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Discussion on Flares cracks and long toes
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Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2420
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2008 - 6:46 am: |   |
Dr.O. My farrier seems to have fallen off the earth, anyone that uses him hasn't heard from him.
Hanks feet are way over due and look really bad, the long toe is making him slightly ouchy and he is landing toe first again. I am contemplating trimming him myself, but his hoof is NOT normal and I am worried I may really lame him. He's been doing very good until these long toes, flares. His quarters have broken out and are actually self trimming pretty well. His toes are getting big cracks in them.
How do you tell with a stretched white line where to trim to. I would rather just rasp if this is possible. I'm not real confident and he is just so touchy about his hooves. Would rasping thin the walls too much and cause more cracking? It looks like he could loose a good amount of toe, but from experience I know too much leaves him sore.
I can post pics this evening if that would help you help me, Thanks |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1812
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2008 - 7:18 am: | |
Diane,
If you'd like you can email me and I may have someone who can give you advice. This lady has been really helpful in my journey to trimming myself and I can ask her to give you advice. I am thinking that it may be in Hanks best interest if you took over lightly rasping every week; with help of course.
Just a thought.
It is very satisfying to know you are doing your horses feet as nature intended. Feet staying in shape from natural wear, only the wear is from us rasping on a regular basis.
fancy4j@gmail.com |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2421
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2008 - 7:35 am: | |
Thanks Angie, I wish Hanks feet were as simple as rasping . With the wet conditions, missing a trim, and the weird rubbery, stretched white line, I'm afraid any suggestions to get his hooves straightened out would be way over my head.
Somehow I would like to at least get his toes back and remove the flares. I will post pics tonight just to show you the challenge. I believe I am probably capable of in between raspings, but right now he is way over due for a trim. Then there is the thin soles too. I just hope the farrier calls soon, or I will have to find another and that is NOT easy around here. |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1814
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2008 - 8:12 am: | |
"Simple as rasping" well, in nature they are rasped by the environment. I felt over my head for the first year doing my own. I took heels down too far, then let toes get too long and had to get heels back under the horses. And 2 of the 4 have flares that I fight all the time. I would do the trims, take pictures, email them to my new found friend, and she'd tell me everything that was wrong. I used to cry in frustration! I'd think the hooves looked good, she'd say NOPE. Some things I thought I'd never understand!
Taking toes back is rasping vertically. Nothing off the toe at the bottem.
Flares are caused by an area that is too long, like on quarters. They should be a tad shorter than the rest of the hoof wall.
Flares can be caused by bars not being done correctly.
The hardest thing for me to grasp was taking the bars down, DOWN CORRECTLY. "Scooping them back" so as to lower the bars, bringing the heel point back, but not lowering the heels too much!!!
Ah, your head is spinning now?? I know the feeling! BUT, once you start to see it, and start to see PROGRESS, it clicks in your head and the hooves will improve. My little flat footed mare who stood with her front and back feet under her too far, is standing square now. Her feet are hard, even though they are white hooves.
My gelding who I took the heels down too low on, he's looking great now too. Even Tango with his big feet, he's doing well too. No lameness for going on 2 years.
Read, read, and study the articles on the barefoot sites!
Diane, If I can do this, you can do this. Hank will thank you by being sound, with nice hoofies!
I am still learning, and wouldn't want to be the main person to guide you of course.
O.k., I am done preaching now. It is exciting though to know I am doing my horses hoofs on a weekly or biweekly basis, and those tweaks are fantastic for their health. (When waiting for results though, every 3-4 weeks is a better schedule) |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2423
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2008 - 3:00 pm: | |
I wonder if the farrier reads HA. He called and is coming tonight at 7 Thank goodness.
Angie I think I may rasp on Hank once the farrier get a decent trim on him, he usually leaves his toe too long IMO, but at least the major part of it will be gone and much easier for me to maintain.
