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Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 487
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 5, 2007 - 12:30 am: |   |
I have a mini colt that has still not completely shedded out. She has perhaps 10% winter hair left, primarily on her barrel.
She is my first mini so I don't know if this is normal for them, although I doubt it is.
Could there be a medical/nutritional reason for the slow shedding?
Thank you, |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 18784
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 5, 2007 - 7:14 pm: | |
Lori can you tell us more about the colt? Some helpful information would be age, general health including chronic health problems, deworming program, and nutritional program.
Note: if you fill in this information in your profile we can access it whenever you have a questions/problems and you will not need to re-enter.
DrO |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 488
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 6, 2007 - 1:14 am: | |
Sure on both counts.
Ginny is a 14 month old mini filly. She was wormed Feb 13 with Eqvalan p[aste, double dose for tape worms, May 17 with Ivermectin, in May she also recieved a vacination.
She gets free access to a hay bale, which odd as it seems I supplemented during the winter with hay from a different source(she was losing weight, the only thing I could think of ws she was too small to get adequate hay from the large bale so at night I stalled her and gave her 2lbs (she was only 150lbs herself)of great quality grass hay). She also gets 2 cups of 12% horse pellets once a day.
Ginny has access to a salt block and a horse specific mineral block, sorry I don't remember the name right now. A few times a week I get her out of the pen onto green grass for an hour or so.
Her energy is great, her eyes are bright and clear, she is interested in everything that happens.
Since I brought her home last summer she has not so much as had a runny nose.
I have brushed and brushed her but her winter coat just doesn't want to let go. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 18790
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 6, 2007 - 8:00 am: | |
Lori, note that double doses of Eqvalan will not treat tapes. For more on our recommendations for deworming including control of tapes see our articles on deworming. We also don't recommend the use of a regular salt block along with the trace mineral block as it may prevent ingestion of appropriate amounts of trace minerals.
One other piece of information needed is what is the quality of the hay like?
DrO |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 491
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 6, 2007 - 10:41 am: | |
The wormer was Exodus, (pyrantel pamoate) I was going off memory last night, knew it started with 'E'.
hmm, no salt block, horses need a salt block like engines need oil, that has been drilled into me since way back, but if you say so. Would that apply if loose mineral is added to soaked cubes? That is what I was doing with a different mare, she always licked my hand, gave her a salt block, she really went at the salt. Guess that means there wasn't enough salt in the mineral mix but I was feeding it according to directions.
I haven't had the hay analyzed but visual inspection of the hay and the rib condition of the mare says its pretty decent.
That being said the other yearling shed out normally but is very ribby.
I have been fighting with myself about what to do with her, since she is w/b and some in her family have ocd I have been warned it is better for her to be ribby but me, I want to put some weight on her. but that should go under another thread.
Dr. O, let me tell you how much I appreciate this forum. I get answers to (and peace of mind)many questions and concerns I otherwise wouldn't. It is very good of you to provide this service.
Thank you, Lori |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 492
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 7, 2007 - 12:01 pm: | |
I took this picture of Ginny Fri, July 6
 |
Julie Masner
Member
Username: juliem
Post Number: 209
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 7, 2007 - 12:44 pm: | |
Could she have ingested any sand over her lifetime? Sometimes they are slow to let go of winter hair is they have some sand in their gut. You can check her manure for sand and I suspect for a mini, it would have to be almost clean of sand or I think I'd go ahead and do a course of treatment. There is some doubt as to whether treating is very effective, but it's not harmful even if of no benefit (except, as Dr. O would point out, for the cost). I have done that twice with yearlings that held on to their winter coats and both shed quickly afterwards---which, of course, could have been a coincidence. One thing I have found helps clear the sand from the manure, is to feed the recommended dose twice a day instead of once. Two of the horses I had would always get loose stools when the sand was building up and this never failed to set them right again. Cute pony!! |
Julie Masner
Member
Username: juliem
Post Number: 210
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 7, 2007 - 12:46 pm: | |
Oh, given what I know about minis and ponys, being ribby on good quality hay is unusual??? My shetland could be fat on what I sweep up from the barn aisle! At any rate, I think you're right to be concerned. |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1272
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 7, 2007 - 4:56 pm: | |
What a cutie!
