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Fran Cilella
Member
Username: Canter
Post Number: 54
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 9:07 am: |   |
A friend and I recently looked at a barn to move our horses to (we love the old place, but large price increase neccitates the move). The new barn was immaculate, horses looked well cared for, pastures were nice. All in all, we are comfortable that our horses will be well cared for.
But, one of our concerns is this: in the winter, they roll out the large round bales of hay into the pastures for the horses to munch on. I read here on the Advisor that round bales are acceptable forage, BUT...
~Assuming that it takes the horses a while to eat a large bale, doesn't the bale lose nutrients sitting out in the pasture, exposed to the elements?
~What about small animals that may have been baled up with the hay? Doesn't decomposing "victims" caught up in the bailing process cause a health risk to the horses?
~Our horses are used to being fed hay/grain in their stalls, limited quantities depending on horses' weight. I'm concerned that my easy keeper may start to get fat
~Can anyone recommend what we should look for/watch out for with the large round bales
~What's everyone's thoughts on feeding roughage this way?
Any input from all of you is greatly appreciated!
Fran |
Colleen Goolsby
Member
Username: Goolsby
Post Number: 215
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 9:41 am: | |
Fran
Here is my input. I have used both rolls and sq. bales. I prefer sq. bales because they are easier for me to manuver and there is generally less waste. As far as nutrients and critters, I dont see any difference there between the rolls and bales. I have found snakes, mice and baby rabbits in sq. bales and just pulled that part out. Mine pick around what they dont want in the rolls.
At one time we had 6 horses in the field and during the winter would put out two rolls that would last about one week. What I didnt like was the boss mare would run off the horses on the bottom of the pecking order so some of the horses werent getting their share (That is why we put out two rolls). Mine are easy keeper and I have never had one to get fat off hay (grass and grain, but not hay). Also, one of the horses would immediately rub his butt on the roll, then pee on it. Although I think rolls create alot of waste and make a mess, I wouldnt base my decission on the roll issue.
Colleen |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen
Post Number: 516
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 9:43 am: | |
Fran -
My only concern would be wastage and fighting if the bales are not in round bale feeders (like a metal cage around the bale with a solid bottom to stop legs getting trapped but bars further up that the horses stick their heads through to eat the bale)
Round bales of hay are used here in Ireland to feed both horses and cattle extensively. The only problem is if you don't have enough horses to eat up the bales in a reasonable time but mostly they keep very well. I wish I had a tractor so I could use them but instead I have to lug the small square ones all winter...
Sounds to me like you found yourself a good facility with an eye on economy so don't go looking for problems!
Imogen |
Dennis Taylor
Member
Username: Dtranch
Post Number: 87
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 9:58 am: | |
Hey all .. I use round bales in the field and square bales in the barn. I think round bales are great after I learned a few basic principles. You must use a round bale feeder, and make sure it is for horses. I used a standard feeder at first and started finding horses with a space of 6" to 8" of mane rubbed off from the rails they stick their heads through. The horse feeders do not have this top rails, instead have rounded spaces for each horse. Also, never put out more than your horses will eat in a week or so. I also put out 2 or 3 so the lower horses all have a place to eat. By using these principles, my waste on round bales has been virtually eliminated. Plus, I always like the free access to hay, as well as water and salt. One added advantage of free access, is that horses will eat around what they don't want, so you can get by with a few impurities.
DT |
Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh
Post Number: 432
Registered: 3-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 3:47 pm: | |
We've always fed round bales. We use a tombstone feeder which minimizes waste. Not ideal for horses, (mane rubbing issue) but works nevertheless.
What to look for: mold!!!! Sometimes these brutes of bales can be hiding nasty mold within them.
Considerations: Horses aren't like cattle - cattle will pull out some hay and eat it - horses will bury their heads and keep eating, breathing in all kinds of nasty dust and spores. We lost a 2 year old to guttural pouch infection - was it breathing in spores from a round bale? Who knows? Maybe, or maybe not, just a consideration. Watch out for dusty or moldy round bales.
