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Member:
mleeb

Posted on Thursday, Jan 3, 2008 - 10:15 am:

I'm planning to build a barn this summer. The layout we are thinking of is 36' x 48', split down the middle so my husband gets 36 x 24 at the west end for cold storage of his tractor and car etc, and I get 36 x 24 on the east side for the barn. The north side will be 48' and have a porch with an 8' overhang just to make it pretty as it faces the house and is rather close. So, back to the barn plan...

I'm still working out the layout, and I should maybe mention that it's going to be a pole-shed frame with metal siding and roof, but the basic factors I have to deal with are: cold Canadian winters and hot summers, mosquitos and flies, and 4 to 6 horses that really will not be spending much time inside. I'll probably put them in to escape the bugs, and occasionally in winter when the wind is terrible, but other than that they will really only go in when one is all bathed and ready to show and needs to stay clean, or all sweated up on a cold day and needs time to dry out.

So, my questions are this:
1. How concerned do I need to be about ventilation when the horses will seldom be inside? I'm planning a cupola on the roof, and possibly some ventilation at the top of the walls under the eaves. Windows and doors will be arranged directly opposite each other for air flow.
2. Windows. It's a small place, and the windows will end up in the stalls in some places. The windows will be sliders with screens, and I plan to put up grills to cover the glass, but are screens, grills, and working shutters a better option? Two windows will be on the hot south side, and I want to block heat when necessary, but I'll want that glass in the winter to help produce heat, too.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Thursday, Jan 3, 2008 - 10:50 am:

Hi Michelle,

I would be concerned about ventilation. Colorado is similarly extreme in heat, cold and wind, but it's amazing how quickly you can create a small oasis of airless mustiness, even here. If you use the barn for layup (injury, illness) or even something like foaling, you'll want a lot of ventilation. If anything might ever be wet, ventilation will help it dry. Gable ends are non-structural on pole barns, and are good candidates for venting, as is the strip of wall below the eaves. You could put vents or a removable clerestory window (light in winter!) at the top of the walls, w/o sacrificing the strength of the structure. I *love* clerestories in barns, and am even putting one in my indoor (using lexann, rather than anything removable).


I have found that horse cruft destroys screens and all the fragile frames and fixtures that go with them. I would tend to choose an open window frame with bars if/as necessary and shutters that can latch open or shut.
Member:
canderso

Posted on Thursday, Jan 3, 2008 - 6:05 pm:

Hi Michelle,
Lots of sources on the internet for you to use. Look up barn design on CMHA, each of the province's Department of Agriculture, as well as many of the states'.

I did a course through U Guelph on planning a horse property - did it ever open my eyes to things to consider. Off the top of my head:
1) yes, you care very deeply about ventilation. Think about ALL the different weather patterns and make sure you have 4 (or more!)complete exchanges of air every hour (without drafts).
2) Manitoba? Yes, you want screens.
3) think about the mechanics of cleaning out stalls: where will you put your wheelbarrow, how will the doors open etc.
4) think about storing things like hay, grain, bedding, tack
5) think about LIGHTING both inside and outside the building (this was the big AHA for me)
6) think about water - where will it come from, how will you move it to the horse's stalls
7) think about feeding - where will it come from, how will you move it to the horse's stalls
8) Think about insulation. Great idea for our climate
9) Think about fire. What if?
10) Think about vet and farrier visits. How do you make them easier?
11) Think about electrical outlets
12) Think about controlling the heat: fans? shade?
13) Think about working in the barn with horses in
14) Think about working in the barn with horses out
15) Think moving horses in and out of the barn... in all weather patterns (eves troughs over doors?)
16) Think about door latching systems... how many times will you have a horse lead (attached to a horse) in your other hand?

hmmm. that should be good for a start... (grin)!
Good luck!
Cheryl
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 6:31 am:

Concerning ventilation and time in, it should be noted that as little as 10 minutes exposure to normal barn air makes sensitive horses with sensitive lungs (COPD) hyperreactive for 21 days. There is no way of getting around not just good ventilation but excellent ventilation in a barn to help your horses healthy. As long as they are acclimated and fed well a cold barn will not bother them.
DrO
Member:
canderso

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 8:45 am:

Hi Michelle,
Another thought: I am not sure 24x36 is big enough for 6 horses. I guess it depends on whether you plan to do box stalls or standing stalls...

If you are doing box stalls, and you are planning for 10 x 12, that may let you do 3 along the 36' length sides BUT that means you only have 4' for your aisles, which is not wide enough.

