocking down my friend to get to her. It took me by such a surprise I wasn't able to hold him. He went after the cooler very agressivly. It was an out an out attack. I got a hold of him and disciplined him and he still wanted to attack. Once the cooler was removed he went over and sniffed her, put his nose next to her and began grazing again!
The mare was mine and a pasture mate of the geldings, and she was his mare, they got along great. My friend and I had grazed them for years after rides like this with no problem. The only difference was this was the first time the mare had ever had a cooler on.
It goes in my friends and I books as one of the most bizzare behaviors we've ever seen. Although I do have a few more that come close.
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 9:10 pm:
Hi Diane, It is so hard to know what to do in this weather. -5 right now. My horses are in the barn, last night I kept Levi's blanket on, today and tonight, I did not. Don't know what to do. Levi has not really shivered and he is such a toad, I am sure it is for me that I blanket him. I am so neurotic about my animals that I have brought my chickens and ducks into the cat kennel. Even with the heat lamps (which I am sure are costing a fortune to run), it was only 0 in their chicken house the last 2 days.
Lets hope this cold snap gets over with soon.
I have been upping their alfalfa to produce more heat for my boys, don't know if that helps or not.
Just a thought, if you feed alfalfa
suz
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 10:43 pm:
I, too, like Schneider's blankets for their fit. As to the weight, with some of the newer materials I'm not sure you need as heavy a blanket as you once did. I've use light weight, breathable, water/wind proof blankets that are lined with thinsulate. They've done a good job.
As to liners, I like the polar fleece ones as they add a little extra warmth and not much bulk. They don't slip around if you get the belly band ones. Also, many liners are made with holes for leg straps of the outer blanket which stops slipping.
Where you are going to be away though, imo just have your husband give her lots of extra food -preferable good quality hay/pellets/cubes.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 4, 2007 - 10:50 pm:
I think what's really hard on the horses is the abrubt changes we're having in weather. We've been having the cold you guys in the mid-west and east are now getting with night time temps. down to -22 and daytime highs in the low 20's. Now it's warming up, and if I can believe the weatherman (!?!) It's supposed to be in the low 50's by the end of the week. The poor horses don't know what to do and neither do I. I left blankets off until it cooled off today, and now at almost 9p.m. I have to go out and put them back on. To further confuse things, some of our horses are starting to shed...and not just lightly, major shedding. Are we going to have an early spring? If it does get up to 50 we're going to have to break out the water wings for everyone as we still have lots of snow around. Ain't winter grand?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 6:36 am:
Well -18, wind chill -30, I haven't been out yet, because the lean-to light won't work when it's this cold, so waiting for sunrise.
Last night I gave them enough hay to eat, poop on, and lay on for a week. Doubled the bedding, and gave her 2 grams of bute and extra beet pulp. I am HOPING she is o.k., along with the 2 calves that were born yesterday.
They changed my trip to leave at noon instead due to the weather, and they are canceling schools. I hate bitter cold.
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Member:
maggienm
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 8:32 am:
Yikes Diane, I wonder if we are being affected by the same weather pattern, all week our highs are in the mid -20's.
Sara, I agree it is the fluctuations that are so hard.
We had a couple of warm days, -5, even +2 or 3, that was hard on the horses. So hard to blanket then, take the blanket off because they are too warm but leave something on because the wind is blowing, at night reblanket because the temp might DrOp.
The liners I use are a wool blend, they def don't slip around, I almost have to peel them off. I am on the second year with one, still in good shape.
Its hard not to worry about the horses at the best of times.
Try to focus on your trip and soon you'll be back to look after your gang.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 8:51 am:
This weather is something the last couple of years. Last summer I didn't know what to do with such heat and humidity. The U.P. of MI isn't known for having days with the heat index over 100+. I was so thankful to have a barn finally, and kept the horses in plus hosed them off.
Now, the cold I am more used to, but like the rest of you, it's a guessing game as how much we need to do for our horses.
Sat night they were out, seemed fine Sunday morning. Last night they were standing in the open stalls with hay laying out in the pasture. Just seemed like they were telling me they wanted to stay in. So they are in.
Second day the windchill has been lower than -30 at sunrise. I think every school up here is shut down.
For some strange reason our smoke alarm in the beDrOom has been blasting us awake in the middle of the night, so I need coffee and that brisk morning air to wake up here. The sun is over the trees now here and hitting my back and screen so I know my horses will be ready to go out now. Just like us, they love soaking up those rays in the morning.