That said, we always feed them in winter - they won't get fat on a grass hay fed free choice. Don't worry about rodents being baled in - like someone said above, if they have free choice hay - they won't eat anything that's not palatable.
About the pecking order issue - if you don't have a way to have more than one feeding site, we've found that if the low horse on the ladder gets hungry enough, he'll find a way to get his share. I may be out to lunch on this one, but I've never heard of a horse starving because he was low man - he may be a little leaner, but chances are he's in better shape because of it and the dominant horses are probably too fat! |
Teresa Cates
Member
Username: Ribbons
Post Number: 10
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 4:33 pm: | |
This may not be an issue if feeders are used, but check to be sure whoever puts out the bales removes the all the hay strings. I boarded once where the owners didn't and one horse colicked, rolled, and got her legs all tangled up in the twine. Thank goodness people were around to handle the situation, otherwise I would hate to imagine what could have happened. |
Holly Z.
Member
Username: Cowgrl
Post Number: 213
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 6:46 pm: | |
Sherri, I have to disagree with a low horse finding a way to get his share from my own experience. I went out to look at a TB mare that the owner was interested in selling. He kept her on pasture board so we trekked on out. What I found was very disturbing. The mare was to the point of being emaciated. The owners of the farm said they put hay out for the horses during winter but this mare was low horse and wasn't allowed to get her share. Stupid farm owners didn't see that she was wasting away and didn't put hay where she could get it. Not wanting to leave the mare in this condition, I bought her on the spot (after a vet check), put her on full board and she just blossomed.
Also, I was barn manager at a dude ranch where all the horses were turned out at night. Hay was put out for the horses and spaced so all could eat -- except two. They were on the bottom and a mare and gelding would chase them away if they even came close. So every night I would carry a bale of hay up the hillside so they could eat too. I felt so bad for those two, they just wanted to be part of the herd.
Also, be sure to never, ever, use tire feeders unless they've been turned inside out.
Holly Z. |
Susan Bilsky
Member
Username: Suzeb
Post Number: 171
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 26, 2004 - 7:40 pm: | |
Holly,
I can assure you that Sherri wouldn't let the low man or lady starve.
I guess the issue on round bales is such:
Is it good to excellent quality?
Is it free from mold and dust? This is a big concern for me as I have a horse with heaves and will plant his nose in the round bale all day. He will hardly come up for air.
I guess the bottom line for Fran the originator of this post is to check out the source and quality of this hay and to maybe evaluate where their horses might be in the pecking order of things.
I will pay room and board for quality hay and water and safety. That is my criteria.
Cheers,Susan B.
|
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 10527
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 5:50 am: | |
Hello Everyone,
Round bales are judged just like square bales, Fran judge its quality like you would any hay (see article on forage). If the horses look good it suggest the nutrietnts have been there in the past.
DrO |
Fran Cilella
Member
Username: Canter
Post Number: 55
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 9:05 am: | |
Thanks, everyone, for the info. As I said in my original post, this barn seemed like a good place for our horses and really the only concern was the round bales. Neither of the 2 barns I have boarded at have ever used them, but I see them everywhere at different farms (horse and cow) and they just look so awful from a drive-by-distance--but hard to judge at 50 mph.
Hard to say where our horses will end up in the pecking order. My mare tends to end up near the top, my friend's gelding tends to stay somewhere in the middle. I guess we will have to wait and see. I can say this though, the square bales that I looked at when I went to check out the place were beautiful (I got a good look because my 2 year old daughter tore one apart--much to my embarrassment--so that she could feed the horses) So the owner knows what good hay looks like.
I appreciate the insights and will share the info with my friend. (Who is equally neurotic about her horse as I am about mine) |
Holly Z.
Member
Username: Cowgrl
Post Number: 214
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 10:25 am: | |
I'm sure Sherri wouldn't either but I've seen it other places where people think that if they put out one pile of hay that all will share. Mostly my comments were not directed at Sherri but to other novice horse owners who may not know.