... food for thought...
Member:
mleeb

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 2:09 pm:

Well, 24 x 36 isn't big at all, that's for sure. But I don't have any barn right now and my horses (4 at the moment), are out 24/7 on pasture. The odds of my ever putting everyone in at once are slim, at best. This would be mostly for convenience sake for the basics of bathing, grooming, farrier, saddling, and the whole crew is not going on the road with me, so only one or two are getting bathed and stalled at a time. The current floorplan (it changes every day as I keep trying to figure out the best traffic patterns) gives me 4 tie stalls at one 24' end facing a center aisle that will be 10 or 12' wide, with one 12x12 box stall and tack space on the other side of the aisle. Hard to explain well without a picture, I know, but I am trying to leave room for traffic of wheelbarrows and maybe even the quad. I used to work in a PMU barn so I clearly remember the space required just for manure removal. This will be on a somewhat smaller scale, thank goodness.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 8:13 pm:

We have a 40 x 60 barn. I think it's called the "Moniter Style" with the part in the middle being higher for hay storage. I have 4 stalls, about 12 x 13, that face each other over a 12 foot aisle. (you do loose inside footage, so plan that also) My tackroom/med/feed room is the same size, enclosed, insulated, heated in the winter. Have a sink, counter and did I mention heat in there? Grin. My guys get the rest of the barn for working on vehicles, and a shop.

Somethings I would do over: Beg, scream, threaten, whatever it takes, to have a hydrant right where the water tank is. Even one hose in the winter is a pain! Better yet, pipe in for automatic waters before cement is poured, even if you can't afford the waters now or think they don't matter.

Stairs if there is storage above: My husband wants to move them to one of the stalls and cut that stall down in size as hay makes a mess on their part of the barn. Better yet, one less horse and use that stall for storage of forks, and wheel barrow.

Make the tack room bigger than you think.

Right now you don't think your horses will be in much? Well, I am a 24/7 horses out,leave em natural gal too, but I leave 2 stalls open to the main area always. And I love having 4 good sized stalls during the rainy cold season, when I want to really moniter feed, when I am trimming, etc. Don't know the ages of your horses, but think ahead. I know I'd love to bed and stall my oldest mare every night, and she's only 18 now. I don't have room for bedding though....never thought I'd want to "bed 'em down" but there are times I do and end up just putting extra hay in.

Try to think of every possible thing that could happen in the future. All 4 horses ill at once? Or just 2? Can 2 stalls be made into a big one in a matter of minutes?

I know I am not answering your question about ventilation; my stalls all have half doors, the stall ceilings go up to the roof, we have very thin insulation sheets on them to help with noise. Hail on the roof in a metal barn is really, really, loud! I do wish I had the top part of the doors on for those 5-6 times a year that the wind blows snow or rain in, but it's not that big of a deal really.

Another thing I'd like is a big sliding door seperating the horse part from the "shop" part. That would also prevent horses from going down the aisle and out into the yard if they get out of a stall, away from me or the kids. O.k., really I'd like 5 more stalls, and 5 more horses, and the guys build their own shop...but nadda gonna happen.

Screens on barn windows??? Wow, lucky horses!!!!!
Member:
mleeb

Posted on Thursday, Jul 16, 2009 - 7:35 am:

Well, I was just re-reading my posting from last year on this barn, and decided maybe it was time for an update.

We DID build the barn.

I'm totally and completely happy with it.

The building dimensions were 36 X 48, still with the nice "porch" overhang facing the house. I had to argue that bit with the contractors who kept wanting to know why I wanted it. I couldn't figure out why they cared, so long as I was paying for it. "Purely cosmetic" just wasn't working for them. I'm very glad I stuck to it and put it on (like there was any question I wouldn't), because it makes the building so beautiful compared to what it would have been, and it's sure nice to be standing under there when it rains.

Anyway, back the main building. My husband got half for his shop, west side, and I got half for my barn, east side, giving us each 24x36. He has a 12' sliding door on the south wall in his half, so the tractor goes in and out there, or whatever needs fixing. I also get to keep my pile of hay over there, and it's right next to the door for easy unloading off the truck. Through that door it's a short 40' feet or so to get to the manure pile. On my barn side, I have 4 tie stalls on the south side of the alley, and a box stall and tack room on the north side. I have an 8' sliding door on the east end of the barn for horse access (but I can easily lead them through the 12' as well). Entrance to the barn from the house direction is through the tack room, insulated, heated, and with running water. We built it with 8' walls, and made the ceiling strong enough for storage above it (the barn has 12' walls). There's a ladder on the outside of the tack room to get up there.