I am interested in what you find out with this. I have an 18 yr old Arab mare who has always shed out funny. She's a bay but will have long black hairs left on her after the other horses have shed out. The ones on her neck are like downy soft.
DrO...
I guess a salt block, mineral block and selenium block is really over doing it then? I don't keep the selenium in their reach constantly, just a day or 2 out of the week; concerned about toxicity. I just thought the buggers were smart enough to go after what they needed.
Amazing what I learn on here, wasn't even going to read this one.
Good luck with her Lori. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 18796
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 8, 2007 - 7:17 am: | |
Thank you Lori,
The trace mineral block is over 95 percent regular salt, so they get plenty of regular salt (NaCl) when they use it. The problem with providing a plain salt block also is while there is a appetite for salt, there is no identified appetite for trace minerals so if the horse chooses the straight salt it does not get the very important trace minerals too. If you are adding adequate amounts of trace minerals to the feed directly and the horse consumes them, then a straight salt block would be fine. The article on salt and minerals covers the recommended amounts.
I would also like you to note that you are not following a deworming program that insures efficacy with the use of products like pyrantel pastes. Have you had fecals run just prior to a deworming? See the deworming article for more.
When you say the hay is visually good can you give us more detail like when it was cut, what stage it was cut at, its color, and its smell?
All this said it should also be noted that sometimes horses occasionally just get off schedule or foals and growing horses to get on a regular schedule but until all management issues are addressed you can't be certain.
DrO |
dustylin
New Member
Username: dustee
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 8, 2007 - 1:18 pm: | |
I was always taught that when a horse was dull in the coat, they had a "sour stomach". I would give a rounded tablespoon of regular baking soda mixed into each meal (not that they would ever notice) morning and night for one week. I repeat monthly. The thought being this would sweeten up their "innards" and, allow the hair to come out. Been doing this for thirty years. Darling mini!! |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 494
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 8, 2007 - 1:36 pm: | |
Julie, if she got any sand it would have been prior to 4 months of age. How do you treat for sand?
Since I am concerned for her I will do a fecal, on all three.
The hay has smelled sweet, fresh, filled the hay barn with a sweet hay scent, along about hmm April -ish it started to have less sweetness, a couple of the large bales did have some mold which of course I pulled out.
The color was intermittent green when it was new.
Now the outside of the bales is brown, but there is still some hint of green on the inside.
I don't know at what stage it was baled.
So, are you looking at more of a nutritional issue, not a condition? Possibly just her this year?
She really is a cutie, very smart but still kind and polite. Iknow a bit of a strange word to use for a horse but she really is.
My husband built a stand with two steps up that she has learned to walk up. This is so she is a bit higher so I don't have to bend over so far to do her feet and groom her.
I thought it was too far for her to jump fown so I taught her to back up and step down. She is so great to work with. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 2954
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 8, 2007 - 3:12 pm: | |
Lori, I'm really impressed with her going up and down steps! What a great idea!
The baking soda thing is a new one to me. I can't imagine the connection between "sour stomach" and not shedding, but at the same time I know some of these "old saws" have merit. Anytime I've known of a horse not shedding out, especially young ones, it's been due to worms.
She sure is a cute little thing! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 18805
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 8, 2007 - 6:52 pm: | |
Hello dustylin,
Hair gloss is the end product of all the different factors that effect health plus how the hair coat is treated. The number of different factors that effect it are great and problems with the stomach are just one. Gastric ulcers can cause poor doing including poor quality hair coat.