If I offended anyone, I apologize. |
Susan Bilsky
Member
Username: Suzeb
Post Number: 173
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 11:59 am: | |
You didn't offend me Holly. I apologize if I offended you. |
Holly Z.
Member
Username: Cowgrl
Post Number: 216
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 12:46 pm: | |
No offense taken |
Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh
Post Number: 434
Registered: 3-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 1, 2004 - 11:08 am: | |
Hey everyone, I've been in North Dakota for the past 3 days so I've missed the discussion.
Thanks Susan for 'defending' my honor. I guess I should have said that in most cases, feeding out of a one round bale will 'usually' work as the other horses will eventually move off and the 'low man/lady' will have a chance at some point to move in and get their share...
Of course it would be stupid to watch a horse waste away if it had no opportunity to eat and I suppose there are instances where intervention is required, I have just never seen it when feeding from a round bale.
Now, that said, feeding from small piles of hay...totally different scenario for the 'low man/lady'. We have 3 horses and our buckskin mare is low 'lady' so we always feed in 4 or 5 piles so she's always got one to be chased 'to'. The 'chaser' eventually picks her favorite pile and leaves the 'chased one' alone to eat.
I have also seen our 'low lady' inflict a well placed kick at the 'alpha mare' too...something that it's taken her about a year to get the courage to do, but I guess she feels that enough is enough from time to time.
Also interesting is that the low mare has learned that if she stands on the other side of my walker gelding and puts him between her and the alpha mare things usually go much smoother at feeding time.
I guess all I was trying to say is that sometimes (but not always) they will figure it out without too much intervention. |
Kami Brooks
New Member
Username: Kamibroo
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 24, 2006 - 3:48 am: | |
I know this is an old thread, but just wanted to add that I have 12 horses and use round bales. I'm very picky and will only buy round bales that have been stored inside and have learned how to spot a bad center.
But, the point I wanted to post about is that with 12 horses together, I find that feeding 1 round bale for each 3 horses works out well so that there isn't fighting and all horses have a place to eat in peace. And this tends to work out to just under or just over a weeks' worth of hay (depending on temps).
I also space the round bales at least 40' from each other, so it becomes just too much work for a dominant horse to try to 'protect' so much space.
Kami |
Fran C
Member
Username: Canter
Post Number: 654
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 25, 2006 - 8:10 am: | |
I started this post two years ago, so for anyone else looking for info on the round bales: despite my worries, it was never a problem. All horses were carefully grouped together in compatable "herds" so rarely was there a fight for food. My mare has been at this barn two winters, soon to be a third, and I now know that the round bales are supplemented with high quality square bales. The main purpose of this barn owner feeding the round bales in the winter was to give the horses a constant source of forage when the pasture had died back and the temps drop.
As usual, I worried needlessly... |
Dennis Taylor
Member
Username: Dtranch
Post Number: 327
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 4:16 pm: | |
Old post, but a new problem.
I just lost a sweet 2yo filly who somehow got inside the metal feeder, then got feet and head caught. Her injuries were such that she went into shock and then had to be put down.
I have pulled the metal feeders and am changing to the hard plastic feeders. They are about 3 times the price, but this little home foaled filly was priceless to us.
I just didn't see the danger in this feeder and can't even imagine how it happened. Wanted to advise anyone else who may be concerned.
DT |
Carolyn A Burton
Member
Username: Mcbizz
Post Number: 16
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 5:16 pm: | |
Dennis...that is such a tragedy. So terribly upsetting when such a thing happens. My deepest condolences. Carolyn Burton}} |
Ann
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 1008
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 5:23 pm: | |
Dennis thinking of you and thanking you for sharing ..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots. |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1460
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 6:04 pm: | |
I'm so very sorry Dennis, cyber (((hugs))) to you and your wife. |
Susan Jeys
Member
Username: Sjeys
Post Number: 123
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 6:23 pm: | |
I cannot imagine how devastating this was. What did you mean by metal feeder? the kind that are boxy or the round ones for a round bale? I assume it was on the ground and not elevated? |
Sue G
Member
Username: Warwick
Post Number: 540
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 6:56 pm: | |
How awful that you lost your precious filly, Dennis. When I lived in Alberta I used a tombstone feeder on my round bales and luckily had no problems however I used this system for only for a short period of time. I honestly never gave it much thought that an accident such as you describe could occur.