This too shall pass!!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 9:22 am:
She looked very good and happy this morning, greeted me at the usual spot. No shivering, but they were so full of frost it was ALMOST funny. The plan must have worked thanks for all the advice and someone to complain to.This pic isn't the greatest but you get the idea
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 10:52 am:
She looks so huggable, Diane! So glad she's feeling chirpier today - I've been following this thread but didn't have anything to add (except that I would definitely blanket her, although ... I do understand your concerns about the reaction of her buddies - and possibly her own reaction too?)
Fingers crossed for warmer temps - and a successful trim when the farrier comes!
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 11:00 am:
Isn't this the best board? Sounds like you have a system now... just grab some ulcerguard if she starts looking iffy from the bute. I doubled Brave's Conquer gel and buted him every other day during our cold spell...but I couldn't imagine minus 30!!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 11:17 am:
Thanks guys, I hope she survives my husband the next 2 days. I buted her already and put down more shavings. The temps are suppose to modify a little after today, but then snow. I'm off for my "job training" now, hopefully everything will be alive when I get back
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 11:52 am:
Diane,
She looks a lot like my arab mare Willow. Short, stocky, low back, bay, long hair. A little bit stockier though.
They'll all be alive when you get back. Mine survive my son's care for 2 weeks at a time every summer. He don't even seem to know how many horses we have all together, much less what to do if something happens. I just give him a list of numbers to call, posted in the house and the barn.
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 12:19 pm:
Diane, she's a cute little teddy bear!
As for blankets, I think if you're going to use one, buy a really good turn-out blanket. they wick and they are lightweight and durable. They stay on better than improvised covers which can and do tangle in legs!
I also don't believe in taking them off and on with every temperature change. The horse doesn't shed out every time you get a warm spell.
Put the blanket on when the really cold weather comes and leave it there until it gradually stays consistently warmer. Your horse will survive an occasional warm day just fine if the blanket is good quality.
Old horses, and sick ones do so much better with a blanket. My young and healthy ones manage perfectly without them.
Diane, like you I went out a few years ago to find my very old gelding lying in the snow nearly dead. His body temp was very low and we nearly lost him. Since then he is blanketed when the weather stays consistently cold, and we feed him Dengie Hi-Fi chopped forage. His old teeth don't chew hay well anymore and he needs the forage to keep warm.
I thought he was a goner that year but he is strong and healthy since then.
I hate winter!!!
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 1:52 pm:
I always have very light outdoor blankets and if it got really cold preferred putting a summer or woolen blanket under[more layers isolate better] Especially older and sick horses feel so much more comfortable if their muscles stay warm. A good light blanket will stay on its place and you can even check underneath every other day [if your husband is in charge for instance]
The other horses normally do not really react if you put the new blankets on every horse for a while. The smell seems to help[I always take a 'smelly' blanket for horses who are not used to something on or around them]
If it gets very cold putting bandages[the nice soft stable bandages] helps very good keeping them warm though ofcourse this is a bit risky, some horses get rid of them. Still if a horse is very cold bandages with underneath something warm[towel out of the microwave?] does the trick.
Hope this is of use to anyone.
Jos
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Member:
ryle
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Posted on Monday, Feb 5, 2007 - 11:03 pm:
Diane,
My old man has been affected by the cold too during this snap (even though I'm in Texas and it's not nearly as cold here as it is where you are), at 30 years of age he is just more susceptible than my young horses. But it really seems to be an issue only when it's also wet outside because he will choose to stand out in the rain with the other horses rather than go into the run-in shed on his own. So I've taken to stalling him when the weather is supposed to be wet and blanketing him. We haven't had anymore shivering episodes since I started this routine. I also put out more hay when it's really cold to both help keep everyone inside the run-in and to help them stay warm.
So, even if you can't get your hubby to blanket your mare I would say go ahead and consider getting a blanket to use on those really bad nights. And teach your hubby how to put it on and take it off so that next time you have to leave home for a couple of days you don't have to worry about your old lady ;) My non-horsey hubby has learned how to do it so it can't be too hard.
And as for the horse's reaction to a blanket, Fancy Pants had only ever had his blanket on once before to get hauled in to have his teeth floated (the man I got him from was a bit "country" and didn't blanket or float teeth, etc) so when I brought it out to blanket him one evening when it started getting cold he looked at me like "oh no, we aren't going to see that crazy woman vet again!" and once I got it on him, he wouldn't stand still for me to touch him until after he had had a big breakfast the next morning. But after that he was fine with it.