I am afraid if I start I will become obsessed with it And I have too much obsessing my mind now! Thanks |
Julie Masner
Member
Username: juliem
Post Number: 433
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2008 - 4:15 pm: | |
Here are two very good sites to start the obsessing: The first is a detailed description of how to trim that you can modify so that you only need a rasp and it has lots of photos: http://www.ironfreehoof.com/top.htm
This one deals with flares, go to the menu for Flares, you will find the answer to lots of your questions here: http://www.barefoothorse.com/ |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2425
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2008 - 5:14 pm: | |
LOL Julie I have read and re-read those websites...it's courage I lack .
Hanks hooves are so touchy, it is very easy to make him sore with to short a trim, or if he is left too long.
The barefoot trimmer I had yrs. ago was great, Hanks hooves could not have LOOKED better, but he was always lame. That farrier always said he had thin flexible soles and finally gave up and we put shoes on him. My vet calls his hooves a challenge at the very least and this was all BEFORE he foundered. I would have no problems messing with my other horses hooves, but ol' Hank is way too touchy for my skills, with him finally being sound (for him) barefoot I would really hate to mess it up. Thanks for the website I always appreciate your input.
HMMM I just saw at the bottom here Dr.O. is going to be unavailable until 7/21...did I miss something? |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2430
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 17, 2008 - 8:42 pm: | |
The farrier just left and I voiced my concerns to see what he thought about Mr. sensitive hooves. He got more aggressive and took more toe off then usual, his hooves LOOK really good. However (this is going to be hard to believe) it was storming so hard I couldn't walk him around to see if he was sore. Tomorrow will tell the tale. I hope he can walk on his pretty hooves tomorrow |
Fran C
Member
Username: canter
Post Number: 1572
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 7:24 am: | |
Keeping my fingers crossed, Diane, that Hank is walking soundly this morning! |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1816
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 7:37 am: | |
Pictures please of the new trim!
And obsessing is good! Do you think you are the only one who does that? Since I started trimming, I head out to ride and look at hoofs, and end up getting the rasp and hoof knife out! After I do one horse, then I look at the other 3 with a critical eye, see I can tweak a little here or there, and pretty soon horse number 2 is in the cross ties.
BUT, it is really easier to do a tweak here and there, instead of trying to rasp a complete trim every 4 weeks. I don't think I can do anything with nippers as my hands/wrists are weak, so I CAN NOT let the hoofs get too long.
The sites Julie has listed are wonderful.
And speaking of obsessing, I have piles of pages I've printed out from websites like those Julie suggested.
And pages of pictures of my horses feet taken at all angles. And pages of pictures with those pictures "marked up" by the gal who offered to help me. And p of p's of other peoples horses hoofs....you get the picture? LOL!!!
And the pile is beside the lazy boy in here, where it's been all winter and every so often I go through it and study the pictures. Oh, I read too, haha!
One last thing & I'll quit hogging your post here; if you tweak Hank's hoofs regularly, his soles will hopefully toughen up as they'll stay closer to the ground! Of course it'll help if it quits raining and stays dry for more than a day or 2. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2433
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 8:07 am: | |
When I fed... Hank is tender and his digital pulses are up with a little heat . This is what happens when he is trimmed as he should be. When I discussed it with the farrier I asked if he thought he would be sore and he said hard telling with Hank...which is true. I cleaned his hooves this morning to get a closer look and I do think he did a good job. I will take pics this afternoon if it isn't raining and I can get the mud off good enough. I would love opinions.! The farrier did say it appeared as if he did not have wld which was good news anyway. I plan on giving him bute for a few days...is that a bad idea? My thinking with the elevated pulses and slight heat he has some inflammation going and I DON'T want to set of any laminitis.
I DO read all the stuff I can on hooves, I guess I am obsessed, just don't apply it physically. First thing I look at on a horse are their hooves!
This stuff just doesn't seem to apply to Hank completely anyway . |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2435
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 5:05 pm: | |
OK HELP. Hank is quite sore tonight, I am going to give him some bute. The first pics are right after his prior trim, so you can only imagine what they looked like at 8 weeks...I usually have him on a 5-6 week schedule.
