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Jean Handy
Member
Username: Jhandy
Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 27, 2003 - 6:00 pm: |   |
My horses live in Piedmont NC now, but I have purchased some land in the mts. of east Tennessee for when I retire "someday" (maybe 5 years or more). I am thinking of planting black locust seedlings around the perimeter of the future pasture, with the idea of putting the fence on them directly instead of having to cut and install posts. Black locust (Robinia pseudoacacia) already grows wild up there on my property, though I don't have it here in the piedmont, and it was common and highly regarded for posts in the Shenandoah Valley where I grew up.
My question is twofold:
1. When the trees get large enough, will they work just as well for posts on their own root system as they would if I cut them down and installed them with a post-driver or digger? (It would be possible to prune lower limbs periodically as they grow.)
2. I'm aware that some sources list this species as toxic to livestock. However, as common as it is in its native range, I can't imagine that it poses a deadly threat in a pasture setting with plentiful other forage and feed.
Any ideas? Thanks! |
JANETTE MCDOWELL
Member
Username: Westks
Post Number: 18
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 27, 2003 - 6:21 pm: | |
staples and wires will eventually kill trees,via rust or allowing another type of disease or parasite a way to get into tree. |
Bonita
Member
Username: Bonita
Post Number: 392
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 28, 2003 - 10:05 am: | |
Not to mention that I don't think locust is a particularly speedy grower. You might be way, way, way into retirement before those seedlings were large enough to use as posts - lol!!! |
Ann Cohrs
Member
Username: Apcohrs
Post Number: 50
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 28, 2003 - 10:57 am: | |
Locust IS a fast grower as well as extremely tough tree. Staples and wires will be a very minor setback to the tree as long as the wires don't eventually embed themselves in the tree.
But the locust seed pods are mildly toxic to horses, so that might figure into your planning. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 7675
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 28, 2003 - 11:07 am: | |
Hmmm...I am not sure the arguments above are valid. Though I know it is surprising for a wood so hard, both honey and black locust grow quickly and spread rapidly. So fast in fact, it's aggressive nature is considered dangerous to other native plant stands.
While it is hard to imagine it is good for the tree, I know trees that have grown whole sections of wire fencing into them and look pretty healthy, what appears to have been decades ago.
However I have had to repair horses from locust thorn wounds and the toxic problems are real, though I admit I have never treated a horse for it. From the Canadian Poisonous Plant Site comes several reports of natural poisoning and research into the toxicity of this plant toward horses:
Horses that ingested black locust leaves, sprouts, and bark were poisoned and died. Symptoms are similar to those of cattle and include anorexia, weakness, posterior paralysis, nausea, coldness of the extremities, and pupil dilation. Symptoms of colic also occur. In severe cases, death occurs. Postmortem findings showed mucous inflammation of the gastrointestinal tract and occasional severe gastroenterititis. In some cases a yellowish pigmentation of the membranes occurred. (Hansen 1924, Kingsbury 1964).
Robin (or robinin) and phasin, which are toxic proteins called toxalbumins, are present in black locust. A glycoprotein that agglutinates red blood cells has been extracted from the plant. It is not clear if this is robin or another substance. Experimental feeding to horses has shown the following toxicities:
=> powdered bark about 0.04% of body weight caused symptoms
So less than 8 oz of bark is toxic and all parts of the plants are known to be toxic....
DrO |
Jean Handy
Member
Username: Jhandy
Post Number: 3
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 28, 2003 - 4:34 pm: | |
Thanks so much for all the responses so quickly!!
My present setup involves some corners where we nailed the woven wire fence to trees (mostly oaks) some 23 years ago, on purpose so the horses could get into the woods for shade. Some of those trees have the wire deeply embedded now but are otherwise perfectly healthy.
The state of Tennessee offers 500 seedlings for $90, for reforestation & improving previously cultivated hillsides (which mine is, now in good mix of grass & wildflowers). I was feeling like a genius until I read the toxicity caveats (thanks, Dr. O., for the details). And I know the thorns are nasty, because I've stuck myself before.
On the other hand, people use locust posts all the time, and nobody worries that the critters will peel the bark off them...
My draft mare Belle once lifted a gate off its hinges and strolled into the woods eating acorns, which I thought very funny until I read that they can be toxic too. Fortunately all she got was a big smile, savoring the acorns and watching me work on the fence.
Maybe I will plant the seedlings in rows, and harvest them later for posts. I really appreciate everyone's ideas. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 7680
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003 - 6:54 am: | |
That is certainly one of the problems when we hear something is toxic. It seems a lot of things are toxic that don't seem to effect horses we know. In the fall in our areas horses grow fat on acorns and I have never really seen a horse I was convinced was suffering from them. However they are not the most toxic component of the tree, and I think there are some species that are more toxic than other, see the article for more. So often these things that are marginally a problem only become a problem wwhen better foodstuffs are not available, then again some horses make it their mission in life to debark every tree in their pasture.
DrO |
