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Lori Martin
Member
Username: Lmmartin
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 3:27 pm: |   |
Ok this might get long but please read and offer a suggestion This past Sat. I noticed my one gelding had a slight limp and the trot. So I checked his leg, hoof, etc I found nothing. Checked him the next day made him trot.he was about the same, he was fine at the lope and a walk. So that day(Sunday) I put him in a small paddock in case he pulled something, so I could limit his horse-n-around. Monday he seemed ok still a little stiff. But it rained most of the day so I didn't ask him to trot or lope much. Checked on him Tuesday, he seemed a little more sore even at the walk. I was thinking abscess and due to the rain and mud it had gotten worse. Plus when I walked him to tie him up when we hit the gravel he was really tender, so I knew it was his foot and not a leg problem. Farrier came out, did a trim and couldn't find anything to think abscess, did the hoof tester thing and all. The only thing he found and he thinks this is what his problem is is that the one bar of his hoof had grown longer than the other side, which was making more pressure on the one side.Said his bars were uneven. So he fix him up and said he will be sore for a few days. (hope you understand that I can't remember all the terms he used)
So I checked on him today and he is really sore, even at the walk and not wanting to put too much weight on that one foot. I'm really worried about him but I'm wanting to believe the farrier and want to give my gelding a few days before I get him to the vet in case farrier is correct, but I'm still thinking the worse and want to take him to the VET ASAP. So does what the farrier said ring true and I should give him a few days????
PLEASE anyone help me |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12881
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 7:10 am: | |
Hello Lori,
We cannot judge if the vet is necessary but recommend you call whenever a disease process is not understood. I personally cannot remember a bar that "grew uneven" resulting in lameness and the history suggests abscess to me too.
DrO |
Lori Martin
Member
Username: Lmmartin
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 1:01 pm: | |
Thanks Dr O, we called the Vet and he said that if the bar were uneven that it could be the problem but if he is not better by Friday to bring him in. Today my gelding seems less sore, he is putting more weight on it and not walking as stiff, so I hope he keeps getting better  |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 818
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 4:03 pm: | |
I do not understand this at all, Lori.
Even if the bar has grown uneven (hard to imagine), removing the excess should almost instantly render the horse sound, not lame! |
Darren Robertson
Member
Username: Unicorn
Post Number: 6
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 7:19 pm: | |
Christos it can be an impacted bar descending.
What this means is the bar appears to have grown faster than anything else. We know this is imposible as the horn of the hoof grows at the same rate all around including both bars.
If you have impacted bars the tissue underneath is deprived of blood flow. If the foot acheives enough function and freedom for the impacted bar to descend the tissue underneath stings with the return of blood pressure. This can make the horse very sore for a week or so. A good trim can promote this change as the hoof is given room for the bar to descend, I don't know of any way to avoid pain with this change in the foot. The tissue that was compressed by the bar is badly damaged and with the return of blood flow is really sensitive.
Regards
Darren |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12927
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 7:42 am: | |
Darren, it is not true that horn grows at the same rate all around. Horn growth is controlled by pressure, the more pressure the slower the growth. That is why he average growth of the heels is substantially less than that of he toe on an average foot.
Also I do not recognize the condition you describe above: an impacted bar.
DrO |
Darren Robertson
Member
Username: Unicorn
Post Number: 10
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 8:56 am: | |
Ok you have to think of the hoof as layers of different structures.
The sole itself is skin the coruims underneath feed the growth of these tissues.
The horn and the laminae wrap around the outer wall of the hoof and the bar coriums grow the bar follicles.
This is fine in a horse that travels long distances every day. When a horse stands around this tissue does no wear away and you end up with the bars touching the ground. If the horse was moving a lot this would assist the removal of excess material.
I have pictures of a wild 10 year old horses hoof that has worn its feet correctly all its life. The bars appears as little hooks from the outside horn and fade in a straight line towards the sulcus.
I have a picture of a set of hoofs that have just completed 160km over rough terrain, these look even better than the wild horses feet.
When you disect hooves this is the precise shape of the internal structures.
Impacted bars are bars where the horn laminae and skin of the sole are pressed together with enough force to compress back into the sole corium.
If you trim the bars down within 24-48 hours you can have 5mm of what seems like new growth but it just the forces holding the bars up into the foot have been removed.
An example of this was an unknown lameness in a horse where if the horses was down for a while it could not put its foot back on the ground until the blood had been pressued away from the sensitve spot. The trimming back of the bars allowed the tissue underneath to reshape back to normal but it is like pins and needles feelings.
Folic growth of the horn is stimulated by pressure. The local endurance people find that after doing an 80km ride they have to trim their horses feet for the next few days, this includes the bar area.
Regards
Darren |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 671
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 10:17 am: | |
Darren, I am curious, where did you get all your veterinary and farrier knowledge? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12932
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 10:46 am: | |
Hello Darren,
2 minor corrections:
1) The corium does not feed the growth of the soles horn, the corium produces the horn.
2) The sole does not have any lamellar structures but the bars do.
I have seen horses standing around in mud for very long periods whose bars grew long and folded back onto the adjacent sole and had to be trimmed away but I have never seen bars that "impact" back into the foot causing lameness.
I cannot find a definition for bar follicles.
DrO |
Darren Robertson
Member
Username: Unicorn
Post Number: 13
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 12:22 pm: | |
Damn the language of the keyboard.
OK when you disect a hoof you will note that the entire horn is actually made up of tiny follicles just like hairs they each grow from a blood rich corium the coronet band feeds the majority of the follicles around the outer perimeter of the hoof. The bar coriums are an extension that sits under the lateral cartlidge and feeds the bar follicles. These can be seen in the hoof as bright red tissue. These follicles all join back to the sole via a lamantic structure which make up the two parts of the white line.
The sole is a disc of skin that is joined at the edges to the white line this then joins to the follicles of the hoof wall. A sole when trimmed will break away in groups cells where as the horn will break away in fibrous hairs if dry enough.
I can photograph a wild horses hoof that I picked up on the weekend. It clearly shows the two types of structures skin and horn. The laminae was basically gone from deteriation.
This laminae or white line can be trapped between the bar and the sole. If left over grown long enough will put pressure back into the sole. The bar being true horn is the stronger and will press on the laminae which is real soft. This then merges with the skin of the sole. If there is enough waste hoof built up this will press back into the soft tissue of the hoof. A lot of this pressure is right on the flexible part of the hoof behind the coffin bone and can be quite painful.
One old mare I saw had been retired for years due to arthritis. After one correct trim the horse walks without any sign of arthritis.
The solar corium feeds the sole which is actually a skin not a horn.
http://www.equinextion.com/id31.html
Has some good pictures of the coriums and their functions.
Regards
Darren |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12948
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 10:56 am: | |
Well let's get the terminology straightened out. My medical dictionary defines "skin" as the dermis and its overlying epidermis. Using this definition both the solar horn with its associated corium and the wall horn with its associated corium are all types of skin so let's drop this as a meaningless differentiation.
The definition of follicles is "a more or less spherical mass of cells usually containing a cavity." In the case of skin the follicles are the cells that produce hair. A better term is "horn tubules" and both the wall's and the sole's horn is composed of them along with a intertubular horn that holds the tubules together. The horn is not produced in follicles but by pappilae of the corium.
After that I loose you completely: "the white line trapped between the bar and sole" and "the bar pressing into the laminae" does not have any meaning to me. My experience is if the bars get too long, as I describe in my post above, it folds over the adjacet sole and does not cause pressure problems like you describe.
DrO |