Right after Trim early June (he was ouchy after this one too) but not as bad.
Yesterdays trim, sorry about the quality, but he could not stand long with one hoof up...a very bad sign IMHO.
 |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1817
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 5:38 pm: | |
Diane,
In the 2nd picture it looks like he's had the toe rolled too far back onto his sole. Second picture from the most recent trimming. Looks like the farrier wants him to develope a toe callus by forcing it. It also looks like he's high on the quarters, and needs his heel point brought back, but not his heel lowered. MY big downfall is getting that right. And the poor horse has no walls. I don't think the bars look correct either, but, BUT, it is so hard to tell from pictures.
I really would love to fw them to the gal who is helping me and get her thoughts as she is more qualified than I am. If you want me to ask her opinion, please email the pictures.
If you do that, you must lay the camera right on the floor, Prefer cement surface, take shots from the sides, rear and front of EACH hoof. And make sure to get a straight on shot from the heel to the toes, better even than your last picture.
It's helpful to mark each hoof with magic marker: RF, LF, RH, LH, on the bottom, and if you are saving them on the computer, with the dates, you'll have a wonderful record also of the progress or lack of progress.
Besides helping Hank, I'd learn too from her comments. If she will comment; she hasn't seen any new pics from me for a few months so she's probably getting antsy for new shots to look at!
I'd have to email them back to you and ask her permission to have you post them on here. She is a professional after all. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2436
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 8:30 pm: | |
THANKS Angie, first off let me say I can NOT take good hoof pics no matter how hard I try!.
Now I will try to explain this trimming dilema. If you will notice in the !st set of pics farrier left wall longer at the toe, EXCEPT Hanks wall just flares right out flat soon as it touches the ground. The white line is so stretched there is nothing to hold it there is the only thing I can figure. So in my thinking anyway somehow we have to get that WL bond back with the wall, we can not leave it stretched like that. So to put it in simple terms wall at toes hit ground and splat, big flare immediately. That's why I thought he may have WLD. (and maybe he does).
SOOO the cure to this I THINK, and I have studied is to keep that wall at the toe from hitting the ground and pulling the white line. To keep the horse from getting too sore you must move break over back so he is not having abducting forces there. (he is landing heel first again).
NOW we have to deal with the thin sole thing, so I think that's why farrier leaves a little more wall at quarters and heels, which in turn leave the quarters to break out by there selves...usually about 3 weeks after trim....but by then he is usually doing pretty good and the whole stinkin cycle starts again!!!
I do know the farrier didn't do a perfect job, but his hooves LOOK so much better and the toe flare is gone....until that wall hits the ground!
Pictures just don't tell the whole story. We are dealing with thin soles, founder fall out, and crappy hooves in general....
The cure is shoes YES shoes, he is so much more comfortable in them, but I want to avoid them for now if I can, he's not being ridden and they are next to impossible in the winter with these hills and ice. SO what I want to do is put him on a 4 week schedule MAX keep that WL from stretching and cross my fingers he doesn't stay in a continual state of soreness, if he does the shoes will have to go on, but I am going to give this a try for the next couple mos. and see if it works out.
Does that make sense????? I do need help, I am so way off base sometimes it is not good
|
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1819
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 9:28 pm: | |
Diane,
I just got an email from my helper friend (on equine massage, great article) and I told her about your troubles some what, and asked if she would have advice if she saw pictures.
I am thinking a few things based on your last post and what she has tried to drum into my non receptive thick skull:
What causes flares is pressure from somewheres, correct? On the quarters, it may mean that part of the wall isn't short enough. Or the bars are flaring out and pushing the wall out.
On the toe, again, the bars can be building up towards the front? It's hard to understand, but it seems those dang bars cause more headaches and it don't get solved by just cutting them down to the sole, it's more complicated and I am not in position to explain what I don't understand 100%.