Thinking of you,
Sue |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 1833
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 7:56 pm: | |
Dennis, I'm so sorry about your filly; I think I know how you must feel. Thank you for posting. We have a few of the plastic feeders, and I was considering getting some metal ones to put out on the field fences. I'll stick to the plastic now. |
Diane Edmonds
Member
Username: Scooter
Post Number: 475
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 8:23 pm: | |
Dennis sorry about your filly. I also had one of those "horse" round bale feeders, a mare of mine laid down next to it, rolled and got her legs stuck between the bars and the bale. I had to put her down also. I called the company that made the horse "safe" feeders and told them about it, hoping they would come up with a better design but they didn't really seem to care. I cringe when I see them now. |
Angie
Member
Username: Ajudson1
Post Number: 857
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 8:49 pm: | |
Dennis,
I am so sorry to hear you lost a member of your equine family.
(((HUGS))) for you and your wife.
Take care. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 1577
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 11:13 pm: | |
Dennis, what a terrible experience for you to have witnessed and for your filly to have endured. Diane, I am sad for your loss, too. I see round bale feeders everywhere here in KS . . . both the cattle feeders and the horse feeders. I also see unending lengths of round bale twine and wads of chewed twine in every pasture I've visited, whether they are horse pastures or cattle pastures.
I know the square bales are more work and cost more, but I really like to used them and like the idea that I can see if the horses clean up their hay, and I can see if there is any dead animal or debris baled in with the grass. The round bales are easier and less expensive, I'm told, but all of the ones I've seen fed out are terribly black and mouldy with white or yellow mold, and there is lots of waste from the horses tearing out the hay and stomping it around the bale or feeder. It seems quite common here in the midwest to feed round bales out to horses, but I am very uneasy about doing so . . . and it seems there are fewer and fewer farmers who are messing with the square bales. The three farmers from whom we've purchased square bales here in Kansas have told me that it's more and more difficult to find young men who will help do the physical labor involved with producing square bales. |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: Quatro
Post Number: 430
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 14, 2006 - 11:22 pm: | |
Dennis, so sorry for your horrible loss. Thank
you for sharing, to hopefully help someone else to avoid such a tragedy.
suz |
Lee
Member
Username: Paul303
Post Number: 782
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 12:48 am: | |
So sorry, what a nightmare. So good of you to raise the alarm. |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen
Post Number: 852
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 2:37 am: | |
I have had a horse injured by rolling into one but fortunately not seriously. I think what happens is that they are often in a waterlogged field but the dropped hay starts to create a fairly solid pad which is comfortable for horses to lay down on close to the feeder. Then they get up or roll over close to the feeder and bang their legs against the solid lower part which is sometimes sharp or even get legs caught.
I noticed at the Ploughing Championships (big farming trade show in Ireland) this year that JFC, the main ag plastics manufacturer, were selling plastic inserts which are for feeding grain in a round feeder (like a big saucer that fits inside). I thought they would actually be useful for raising round bales off the ground and making the feeders safer but they are 137 euros so I didn't buy one yet.
I would point out that round feeders are in widespread use around the world and where stocking levels and amount of feed are correct I think they are mostly safe but I am horrified to hear what happened to Dennis as I am sure he was doing everything correctly.
Best wishes and sympathy
Imogen |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 305
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 5:40 am: | |
I am so sorry Dennis. Huge hugs to you... |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 17094
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 7:02 am: | |
My deep condolences Dennis.
DrO |
Fran C
Member
Username: Canter
Post Number: 742
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 8:00 am: | |
Dennis, so very sorry to hear of the loss of your filly. My heart felt condolences to you.