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Member:
lzieman
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 10:43 am:
I love the name Fancy Pants! What kind of horse is he?
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New Member:
teddyj1
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 11:46 am:
I live in New England. The temps have been very harsh here the past couple of weeks after a fairly mild winter. Neither of my two boys can tolerate wind at all!! One is a 5 yr. old warmblood, the other a 20 yr old Appy. the WB doesn't grow much coat, the Appy is always pretty thick. They have 24/7 access to their pasture from their stalls, but won't go out with out their Turn-Out blankets on if their is any WIND. I use heavy weight blankets with hoods under 15 degrees with wind, hoods off -no wind, lighter Turn-Outs depending on wind/temp up to 40 degrees (and the horse). I personally have never had a problem finding either horse overly warm with these very well designed type Turn-Outs because they are fairly lightweight, and they are BREATHABLE so they are made for variable temps and horses running and playing.
My guys also get as much hay as they will eat, and are on a Beet Pulp based Complete feed, Alfalfa cubes, and Dengie Totally Timothy to ensure they are getting 3% body weight fiber daily. I found free choice hay was unreliable due to wastage amounts, so I feed flakes continously through out the day and evening.
Having said all that, I agree every horse is an induvidual, just like we are, some are better adapted to the cold, some to the heat, just know your animal, and don't apply set standards for all of them, and bless all of you for the care you give to yours !
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 2:26 pm:
Well she survived hubby and the blasted wind has quit blowing. It is actually 1 ABOVE zero today!
He actually fed them more hay then I had instructed, he said Hank was eating the poop pile
Which I think is boredom more than anything!
Blanketing will be on my list of options, but as a last resort. I think the geldings would pick at her with one on, especially as bored as they are in this weather.
Her snowballs were back when I got home, it has snowed 4in. today.(if it isn't cold it's snowing)
Farrier is coming Fri., my next challenge!
Thanks everyone
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New Member:
teddyj1
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 3:50 pm:
Hi New England again, just came in from haying again, and was thinking about this discussion.
I grew up in Florida right in the middle of "Horse Country", didn't move here until 6 yrs ago. Now they say horses are better adapted to cold climates,BUT I'll tell you in my 40 years of owning horses down home in 90 degree heat we never had so many worries over their health as I've had up here in this cold climate? They could stay out 24/7 and eat GRASS, and be supplemented with hay, and maybe some grain; if it was too hot to ride in the middle of the day you could ride early or you could ride late, but you could always ride. You could turn the horses out at night, and keep them in front of fans in the day time, or if you had well shaded pastures they were happy to stay out on a 95 degree day, plus you could always pull out the water hose if you really needed it.
The extreme cold is a very different story from what I see. Many months with out access to decent pasture,hay bills, dangerous footing at times, frozen ground too hard to ride on for weeks on end, whipping winds, frozen water buckets, or added electric bills, horses standing with nothing to do for days on end because it's too cold( even out in the pasture-frozen ground-wind).Ulcers are especially worrisome to me when conditions are like this, and I see way too many horses in my area sitting at other farms without a constant supply of hay, and only getting an hour of turn out if their lucky. I don't know but it seems completely unnatural to me for horses to be living in this environment.
Sorry this wasn't much help,just an after thought
I guess.
Very homesick, but very married- Thanks for letting me vent!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 7:12 pm:
Hi Susan, Welcome to HA, actually my horses prefer the cold weather, it''s just been too extreme here lately!
Mine hate the bugs, humidity, and heat. They stand around as much then as when it's cold, but actually look more miserable. The cold does make it much harder for us humans tho! and more expensive. The old girl is the only one that is having a small problem with the EXTREME cold. The boys have been doing well.
If I had a choice between Fla. and here, I would probably choose here. I had 3 brother-in laws move down too Fla. and they all came back eventually, they said they missed the seasons. If I was raised in Fla. and came here I don't think I could stand it. Good Luck with the cold.... I hope what we had isn't heading your way.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 6, 2007 - 9:45 pm:
I would think it would certainly be more expensive in a cold climate. However, there are some big plusses to a cold climate also. I lived where it was REALLY cold with tons of snow (4'on the ground average all winter) and the horses did great even there. The only time we ever had a sick horse was when it had been "down in the valley" and came home sick. We also had no ticks, few flies, no mosquitos, and fewer parasites. The horses grew thick coats and seemed to love the snow. They had enclosed stalls, but were only shut up during severe storms; the rest of the time they could go in and out at will. I put borium dotted shoes with snow pads on the ones I wanted to ride.