I was backing up the toes, backing up the toes, and BACKING up the toes..and the heels were still underslung. WHY? Because the bars were not being trimmed and were pushing the toe back OUT! (and it looked like they are done well in the first set of pics, not sure on the 2nd set) Once I got that, ta da, mare is standing normal. Still flat footed, we're working on waiting for change there.
If the toe is flaring, that is why I, IMHO, you should be rasping that toe back 2x a week, rasping vertically only, nothing on the under side of the toe. Or at least touching up the roll...that might be better with his thinner walls. Now, if it's rasped back to the white line right now, then of course he will be sore and you can't do that.
If the bars are not passive, he will be sore. It's hard to have the bars curved just right, ending in the right spot, etc. They are MY nightmare!
If I understand it correctly, you want the horse to land heel first, then the toe, and the reason you do the mustang roll is because you don't want the outer wall to land first at the toe, and I think the roll looks wrong on the pics and the sole of toe would land first? That could hurt.
Why would you want the quarters to break off? They should not be long enough to break off. The hoof has to land heel first, the bars are passive at first, if the bars are hitting same time as the quarters, that will push the quarters out too. The bars take impact too, but it follows a distinct order of operations, as does the sole. Man, I wish I could remember some of the good articles I've read on hoof function, it helps to understand that. Maybe if I live to be 100 I'll get it, but...well, it's complicated.
And how would shoes help? Where will they be nailed on those thin walls? And how does the hoof expand with iron on it? AHA, yup, the barefoot folks got that in my brain but good, lol!
Phew, my BP is starting to go up here, better quit! 
Good luck. Keep reading those hoof articles! |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2438
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 10:29 pm: | |
I just wish I could take better pics.
I will try tomorrow again after he has had some bute. Although I have to add I sat and watched him tonight from the deck...before bute, and it actually looks like it is his back hooves that are bothering him. The pulses in the front are greatly diminished and the heat is gone. The backs still have a pretty good pulse. He had some major flaring going on in them also....not at the toe at the heel and the farrier took them off. I will have to examine the rears tomorrow, as I'm fairly convinced now that they may be the sore ones.
He keeps lifting the left rear and resting it, way more than normal. He is slightly off in front too, but I think better than before his trim (in front).
I don't know why his walls have become so thin, one thing he use to have was a good thick wall if nothing else, but even with the thin walls he never looses a shoe. I wonder if it isn't the wet conditions, does that thin the wall? I know it can weaken it.
I will not read any more hoof articles, talk about confusing. I think I have read every article available (a couple of times). There are just too many opinions some make sense, some don't. One conclusion I have come to is every horse is different, what works for one don't always work for the other. Just got to keep on trying to find the "comfort zone"
Thanks Again |
Leilani
Member
Username: leilani
Post Number: 462
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 10:29 pm: | |
Diane,
I feel your pain. We are in our rainy season now and when it rains at night I have nightmares about feet. My 2 mares are barefoot and the other 4 I care take have shoes either on all four or just the fronts.
Are you using anything to counter the wet weather? I swear by Keratex. I use it religiously both the gel and the hoof hardner and I have had no problems with my mares' feet in the past 1.5 years. I do their feet 2x a day and always after a ride. I still ride Anuhea in boots because of the rocks in our pasture.
Angie, your information is right on. I hope someday to be brave enough to trim my horses' feet myself. I am good at telling the farrier what I want, but can't seem to do it myself.
It very sad to see the farrier struggle every 5 weeks with finding a good part of the hoof wall to nail on Polu and then his feet still look like crap. I've said my piece and my mares are proof - nothing else I can do. Take care. Leilani |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2439
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 10:33 pm: | |
Thanks Leilani, I will look into the Keratex, I have read good things about it. The rain and mud are a nightmare I wish it would stop, I think that would help things along a little better. |
Leilani
Member
Username: leilani
Post Number: 463
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 10:55 pm: | |
Diane,
Purchase the Keratex directly from Keratex. Their prices are the best and the they don't try to make money off of the shipping.