But the idea of sweetening (raising the ph) of the stomach by adding bicarb or some of the more long term alkalizers has not been shown to benefit the primary disease associated with increased stomach acidity: gastric ulcers. The reason it has not helped has not been well studied but possible explanations are rebound acidity or the short time such treatments actually effect stomach ph. Looking at your profile it would appear you are already practicing the number one way to keep the ph up: offering free choice or at least frequent access to forages. Though I would recommend a review of your deworming practices if you are occasionally having problems with poor quality hair coats.
DrO |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 502
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 11, 2007 - 11:56 pm: | |
I have the results back from the fecal tests. It was a verbal report, I was told there was no sign of any worms or tapeworms.
I don't know what else to do. Her eyes are bright, she is alert, full of energy, her hooves are growing normally so I don't think she is actually ill. Just thought it weird she wasn't shedding out. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 18827
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 12, 2007 - 7:06 am: | |
Lori, if there has been no exposure to sand recently sand is not a problem (see article on Sand Colic for more). Reviewing the above:
1) You need to get rid of the plain salt block.
2) Though negative fecals are a good sign, they do not reliably pick up several important parasites, including tapes, so I would still consider you reviewing your deworming program, see deworming overview.
3) Consider the nutritional value of the grass hay with respect to a growing horse vs the adults. The total diet of this growing horse should be 12% protein and while your concentrate is 12% your hay may well not be, for more see Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Horse Feeds, Feeding » Feeding the Growing Foal, Nutrition for Young Horses.
As to a specific disease condition of the foal that would need to addressed with a good physical exam. A horse retaining some winter hairs by itself is not a disease but could be a symptom of a disease that should have other signs.
If after a thorough review of all management issues problems are corrected and after a good physical exam there is nothing found wrong then you can just attribute it to confused hair follicles. It is not that uncommon that hair follicles don't respond as you think they should and I have always found it is a self-correcting problem with time.
DrO |
cp
Member
Username: cpacer
Post Number: 357
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 12, 2007 - 12:59 pm: | |
I have a question about the salt block recommendation too. I keep a 50# block of salt in the pasture and 4# mineral blocks in each stall, and my horses still rummage through roots and dirt.
Would I be better off only offering the mineral or the salt if one is to be chosen over the other? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 18833
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 13, 2007 - 6:29 am: | |
Hello cp,
see the Jul 8th post above to answer your question. I am interested in something: how long does the 4lb block last?
DrO |
cp
Member
Username: cpacer
Post Number: 358
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 13, 2007 - 8:06 am: | |
They hardly touch the 4lb blocks, probably because they are never locked in their stalls. When they were in a stall situation maybe 12-hours a day my guess is the 4lb block lasted about 2 months.
They do lick the block in the pasture quite frequently. If I read correctly I should replace those salt blocks with the mineral blocks? Funny, cause the guy at the feed store said buying the mineral blocks only makes the people feel better, that the salt is all that is needed (I never listened though). |
Beth Seyer
Member
Username: 122756
Post Number: 7
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 13, 2007 - 12:44 pm: | |
Hi--Have you tried giving her a bath? We've found that doing so seems to stimulate shedding with our horses.
Beth |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 18839
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 14, 2007 - 9:14 am: | |
cp, the guy at the feed store was not correct. For more on why you need to include minerals in a horses diet see Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Horse Feeds, Feeding » Minerals and Nutrition.
DrO |
cp
Member
Username: cpacer
Post Number: 359
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 16, 2007 - 7:46 am: | |
Thanks DrO! I always trust HA to be correct over all else. |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 529
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Aug 25, 2007 - 8:24 pm: | |
Boy summer is nearly gone, there was frost about 1/2 hour north of us this past week.
Beth I had bather her, twice, can't say it made any difference.
She did finally shed out, lovely shiny summer coat, a couple days a go I noticed she was really shedding and fuzzy; yep she's getting ready for the white stuff! |
