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Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 659
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 11:28 pm: |   |
I am probably over-sensitive now to too long of toes, because of Levi. I just wondered if my other horse, Clyde's toes are also being left too long. I will try to post pictures for opinions. But when he walks, he drags his toes, instead of lifting up his foot. It has been suggested that he is just "lazy". But it seems to me his toes are too long.
I copied the illustrations from Dr. O's article, and took out a ruler to try to measure the angle but "I'm just not smart enough to get it figured out"
My farrier just isn't giving me the confidence I use to have in him.
suz |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1209
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 10:51 am: | |
Susan,
I've just gotten into trimming my horses hooves myself this year so I am very sensitive to what their feet are doing all the time...drives me nuts, lol!
All of my horses at times drag their toes. Especially on the back feet. I don't worry about it too much, they are just being lazy and relaxed. No stumbling when I ride, so o.k. But yup, post pictures just in case.
I've quit measuring, that drove me nuts too. I look at each foot individually. I have many printed pictures: Of each foot after the farrier did them the last time, as well as from various websites on Natural Hoof Trimming. I compare pictures and go buggy eyed looking at them all. And so far there's nothing to worry about which is probably the same in your case. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 18479
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 6:33 am: | |
Susan are you still planning on posting those pictures? If you can get good laterals and sole shots we can probably give specific recommendations. The shots need to be well lit and undistorted by having all points of interest equal distant from the lens or put another way shot "square" and not at an angle.
DrO |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 665
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 6:10 pm: | |
Gonna Try to post Clydes feet. Had to try to square him alone. So, need to know if his toes are too long, and angle is correct?
could not get sole shots alone, will work on it. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 2806
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 7:26 pm: | |
IMO opinion they are a little too long from what I can see. The sole shots will help. How long ago was he trimmed? Is he dragging all four feet, or just his hinds? |
Aileen
Member
Username: sunny66
Post Number: 1769
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 11:55 am: | |
Hi Susan,
What kind of horse is Clyde? It looks like he has a compression ring on his left front, which means somethings amiss...
ps... when you get some help taking the pics, try to get closer to the ground and directly to the side for the laterals...  |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 669
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 10:29 pm: | |
thanks Aileen, I will try new shots tomorrow. Clyde is a black and white paint. He is a big puppy dog, and Levi's best friend now.
He has a trot that is so smooth, but what do you mean by compression ring?
suz |
Aileen
Member
Username: sunny66
Post Number: 1778
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 9:54 am: | |
It may just be a shadow in the picture... about an inch up from the bottom of his hoof do you see an indentation of sorts? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 18495
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 6:27 am: | |
From the limited information in the images Susan, the whole foot appears a touch too long, there is a flare in the toe in the front, and the angles are a touch too low. For a horse that trips the toe should be rolled or squared off.
As to whether these feet can be trimmed more aggressively to correct these things depends on whether our assessment is correct and if correct is there enough sole depth to trim the foots new shape. We cannot assess that from here.
Often sole depth can be estimated with softness on finger depression and the relation of the buttress to the frog but radiographs may help more if there is abnormal positioning (rotation) of the coffin bone. For much more on these principles see, Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Correcting Long Toe Low Heel Foot Conformation.
DrO |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 672
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 11:19 pm: | |
Clyde seems to have a sunken in frog. I will try to get pictures tomorrow. He has a crack on his rear foot now as well. I think I must try to find a new farrier. I really like Rick, personally, and he has gone out of his way to be here, but I have lost confidence in his ability to get my boys feet right. After all the trouble with Levi, I don't want to go through this again. I have asked his about his sunken looking frog and he said, "nothin to worry about".
I will get pics tomorrow. He runs around and trots and gallops just fine, not lame at all, just seems a little toe dragging when he walks around. Does not really trip at all.
Will check out the articles,
suz |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 673
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 5:31 pm: | |
Clyde's feet are pretty splayed out at the bottom. The one picture is his back foot with a huge climbing crack. I have put a call into an old farrier I use to use. I hope she will consider taking me back for the other guys.
