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nitro
Member
Username: nitro
Post Number: 7
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 7, 2008 - 12:08 pm: |   |
We moved to Central Texas (Austin area) from NY three years ago, and always had our horse vaccinated for Rabies with no problems. My vet in Texas tries to dissuade me from using the Rabies vaccine because he says the chances for anaphylactic reaction are too risky and that he's never heard of a horse getting rabies. He doesn't vaccinate his horses for rabies. We live in the country and have every animal and rodent imaginable - so I say vaccinate. I Never had a vet tell me this before. Is it true, that the likelihood of a horse getting bit by a rabid animal is slim and none? Please advise. Thank you! |
Wiley Gillmor
Member
Username: wgillmor
Post Number: 97
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 7, 2008 - 12:38 pm: | |
Nitro,
You will probably want to DrO's advice, but the AAEP vaccination guidelines say:
Rabies is an infrequently encountered neurologic disease of equids. While the incidence of rabies in horses is low, the disease is invariably fatal and has considerable public health significance. It is recommended that rabies vaccine be a core vaccine for all equids.
...
Three vaccines are licensed for rabies prophylaxis in horses. All are inactivated tissue culture derived products. The vaccines are given by intramuscular injection and appear to be safe. Rabies is an excellent immunogen and these vaccines induce a strong serologic response after a single dose.
Wiley |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1650
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 7, 2008 - 1:05 pm: | |
My experience with the rabies vaccine has been that the brand makes a big difference. Fort Dodge brand always leaves my horses with bad reactions; swelling for days after. In my state, MI, I can legally do the vaccination myself, but if an animal I vaccinated hurt someone, it wouldn't be recognized. (thinking dog here)
I also checked and found out that rabies hadn't been reported for many years here. So, check with like the county extension office, or perhaps a web search of incidents of rabies in Texas to see if there have been any recent (like last 10 years) of rabies in wildlife or pets.
My philosophy is I try to vaccinate for anything that has a good chance of being fatal. I also consider how likely it is that my horse will get whatever. I am not doing to rabies anymore, but do West Nile because that seems to be a bigger threat right now. |
Wiley Gillmor
Member
Username: wgillmor
Post Number: 98
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 7, 2008 - 5:00 pm: | |
I should mention that my veterinarian requires us to vaccinate for rabies. When he was in Vet School he was exposed to a Rabid horse, and had to go through the prophylactic shots. He says if you don't want to vaccinate there are other vets.
I'm sure that things like this are the reason the AAEP guidelines say "has considerable public health significance."
Wiley |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2003
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 7, 2008 - 7:59 pm: | |
Nitro if your horses have had the vaccine before with no problems I would vaccinate them. While the incidence is low, rabies is a terrible disease that could be passed to you or others if per chance they would get it. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 20425
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 7, 2008 - 10:46 pm: | |
Nitro,
If rabies is in your area you should vaccinate for it. I have given tens of thousands of rabies vaccinations without any substantial rate of local reactions and certainly not one anaphylaxis (I do use the Fort Dodge product). I do not know of any research to back up your vet's opinion that I am aware of.
Looking at this from the other side, a local veterinarian and 6 others here were exposed to a rabid horse that presented as a choke and it is only by the smallest chance this horse got tested after dieing, properly diagnosed, so those exposed could get treatment. If you are exposed and develop symptoms there is no treatment for you. and horses with rabies often present with peculiar symptoms that are not easily pegged as rabies.
DrO |
Elizabeth Kaufman
Member
Username: ekaufman
Post Number: 462
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 7, 2008 - 11:03 pm: | |
Hi DrO,
Would you mind offering us your thoughts on the conditional phrase "if rabies is in your area?" In Northern Colorado, we have no "terrestrial" rabies, though it is found in bats (who tend to end up terrestrial when they are sick, as far as I know). In general, people here do not vaccinate horses for rabies.
I vaccinate my horses for rabies on the theory that it's coming, even if it isn't here yet. My vet thinks I'm nuts, though in a harmless sort of way. Is there some good scientific reason to think any part of the contiguous US will remain rabies free?
- Elizabeth |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 20429
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 8, 2008 - 6:32 am: | |
I am not familiar with the conditions in your area Elizabeth so am uncertain what the risk of the bats is to your horses. Since vaccines are not harmless (there is a small potential for adverse reactions) and cost money, if there is no risk to your horse then you should not vaccinate.
DrO |
Wiley Gillmor
Member
Username: wgillmor
Post Number: 99
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 8, 2008 - 8:33 am: | |
Elizabeth,
This is from the Colorado Department of Health web page on Rabies (http://www.cdphe.state.co.us/dc/zoonosis/rabies/):
In Colorado, the primary reservoir for rabies is the bat. Instances of rabies among other wild and domestic animals are rare. Rodents and lagomorphs (hamsters, guinea pigs, squirrels, rabbits, and hares) have never been positive for rabies in Colorado and are rarely positive anywhere in the country. The last reported cases of rabies occurred in Colorado in the following animals: dog (2003 - imported from Texas), cat (1985), raccoon (1963), fox (2005), skunk (1994), and human (1931). The last case of dog rabies acquired in Colorado occurred in 1974.
I don't know if that is no risk to your horse, but it is low risk. The fox in 2005 is worrisome, since foxes live in suburban and rural areas.