We went with a ridge cap for roof venting, as it gave us a long continuous vent, and put vents under the eaves as well so air can rise up along the ceiling. The barn side has 3 windows, the shop side has 2. I've found that if I leave the screens off, we never notice the flies. With the screens on, they get trapped inside and bounce off the windows. Even with all the windows and doors open, and the horses tied inside, there are still nearly no flies to pester them.

We put kick boards all around to a height of about 4 1/2 feet. The box stall shares the outer wall of the tack room, and on that we put a tall metal flashing at the bottom, folding under the wall, with the gravel footing about 2" high against it. Overlapping the flashing to a height of 4 1/2' we put a sheet of some kind of white plastic board that is commonly used in barns around here. I didn't want moisture to rot my tack room from the outside in.

We have a window in the box stall, and we put a simple grill made of re-bar over it. There is a top and bottom frame with holes drilled in, and the bars just DrOp into place. They're easily removable in case I want someone to wash my windows...

We didn't insulate the barn, and in the winter I didn't miss it. Warmer would have been nicer, for sure, but just being out of the wind made such a difference on it's own. In the hot, hot days of summer, I think that's when I will wish for insulation. I'm going to put in a couple of fans instead, probably just the portable type, and see how that works.

Our electrician installed a new type of fluorescent lighting on the shop side. I've always hated fluorescents, but these things are so nice, for the first few weeks we would just stand there staring up at them. They are VERY bright, consume very little energy, and come on quickly even when it's -40. On the barn side I put plain jane covered outdoor lights flats against the walls, about 10' high. They aren't bright, but I'm not fixing engines in there, I'm feeding hay so they work just fine for me. We put a smaller version of the shop fluorescents in the tack room. They are well sealed, so I don't think I'll be cleaning out a lot of flies.

We used PMU stalls for the tie stalls. We bought a connected row of 4 steel stalls, brought them home, cut off the mangers, cut out the waterers, cut off the overhead frame work (it was for the harnesses), replaced the wood floors, dividers, and manager fronts (backs?) with new 2" lumber, sanded, painted, positioned them in the barn, and welded the mangers back on. Unfortunately, with the mangers on it wouldn't have fit through the door. I don't miss the lack of water bowls, as I rarely seem to water the horses while they are in the barn. They never stay in for more than 1-3 hours, just long enough to grain the yearling and give her some TLC and stall time.

The box stall still has no front, and I was going to get one made, but I am enjoying the convenience of using 2 gate panels so much that it might never happen. The box stall is next to the door, and I can open the panels out to the door, and the box stall becomes a run-in for the horses. Very convenient.

All in all, I really would't change a thing. I have no problems with condensation, which was a big concern. My floor is gravel, and I will eventually buy rubber mats for it. I want to build a sliding gate for the inside of the barn doors so that access is blocked, but the air and light isn't. That would be ideal for keeping the dog out when I'm not watching, and keeping a horse in if they became untied. I'm also pondering hanging shade/bug screen for the big doors, but it doesn't seem to be a necessity just yet. We're having a very cold summer so far, really disappointing for us humans, but it's limiting the insect population. I haven't even seen a stable fly or mosquito yet, although the bulldogs finally emerged last week on 2 warm days.

All in all, it's working out great. Like most construction projects, it went over budget, but we're all so darn happy with how it turned out, no one cares too much anymore.
Member:
mleeb

Posted on Thursday, Jul 16, 2009 - 7:38 am:

Ahh, forgot to mention that we did put lighting on the outside of the barn, as well as rain gutters (horse protected) and weeping tile on the lower north side. All that mud protection worked so well, I didn't even notice it until I went to a couple of other people's yards this spring and realized that they and their horses were all knee deep. I hadn't even taken my rubber boots out the basement.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Jul 16, 2009 - 8:24 am:

Michelle,

It sounds wonderful! I hope you post some pictures, PLLLEEEEEAASE??

Hubby is working on our barn again this summer. He just put a ceiling over what will be his wood shop, and I am sorting through boxes of books and Christmas decorations, and house "overflow" from the garden shed, that he will put above his shop.

This is the fun part I think; getting shelves, and storage organizers for the tools and all the stuff you need for life in the country.

One thing about these big projects is they are always evolving I think. We might add a dog kennel on the west side of the barn next. And your post reminded me we have to get lights up yet on the outside of the barn.

Congratulations on a job well done! Enjoy!
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Thursday, Jul 16, 2009 - 12:23 pm:

It sounds wonderful. especially the no mud part.
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