One difference, I think, is that winters back east are a lot different than those of the west. We get storms, but between storms we get a lot of sun. Even when it is very cold, you can get warm enough to peel down to a sweatshirt if you are working and there is no wind. Also, it is very dry. I've lived back east, and it was always damp and cold feeling with gray skies during the winter, at least in NY. The coldest I ever was in my life way the winter I spent at the Naval base in Newport, R.I. I couldn't get warm the entire winter. Luckily, my horse stayed at home in Tx with my parents.
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Member:
terrilyn
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 8, 2007 - 12:56 pm:
I am not sure if it's ok to piggyback my question to this post, but it is definitely a "cold/old" question... I board a 15-yo QH mare who has never exhibited signs of being stiff, lame, etc...this is the first winter we have boarded her. I know she came from SC where winters are generally warmer than ours in eastern VA, and this is her first winter in VA.
For the past week or more, we have had consistently cold temps...30s during day, teens and 20s at night. Suddenly, the mare is walking very stiffly, slowly, and seems to be uncomfortable. Parts of the pasture are frozen into dips and craters...she walks over this with extreme care and caution, gingerly putting down each hoof. When walking to or from her stall (good, flat footing, no ice) in the early evening and morning, she is very slow--much more so than usual. We keep her in at night so she can lie down in deep shavings and to provide shelter from wind, but she does not wear a blanket...I haven't seen her shiver and she is extremely woolly. But her stiffness/achiness concerns me. Is this cold-weather arthritis? (Is there such a thing?) Should I be blanketing her? I have not seen this before and I'm very concerned. I'd just like her to be comfortable again. Any suggestions?
Thanks, as always.
Terri
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Member:
terrilyn
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 8, 2007 - 12:58 pm:
PS...I plan to giver her some Bute when I get home this evening to see if that helps a little...
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Feb 8, 2007 - 2:00 pm:
Hi Terri, I have 2 that walk gingerly in the cold. The old girl which this post is about has arthritis, she is more a shuffler and you can definately tell it's her joints. Hard, irregular ground really doesn't make a difference to her. Bute will help usually and yes the cold seems to make her worse.
Then there is Hank he walks more GINGERLY on hard, irregular, frozen ground. His problem is his hooves, when walking him on soft ground, such as deep shavings there is a big difference. Is it possible your mare has sore feet from the hard, frozen, irregular ground? Walking on very soft footing would pretty much tell you. She could have bruised her soles on the hard ground.
Just some thoughts to consider. Good Luck, I hate it when they are uncomfortable.
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Member:
jmarie
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Posted on Friday, Feb 9, 2007 - 12:17 pm:
I'm generally one to avoid blanketing unless necessary, but this is an unusual year. The wind makes in necessary in my book. My six--even the oldest ones--seem okay in this sub-zero wind-chill weather with winter turnouts on and being kept in the barn at night (and lots and lots of free-choice hay!) . . . except for the big Paint, Zip, who appears to hold me personally responsible for the weather. The others are delighted to come in at night and give lots of kisses and hugs when I tuck them in, but Zip has completely stopped speaking to me. He'll "allow" me to fuss over him a little, then turns his back. I can't leave him out alone at night because the predators are just too numerous and hungry, but it's sad that he's so unhappy.
Guess we can't please all of them! I'm keeping a good thought for a quick end to this awful weather pattern. We're really not used to this in NJ. Really. Icky bad cold!
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Member:
lzieman
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Posted on Friday, Feb 9, 2007 - 1:05 pm:
Joanne,
I have a stupid question, but I'm new to horse ownership, so I think I get couple freebies. You say there are a lot of predators, so you can't leave him out at night. What are they--coyotes? In my neighborhood here in Colorado, on the plains, not near the foothills, most everyone just has loafing sheds, and the horses are turned out 24/7. We do have coyotes, but I've never seen more than 2 at a time around my house, although I do sometimes hear them calling each other. Are coyotes a danger to healthy, adult horses?
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Member:
jmarie
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 10, 2007 - 8:21 am:
Lisa, we have packs of coyotes, mountain lions recently reintroduced (gotta love the wisdom of state Fish and Game!), and black bears as thick as mosquitoes. All of them have killed or injured horses in the area. My mini NEVER goes out at night since a mini stallion was killed and eaten by a bear a few miles from here. I had to have a bear trapped and euthanized after it marauded through my property for a week, ripping the siding off the chicken coop and killing whatever it could get hold of.