It was really windy outside, so he is squinting into the wind! Probably chunkier than he should be but they don't work much, just eat and lounge alot.
suz
Any opinions???? |
Melissa Boschwitz
Member
Username: amara
Post Number: 303
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 5:56 pm: | |
it's amazing what happens when the feet get so long that they chip off... they almost always look better...get the rest of the foot to do that!
dont know when his feet were last done but looks like its been a LONG time, or else they are growing REALLY fast...
we need full sole shots from a clean hoof, without part of the foot missing from the shot.. also, a view looking down at his frog-looking towards the toe, will allow us to be able to see if his frog really is sunken in, or if its just because the whole foot is overgrown...
it does appear the toe is too long and the heels shoved forward..with these pics hard to tell if the heels are even or not...
the frog does not appear as filled out as i would like to see, but again, these pics dont give the best view...
i do agree you may need to look into getting a diff. trimmer..
p.s. mr clyde is a cutie! love the bald face!! |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 675
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 8:52 pm: | |
Believe it or not, his feet were trimmed on April 23. The first picture, after I posted, I noticed was not very clean. I brushed it out and squirted some cleaner in the last 2 pics. I will try as you suggested to get another pic facing towards the toe. The rim around the outside white line is chalky like, I hope he does not have the white line stuff. I know old sole will be like that sometimes.
He is a cutie patootey. And a very nice boy.
thanks
Have not heard from the other farrier yet.
It is so frustrating having so few choices.
suz |
Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 308
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 9:32 pm: | |
Maybe its time to consider taking up a pair of nippers and a rasp...? You might surprise yourself! I love doing my horses myself - I continue to get so much satisfaction out of it. Stacy |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1216
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 10:04 pm: | |
I second Stacy's idea. My goal is to do my horses on a 3 week schedule eventually. With 4 horses, that means about 1 1/4 horse per week, lol! The Horse this month has an interesting article on what happens between trims, especially with shoeing horses. The Horse.com One Step at a Time: Hoof Trimmng and Leg Stress.
After reading that, I feel even more confident I am doing the right thing by trimming myself. I should say rasping myself, not very good with the nippers. |
Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 309
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 10:18 pm: | |
It has become part of my grooming routine with any horse I have in crossties, makes the work light if you do a little at a time. I don't stress if I don't get to do all four feet in one day either, but I definitely get them all within four days max. Susan, I started out by going behind my farriers trim on week two, because the foot should still be in good shape and it kind of guides you. There's more info from lots of people on a thread called "Amateur Farrier Hour" if you want a few laughs! |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 686
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 3:34 pm: | |
Hi All, I will try to get pictures of the newly shod Clyde. I am trying out my "old" farrier again. I discussed how his feet have been getting progressively longer, and the fact that we had a big crack in the back foot.
The front feet look awesome, in my uneducated opinion. The angle of his pastern seems more upright, not so sloping.
However, it is usually feast or famine for me. She worked on his back foot that had the crack and he had tons of crumbly smelly old sole, she cut all of that out and trimmed back his foot so that the crack was actually gone. It looked a bit too short for me, and sure enough he did not want to put much weight on his foot. He was so bad that she could not do his other foot. I had to take him outside on the grass, let him munch so that she could trim his other foot.
Is it possible she took too much off - too quickly? I put him out on the grass and he walked around, but when he rested, he jerked that foot up and was not weight bearing. She said he was so long, and now he will be a little sore, till he adjusts, and to spray some apple cider vinegar on his sole to toughen them up.
Of course being the worry wart that I am, I gave him a gm of bute, and taped an old mac pad to the bottom of his foot. Now he is weight bearing with no problems.
Is there anything else I can do? Everyone says he will adjust in few days, and to keep him off hard ground for a few days. Otherwise, my other horse looks great, and his fronts seem good. I will post pictures. Before he had a sunken in frog, now it is even on the bottom.
thanks
suz |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 687
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 8:54 pm: | |
Any Comments???
suz |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 688
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 9:16 pm: | |
I tried to do a close up if this shows the angle any better. I wish I had someone around here to ask what they think. I sure appreciate you all!
The back feet can be compared to the above pictures I hope, so you can see how short she took them. The foot with the duct tape is the one that had the crack. really too short now.
how long should he be sore when cut too short.
suz
 |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 18587
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 8:36 am: | |
Hi Susan, sounds like good therapy to me but you must be careful while the foot grows out, see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Problems Following Shoeing or Trimming. Be cautious with putting duct tape on the hoof wall directly for prolonged periods, I often find it softens the horn.
DrO |