Wiley |
Elizabeth Kaufman
Member
Username: ekaufman
Post Number: 463
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 8, 2008 - 9:19 am: | |
Thanks DrO and WIley,
I don't want to hijack nitro's thread, but I have 2 follow-up questions:
1) Is rabies a disease that is considered geographically stable, or is it spreading?
2) I vaccinated my daughter against polio, even though I have never personally seen a case in my life. I justified this in 2 ways-- that we vaccinate for things we can't heal (if we can), and that diseases are controlled by vaccinated populations, not individuals. How is the rationale different for horses?
Not trying to be confrontational. I'm just genuinely baffled by livestock vaccination conventions. Why would I worry about EIA and not rabies? |
Wiley Gillmor
Member
Username: wgillmor
Post Number: 100
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 8, 2008 - 11:23 am: | |
Elizabeth,
I can give a little background concerning your item 1) but your other questions are something for experts (like DrO), not onlookers like me. As you can infer from above, I do vaccinate my horse for rabies and I do live in Colorado.
On item 1) here is a quote from the 2006 rabies surveillance report from the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/ or specifically http://www.cdc.gov/rabies/docs/rabies_surveillance_us_2006.pdf):
"Rabies virus infections of terrestrial animals in the United States occur in geographically definable regions where virus transmission is primarily between members of the same species. Spillover infection from these species to other animals occurs, but rarely initiates sustained transmission in other species. Once established, enzootic virus transmission within a species can persist regionally for decades or longer."
Against this, if the surveillance summary indicates that the incidence (but not the distribution) is growing. In Colorado, foxes, raccoons and coyotes living in suburban and rural areas are a concern, if the disease should break out.
Wiley |
Wiley Gillmor
Member
Username: wgillmor
Post Number: 101
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 8, 2008 - 11:27 am: | |
Sorry, the last Paragraph above should be:
Against this, the surveillance summary indicates that the incidence (but not the distribution) is growing. In Colorado, foxes, raccoons and coyotes living in suburban and rural areas are a concern if the disease should break out. |
Melissa Boschwitz
Member
Username: amara
Post Number: 439
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 8, 2008 - 5:42 pm: | |
Hi Nitro,
I live in North Central Texas and we just had an incident with a rabid bat and school children who handled it who now have to get the shots. While bat to horse is possibly a stretch, I am surprised to hear of a vet that says dont vaccinate for rabies. My vet says its not required in this state for horses, but he certainly doesnt dissuade me from doing it. I dont vaccinate for a whole lot of diseases but that is one that I do yearly. |
Linda H. Schilkowsky, DVM
Member
Username: lindas
Post Number: 11
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 8, 2008 - 11:19 pm: | |
As a small animal vet who has personally seen two cases of rabies in cats, and a case in vet school in a horse, I believe that all domestic mammals who potentially have close contact with humans should be vaccinated for rabies. And yes, rabid bats will bite horses...you will never know that they have been bitten because the bite wounds are so small. I worked on horses the first two years of my career, and do vaccinate my own horses for rabies. I don't ever recall seeing anaphylaxis that can be directly traced to a rabies vaccine in any species. Of course, usually we give several vaccines at once, so how can you tell for sure which one caused the anaphylaxis? Remember that rabies is 100% fatal once you develop symptoms, and humans can catch this deadly disease from contact with the saliva. (Anybody ever stuck your fingers in your horse's mouth with a cut on your hand?) It is simply not worth the risk to not vaccinate. |
Lilo
Member
Username: lilo
Post Number: 767
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 9, 2008 - 9:41 am: | |
Yikes - you have me scared now. My horses just got vaccinated with a 5-way and West Nile Virus vaccine - but have never been vaccinated against Rabies.
I live in Colorado and we have bats, foxes, raccoons and skunks around the house and barn.
I think I will talk to my vet ...
Lilo |
Linda H. Schilkowsky, DVM
Member
Username: lindas
Post Number: 13
Registered: 2-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 9, 2008 - 10:44 pm: | |
Sorry, Lilo...I didn't mean to scare you!! I guess personal experience has made me very passionate about this subject. In North Carolina we have had a smoldering rabies problem for several years. My large animal vet was exposed to a rabid calf a few months ago and had to be treated. I had to be treated 5 years ago after examining and treating a 6 week old kitten that came in with a fever that progressed to full blown rabies...fortunately I had pre-exposure vaccination so I only had to have 2 shots. I have euthanized several puppies and unvaccinated dogs that were bitten by infected raccoons or foxes. Two days ago one of my clients shot a raccoon in her tack room that was drooling, aggressive, and uncoordinated. Unfortunately they shot the animal in the head so it could not be tested. I had to tell her that her 10 unvaccinated barn cats were at risk. Her horses had recently had their rabies boosters, thank goodness. Probably the best thing to do is to check with your health authorities, wildlife officials, or state veterinarian to find out if wildlife rabies has been reported in your state. If it has I would definitely vaccinate all your animals for rabies. Sorry to hijack Dr. O's site. We probably had the same professor for infectious disease as we went to the same vet school around the same time. The teacher is one of the leading experts on rabies in the world. And of course we both remember everything he ever taught us!!!  Dr. O is the horse expert here, and I'm like you, one of his "students" so I'll give this site back to him!
Linda |
nitro
Member
Username: nitro
Post Number: 8
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 11, 2008 - 2:29 pm: | |
Thank you, one and all, for your timely and well-informed replies. I'm having my horse vaccinated for rabies next Tuesday! |