When I first moved here and built the farm, the very first night I let the horses stay out unsupervised, the TB mare came back with claw marks down the backs of both hind legs. We're guessing coyote as there was nothing else with claws that size here at the time. A pack of five lives just down the road. For the most part they leave us alone, but we're very cautious about keeping the cats, chickens and horses protected. I doubt that the whole herd would ever be attacked--we've had the pack of coyotes sitting right in the middle of the herd on a moonlit night keeping us up with their howling--but a solitary horse might be fair game.
Hard to believe this is NJ!
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Member:
lzieman
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 10, 2007 - 11:21 am:
Wow Joanne, now I understand why you lock everybody up! Wildlife is great, until they make your pets part of the food chain. NJ definitely doesn't come to mind when you mention your predators. Our horses are big boys at least. I wonder if horses will protect each other from an attack, besides a mare and her foal? I would think so.
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Member:
ryle
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 10, 2007 - 12:34 pm:
Yeah, the other horses can be a bit of a problem when you blanket one. My youngest horse thinks that Fancy Pants' blanket is a pull toy so when I blanket him I have to put him in a pen on his own.
Lisa, Pants is a POA with a white rump with black spots. I'm sure that's why whoever originally named him came up with Fancy Pants. I know my neighbors get a kick out of hearing us call him up in the morning--"Come on, Pants!" and "Hey old Pants" just sound funny.
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Member:
jmarie
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 10, 2007 - 4:55 pm:
Lisa, I can answer your question about herd loyalty. A few years back my daughter's lesson group was attended by a 600-pound male black bear. He appeared at the upper pasture gate, made his way down through the field to the ring, watched her teach for a bit, then went over the fence to check out the chickens and sit for a bit by the a/c compressor (go figure). Jess got the kids and lesson horses and parents into the barn. She said the bear stood near the rest of the herd who were eating at the round bale feeder. The horses kind of huddled together, then as if they'd talked it over, they surrounded the one-eyed boarder App--low man on the totem pole and totally expendable--and pushed him out towards the bear. The two animals went nose-to-nose, the horse figured out this was not a good thing, and he ran back to the herd, which took to running in a big circle like a merry-go-round.
The bear was unimpressed and left.
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 10, 2007 - 5:27 pm:
there was a study done by the government on wild horses many many years ago.. it was published in Equus i think.. in it they found many young horse (foal) carcasses... they had been attacked and killed by mountain lions and the like.. the interesting thing was that they only found one mother horse carcass.. and upon further investigation did not find much injury on any of the mares they could find.. they came to the realization that unlike pack animals, horses - herd animals - do not develop the same attachments as pack animals do, and that a mother horse will not "fight to the death" to protect her foal...
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Member:
tasia
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 10, 2007 - 6:38 pm:
Joanne, I posted a message to you under a new discussion (Horse Management and Procedures, Predators and Predator Management). I thought it best to start a new thread since it wasn't about the "Cold and Old" discussion.
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Member:
lzieman
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Posted on Saturday, Feb 10, 2007 - 8:45 pm:
Joanne, after you all quit peeing your pants, did you just break out laughing? Sounds like you got lucky that the bear was more curious than hungry. Melissa, thanks for that info. I'm kind of disappointed that that is the case.
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Member:
jmarie
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 - 9:01 am:
Lisa, we most certainly did.  We still talk about Pinky as the expendable horse.
Back to the original topic, though, the wind here has finally let up, and though the temps are still in the single digits at night, the herd is out with free-choice hay and warm water 24/7 and are doing great . . . even old Pinky. Zip's mood has improved dramatically. No one is shivering, and they're calm and mellow.
Melissa, I had to laugh when I read the blanketing issue. I wish you were here to watch my two Apps--Pinky the Arthritic Wonder Horse and Dakota who is the youngster of the group at 16--playing the blanket game. Several times a day they stand nose-to-tail and each grabs the back edge of the other's blanket and yanks. They both wind up standing on only their front feet with their back ends hoisted off the ground. It's six degrees out, and Pinky is so stiff in the back normally that hoof trims require serious gymnastics by the farrier, but he has no problem playing all day outside.