Rain, it's what make my pastures green and lush, but also causes havoc with my horses' feet. We tend to get about 65" a year. I dread the rainy season, but keep it to myself. Leilani |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1820
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 9:54 am: | |
Diane,
Boy, talk about frustrating troubles, huh?
Have you tried equine massage? Last fall when I wasn't sure if my trimming was causing Cody discomfort, or if he had hurt himself when I saw him "bobble" his ankle in the pasture, I spent months after agonizing over my trimming of his hind feet. I knew I had gotten the heels too low, but it seemed only one foot/leg was bothering him so I didn't make sense.
I ordered the DVD called Equine Massage for Performance Horses by Jim Masterson. The first time I tried it, and just the first part of it, Cody stopped resting that leg! In fact, he sooo loved what I was doing it made me cry! It made such a difference I couldn't believe it. I only wish someone had filmed it!
FYI, it was something in his shoulder/wither area that stopped his discomfort. So if you once know if it's his feet or not, causing problems, then you can move to other areas. But HOOVES MUST BE IN THE BEST SHAPE POSSIBLE or the other things, like massage or chiro, won't solve the problem.
So if you are leary of tweaking his hoofs, and nothing wrong with that; you know yourself best, you can do massage and it will only help. You cannot do it "wrong" and mess up anything!
A helpful aid to the dvd is the little book called "Beating Muscle Injuries for Horses" by Jack Meagher. I found that the combo of the 2 helped me do the massage. I also made lots of copies of an outline of a horse and put notes on there as I went through the DVD, and put the papers in plastic sleeves to refer to as I was doing the massage. My horses are used to me having "notes" as I work around them, I think they think I am the real geek type, lol!!!
One last note, my friend would look at photos if you send me some. She would advise, and probably take the time to mark up some of the photos. She won't at this time though, take you on as a long distance client as you are not interested in trimming yourself at this point anyhow.
I hope you will consider getting some new photos and emailing them to me. At least then you will know if he is being trimmed the best possible under the conditions. Any Ya Hoo can got to farrier school and start trimming, but not all of them are the best at it. Speaking from experience, had one that always left the horses "ouchie" afterwards.
One last thing, I think my old farrier moved to your state...if I can find out where, I'll let you know. He wasn't going to trim any more, but I know if asked he'd probably at least look and advise.
Give Hank a big hug from me and my herd! |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2446
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 10:14 am: | |
Thanks Angie, I do massage Hank...don't know if I do it right or not, but boy he loves it. He lets it all hang out and follows me around everywhere after...he is a strange beast.
The farrier I have now is not the best, but he is trying his heart out with this horse! And very open to suggestions. He actually has brought him a long way from where he started, I think this last tidbit of getting rid of the stretched WL is going to be the problem, he does not like to take him as short as he did, he knows short = lame on Hank, but if we don't get that WL tightened up there will NEVER be any improvement and obviously the conservative route isn't working.
On a good note he seemed better today, but it rained the ground is soft and I have been giving him bute, I just saw him canter up the hill in the pasture. I am going to continue with the bute for a couple days and see what happens when removed.
I Will TRY very hard to get some good pics, but don't hold your breath. I could use some guidance now and would appreciate your hoof gurus input. Thanks |
Julie Masner
Member
Username: juliem
Post Number: 435
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 12:49 pm: | |
Boy, I hope you and Angie will keep everything on this thread regarding the hoof guru's comments, etc. so we can all follow along and learn. Please don't "go dark" and leave us wondering how the boy is doing. Hank is really a puzzle and those are the horses that teach us the most! Some comfort huh Diane? Anxious to see what she says and to see your pictures. I guess you need to add a photo studio to your wish list! |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1822
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 1:45 pm: | |
Great Diane,
I was hoping you say you'd let my "guru" comment. I have no clue why this woman offered to help me, but she's been a GodSend for me. She even made a video clip for me to show what she kept trying to explain to me! There are different terms used by different trimmers, so it can be confusing when for example one says to "scoop to bring the heel point back."