Fran |
LL
Member
Username: Frances
Post Number: 313
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 8:32 am: | |
Dennis, how terrible for you. I'm so sorry. |
Cheryl Kallenbach
Member
Username: Cheryl
Post Number: 215
Registered: 2-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 9:08 am: | |
Ahhh - Dennis - - - So sorry.
Cheryl |
Lilo
Member
Username: Lilo
Post Number: 322
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 9:18 am: | |
Dennis - so sorry to hear about your loss. And how good of you to post a warning right away.
My condolences,
Lilo |
Dennis Taylor
Member
Username: Dtranch
Post Number: 329
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 9:39 am: | |
Thanks all for your kind thoughts. We are going to miss Mariah tremendously. She had a great personality and was a joy to work with.
Just hoping this post might help someone else avoid this tragedy.
Thanks again ..
DT |
Erika L
Member
Username: Erika
Post Number: 551
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 15, 2006 - 2:51 pm: | |
Oh, Dennis, so sad...sorry to hear of Mariah's demise. Such a pretty name.
I too, got rid of my round bale feeders and switched back to squares. I had one horse who would stick her legs and neck in them and pull them away from the bales to scratch around and make a bed. When I saw her towing the entire metal feeder backward, I knew it had to go. Tragedy in waiting.
Mine were lucky. So sorry it happened to your horse. Thanks for warning everyone.
Erika |
Lee
Member
Username: Paul303
Post Number: 785
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 16, 2006 - 12:44 am: | |
Oh dear, Dennis, it hurts again......I had a Mariah once myself. "And they call the wind Mariah...." |
Sherri L. Hueser
Member
Username: Tangoh
Post Number: 834
Registered: 3-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 16, 2006 - 9:39 am: | |
Sorry to hear that Dennis. That's a tragic loss.
We've been feeding 6 from a tombstone feeder for 5 years now, I've often wondered about the safety in doing this...I'll have to share your story with my husband to see if maybe we need to make a switch. Thanks for the 'heads up'.
Like Eria says, a possible 'tragedy in waiting.'
I'm a big believer in removing unnecessary risks. Why push the envelope? A friend of mine left his horse standing on his trailer, untied with the window open while they came in and had lunch with us, even though I offered to put "Chester" in one of many paddocks we had available. The owners said that this horse needed to learn patience and to stand on the trailer. Not my horse, so whatever...anyway, 2 hours later, I go to the window to check on 'Chester' and here he is, hanging out of the window..he literally tried to jump out. He managed to get back in, but he sure scraped himself up a good bit and the trailer suffered even more damage. It annoys me sometimes that people seem to 'ask for trouble' just to prove a point or something, when there's usually a simple solution to avoid a 'potential disaster'.
Sorry again Dennis to hear about your filly. And thanks for raising the issue. |
Lori
Member
Username: Maggienm
Post Number: 263
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 16, 2006 - 10:30 am: | |
I am so sorry for your loss Dennis.
When I was out feeding my mare and her filly this morning I just couldn't stop thinking how I would miss her already if something happened to her.
It always amazes me how these horses can get themselves into trouble.
A while back one of the geldings had a bad cut on his chest, he was in the corral overnight, I never did find anything he could have caught or cut himself on. |
Dennis Taylor
Member
Username: Dtranch
Post Number: 335
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 16, 2006 - 10:49 am: | |
Sherri .. I have used these for years also, and always wondered, but they are marketed as "horse safe". Guess we learned the hard way. I just gave all mine to a local cattle guy.
Lee ... that is where the name came from. We own the sire who's name is "Wildwood Wind", thus Mariah. I see on your profile, you also had a horse named Woody. Me too. His registered name is "Zacsez Woodrow". My son Zac was in the Marines and on the ship Woodrow Wilson at the time. He was on the phone with my wife and told her to name him Woodrow. She told me "Zac says Woodrow", so that's exactly what I named him.
DT |
Dennis Taylor
Member
Username: Dtranch
Post Number: 336
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 16, 2006 - 10:55 am: | |
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