Another one of those things that make you go "Hmmm . . . "
I'm sure I'll find Dakota's tail flap come spring when I can dig around in the muck. It disappeared the first day. But the blankets stay on and the horses are happy. If you're concerned about wear-and-tear (and there's plenty of tear sometimes), stock up right now on inexpensive replacements (and duct tape). There's a great seller at www.horseloverz.com ("Equiteric" on eBay) who is in PA and has blankets at half price or lower. I keep a couple of new spares around, but I haven't had to do an emergency replacement in quite some time.
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Member:
kbr1
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 - 10:58 pm:
I really enjoy reading all the different theories on how to do things. I have three horses, a 30 year old Arab, 10 year old Appy and a 7 year old App/Arab (who is now stalled for who knows how long because of a bowed tendon). This is the first year I have used blankets, my vet wants them on when it gets down into the 20's. My problem is that is warms up somewhat during the day, to around 40 and a little higher in the sun. Should I leave the blankets on all day? It isn't a problem on the weekends to take them off when it warms up, but during the week I leave by 7am at the latest and it's usually still cold out.
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Sunday, Feb 11, 2007 - 11:16 pm:
Hi, Kathleen,
I know it's a worry to work away from home while the kids are unsupervised, out in the yard playing . . .
To avoid the worries about torn or twisted blankets and horses that might get too hot during the day with them on, I used to take the blankets off while the horses were eating hay in the a.m. (if they had shelter from the rain and cold wind ) Once the hay gets into their guts, they start generating heat, and the temps usually warm up during the day . . . so I would throw hay, undo the leg straps, undo the belly straps, undo the chest buckles . . . and fold the rump third of the blanket up over their backs, fold the front third of the blanket back over the other two sections and just let the blanket set there for a couple of minutes while the horses munched away on their breakfast and adjusted to the change . . . and then I'd remove the blankets from their backs. One thing I always did for my oldsters (who were the only ones that had blankets when the temps reached zero or there was bitter wind and precipitation) was give them hot water on their pellets. Figured it would help warm them a bit. Never had any problems with taking the blankets off during the day. If your temps are going to be bitter and windy, then you can leave the blankets on during the day, but that can create other problems if they get playing and pulling on one another and get caught up in a blanket when you aren't there.
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Member:
jmarie
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Posted on Monday, Feb 12, 2007 - 2:11 pm:
Kathleen, I'm sure not everyone will agree with me, but we have the same weather, and I just leave the blankets on. The way I see it is that the temperature doesn't just plummet from 40 to zero in a matter of minutes. It's a slow cooling-off till it briefly reaches the low in the early morning before beginning to rise again. I haven't had any problems with this approach in 10 years, and none of the boarding farms where I kept animals before I bought my own place took blankets off or replaced them.
It's key to find blankets that fit well and don't shift easily. And they need to be breathable so the sweat can evaporate at least a little. Even blanketed, my guys are in when it's overly wet or sub-zero windy.
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Member:
kbr1
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Posted on Monday, Feb 12, 2007 - 7:51 pm:
Thank you both for your input, I did take the blankets off this morning because it got to around 50 today. I don't believe I have the best quality blankets so I may look into getting some that are a little better. If spring would only get here.....
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Member:
amara
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Posted on Tuesday, Feb 13, 2007 - 11:55 am:
when i ran a boarding stable in the winter i tried to keep blankets on all the time... i generally had no problem leaving blankets on into the 40's, especially in winter since its usually windy or overcast.. if it was supposed to be really sunny i might try to change to a sheet, or just leave them without... with all the horses it was way too much work to be switching blankets all the time, and i rarely had a problem...
well fitting and good quality blankets are a definite must...the cheaper ones dont breathe, and they also dont last.. if anyone gets playing the blanket game the cheap blankets are the first to give...
one word of caution.. i hate the closed front blankets.. not only are they hard to fit right, but if the horses get playing just right it can be bad... many many many years ago i was in the barn doing chores when i looked out and saw my mailman sprinting out of his car across my pasture to an area i couldnt see.. i looked out and saw one horse with his foreleg caught in the closed chest of another horse's blanket... i ran out and thank heavens i had a knife and both horses were quiet and calm!... i was able to cut the front of the blanket, as there was no way we could get the foot out.. his leg was in a really bad position.. if the other horse had moved at all he may very well have done some serious damage...
it was a wreck of a fairly decent blanket.. while the incident may not have been avoidable as these two horses were like little kids all the time, having buckles in front would have made short work of the problem...
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