When I take photos, I have my horse(s) in cross ties, and actually lay on the floor to get the shots of front, and back of hoofs when standing square. Camera must be on level surface on floor! Also will need a whole body shot of at least one side view to see how he's standing and hoof/shoulder angle.
Please remember to mark each hoof on the bottom with the RF, LF, etc. BIG BLUE "L" on one side of the sole, and BIG BLUE "F" on the other side of the sole, for example! I take the first picture of the bottom to show the labeled foot. Usually with the foot sitting on my Hoof-It. Then I hold the leg at the cannon bone to let the hoof hang naturally and take another, followed by one with the hoof held so I can get that important shot of the heels, bars and show if they are level. On that photo, you should barely see the sole as you are looking STRAIGHT down the foot from the heel.
If you get a body shot, and front, rear, and at least one front foot and one hind with the different "poses" of the hoof, that would be o.k. for now.
The better the pictures, the easier it is to see potentional trouble. I know I am being a pain here, but I know there is nothing more frustrating than laying on the floor, taking all kinds of pics, only to find they are blurry, or don't show what needs to be shown! And hoofs must be clean too!!!
Now you all know why I don't have time to ride anymore, I am rasping & snapping pictures every time I am in barn!
So try hard to get them, I want to know also what advice she has. And she says she learns from each horse too, so it's a win win situation.
My email is above somewheres.
Need to get back to drugery work here now.
Oh, I asked my hoof friend to join HA, but she declined. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2451
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 2:55 pm: | |
Cross ties, cement, good lighting, CLEAN hooves, level ground?
No wonder I can't take good pics I have none of this! Our driveway is even gravel.
I'll see what I can do tho once it dries up.
Cleaned Hanks hooves out and I still think they look pretty good. I found what looked like an abscess draining in left rear in his frog. That would explain the left rear anyway. Now for the other 3 |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1823
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 3:49 pm: | |
A sheet of plywood, a good strong tree or post, sunshine, and a garden hose? Oh, a bucket hung to at a height to keep his head up for the photo shoot, with some grain and big rocks to keep him occupied.
Melting here, don't think I will try to put a fan up in the barn though...WHY? LOL!
(sometimes I think I should sell the horses and buy some fish...) |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1824
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 5:50 pm: | |
http://thehorseshoof.com/blog/podcast/Entries/2008/7/1_Introduction.html
This is a great video of trimming being done with power tools. My hoof gal sent me the link, and said it showed some good things except she thought the bars were left looking "odd". Takes a long time to load, and I got no video until I clicked on podcast.
Hoofs looked nice when he was done! I can just imagine trying to use power tools on my horses. Need to tranq them first, maybe a good stiff drink for me too! |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2453
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 6:13 pm: | |
Julie, Angie and any hoof gurus Against my better judgement I went and read those 2 websites (again) Julie posted.
There is some new stuff in there since my last visit and of course I am confused.
In ironhoof it sounds like how the farrier at least tried how to trim Hank. He is a sore little puppy, but a little better at least he held his hoof up pretty good. I took some more pics after visiting those websites, Angie they probably are not good enough for your hoof guru but I tried...really. I was getting buckets of drool poured on me, but I hung in there. I think they are better anyway.
Comments please...New Pics.
 |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2454
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 6:17 pm: | |
PS I put betadine on his soles this morning, that's why they are that funky color. |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1825
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 10:01 pm: | |
Much better pictures Diane, G double O D, GOOD JOB! LOL! My teenaged daughter says that, it's a basket ball thing.
Of course if you could turn the 3rd and 4th ones that would help a little bit, but hey, I think my friend will be able to see what is what. Just have to tilt our heads, right?
My friend is in Alaska, so she's busier than heck right now with summer time chores; but I think she'll reply within 24 hours. Might take longer is she decides to draw on each hoof like she does for me.
I think the right side looks higher in one picture but as pictures are 2D, it might not be the case. I do wonder about the bulge I see on the side on the first picture. Different than my 16 hoofs I look at!
A full side shot to see how he stands with his 4 legs/feet would be nice yet if you can force yourself to do another picture. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2457
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 10:55 pm: | |
That bulge is weird, it has been there for awhile, it only shows up in some pics, I don't notice it otherwise. (in person) The only thing I can think of is he had a HUGE abscess blow out his coronary band right about there in 2005 I believe, and I wonder if that is the cause.
Will get the side shot tomorrow...Thanks |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3743
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 - 1:12 am: | |
Diane, I am in awe of your photographic skills! Maybe next photo shoot you could get one showing the pastern/lower leg also? It helps with getting an idea of angles. I've been following all your posts with Hank for the education I'm getting.
Angie - I've always thought of perhaps having earthworms. Fish get fungi, and you are always having to feed them and clean their tanks. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2460
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 - 7:24 am: | |
Ok OK any other shots before I go out in the mud again?. We had 2in of rain in 2 mins last night AGAIN
Seriously though I DO need to get these hooves correct if possible. I was looking through all of the hoof pics I have and he has come a long way, but more often then not he doesn't seem completely sound. Not terrible (like now), but just a little tiny bit off and it is the hooves. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2461
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 - 7:33 am: | |
Also, my other 2 horses hooves look GREAT, so I'm pretty sure it's Hanks hooves and not the farrier where the problem lies. Unless his hooves are just to much for him, but that is who I am stuck with and I do like him very much.
The vet just shakes his head when he looks at Hanks hooves and says they are a challenge at the VERY least....but he can't even take an x-ray right so I take that with a grain of salt |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1826
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 - 8:52 am: | |
Diane,
Here is the feed back from J, my wonderful hoof guru. I just copied and pasted her total reply rather than try to put it into my own words.
Hold on to your hat!
"he is a sore little puppy,but a little better at least he held his foot up pretty good"
Wow! It's ok to be sore as long as he behaves while a farrier sores him ;)
Sorry Ang, I'm a little cynical if I sored a horse it would be all over cyber-space about
those damned Strasser trimmers! ha! A horse who is sore after a trim = NOT OK TRIM-period-
Unless...the horse was sore before trim due to founder, rotation etc.. You always trim to HELP the horse go sound. The trimmer MUST be able to explain why the horse is not comfortable-
Who's trimming him?farrier or barehoof trimmer? (just want to be clear)
Both sets look not so great, but the second set in my opinion are worse- because...whoever trimmed him has cut off too much hoof in all the wrong places namely the vertical height of the toe-
Imagine the LAST picture(the one from the side) if you were to lay the edge of a rasp across at the tip of the frog- so you're laying the rasp up on it's edge across the whole hoof across the tip of the frog...make sense?? you want about 1/4 inch AT LEAST of space, expansion room you know HEIGHT!! this is the space that protects the coffin bone- indicates concavity, sole thickness etc..
Without adequate sole thickness the horse can't walk comfortable- There's noticeable trauma (color) on the sole-Heel height looks ok, as far as I can tell- it's just the hoof needs vertical height-
This horse needs a trimmer who knows how to trim a "Barefoot" trim- A farrier will always take vertical height as that is their training- I don't mean this dis-respectively at all- it's a totally different trim.
Hope this helps
Diane, just to clarify, you say he has thin soles, correct? And he did founder, when? How bad was it? How many times?
PLEASE remember, I am acting as a go between here, and we must all keep in mind that we are looking at pictures, and there are strong opinions out there as to what are the best ways to trim. I think though, this barefoot trimmers view does give one a lot to think about! |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1827
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 - 8:58 am: | |
Sara,
Earthworms is a possibility! Or maybe silkworms? Could I make money off of a pet instead of putting money out all the time?
P.S. Diane,
Not sure if the part about the betadine got sent to my friend, that may by the "bruising" she saw, I'll double check with her. |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 2464
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 - 9:22 am: | |
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