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noah
Member
Username: noah
Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 1, 2009 - 2:54 pm: |   |
I'm still going back and forth on what my senior horse should be fed. I have contacted the local representative of the feed I am using, asking the question "What, if anything, should I add to their (Pennfield's) senior grain to keep weight on, rather than increasing the amount of grain he is fed". He replied back that the 2 cups of rice bran pellets I was adding currently, made him worry about hind end acidosis. Can someone tell me what that is before I get back to him? |
Diane E.
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 3739
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 1, 2009 - 6:24 pm: | |
Hi Noah, are you sure he didn't say hindgut acidosis?
If you google that term you will get plenty of hits and I'm sure Dr,O, can help you with it...I've never heard of hindend acidosis, but that doesn't mean anything!
The only other thing I can think of he may have been talking about would be "tying up" ? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22455
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 1, 2009 - 8:01 pm: | |
Hello Noah,
Non-structural carbohydrates (starches, fructans, etc) that make it to the large bowel decrease the ph, primarily through rapid bacterial metabolism of the readily available energy source. This is termed cecal or colonic acidosis and I would guess the ph in the rest of the hindgut is decreased also. Wheat or rice bran is low in total carbs (about 6%) and over half that is fiber so I do not understand his concern...
There are other concerns with the feeding of straight or unbalanced bran and you can read about these at Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Horse Feeds, Feeding » Bran: Wheat and Rice.
DrO |
noah
Member
Username: noah
Post Number: 11
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Monday, Mar 2, 2009 - 7:30 am: | |
Dianne, you were right. He did say hindgut acidosis. Thanks!
Thanks, Dr O, I'll go back and read the article on brans again and perhaps have that in front of me when I call the rep back. |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 986
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Mar 2, 2009 - 8:54 am: | |
Have you considered adding oil to their feed? I find this a simple way of helping the horse gain and keep weight on without making them hot. |
noah
Member
Username: noah
Post Number: 12
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 3, 2009 - 9:40 am: | |
Lori, I have done that in the past and perhaps should try it again. Is that the right kind of fat a senior (25 yr old) would use effectively? He's retired so I don't have to worry about "hot", though your remark brought back many wonderful memories of days when I did! I bought him as a 3-yr old off the track and we did it all....Show Hunters (all the way to West Palm Beach for a season), Dressage, Cross country, trail riding....sorry, going down memory lane here. So I thank you for that!!
I had one scary Spring when he shed out he looked like an Auschwitz survivor! I hope to never see him like that again! This time every year since I start angst-ing over his feed.
Anyway, thanks for the suggestion! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22466
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 3, 2009 - 9:18 pm: | |
Noah, is there any reason you should not simply follow the Golden Rule in the Overview article?
DrO |
3chip
Member
Username: 3chip
Post Number: 11
Registered: 1-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 3, 2009 - 10:44 pm: | |
I believe my wife has Hind End Acidosis! Would a muzzle help? |
noah
Member
Username: noah
Post Number: 13
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, Mar 3, 2009 - 11:43 pm: | |
Good question, Dr. O! I had to stop and think about that, so I went back to the article and here are my thoughts: The Golden Rule of water, salt and forage (with added concentrates/supplements if needed) is no longer working for him.
- He has plenty of water available 24/7
- I'm pretty sure my hay is good as the other younger horses do very well on it. They devour it, leaving only the stemmiest stems and are of good weight this winter. I add an extra flake of a softer orchard grass/alfalfa mix separately to his ration.
- Has access to a salt block in his stall. (I've tried both the block and loose and he prefers the block and I happen to catch him licking it as recently as last week so I know he's still getting his salt when he wants it.)
- He has been fed approx 2 lbs Pennfield Senior sweet feed twice a day. From that, I assume he is getting vitamins/minerals as well.
- He is on very good pasture 23 hrs a day. I know it's good because I have to keep the other horses off of it half the day because they blow up like balloons (obviously I mean in the spring). Even in the winter, my other two are not on grain, just 1 cup of a pelleted vit-min supplement called All-Phase by Pennfield.
There is my dilemma. That seems like a pretty straight forward, no-frills, adequate diet and yet one spring, 2 yrs ago he was skin-and-bones when he shed out. Really, he was probably a 3 on the body scale. That's when I had a full blood work-up done (all normal) and started adding the 2 cups of rice bran pellets per feeding. This winter I can still see his ribs even through his incredibly thick winter coat. I'm afraid of what I will find when he sheds out again and so have started looking for something more to add to pack on the weight without having to add more per feeding or more feedings per day. Maybe there isn't anything. Maybe I should just give him more food?
The Vet who does his dental work has said he has done all he can do for him in that regard but he does have the mouth of a 25 yr old. I see no quidding (just learned about that on this site!) so I assume he is getting the hay chopped enough to get it down.
Perhaps Lori is right and it is something as simple as adding oil to his feed? |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: hollyw
Post Number: 209
Registered: 12-2008
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 4, 2009 - 12:15 am: | |
noah, I have found oil very helpful for weight gain along with soaked senior/complete pellets and alfalfa/hay cubes for horses that are underweight and/or can't handle hay.
You may not find the quids if other horses are pastured with him. They will eat the quids . . . "fast food," I call it. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22470
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 4, 2009 - 7:41 am: | |
noah you have not quoted the rule correctly. It states When adequate levels of forage are not enough to maintain good condition, concentrates and supplements are added and adjusted to maintain good body condition. You have stopped increasing the concentrate in spite of poor body condition.
For more on ways to safely increase the caloric density of your horse's diet and adapt a diet to poor dentition see » Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Weight Loss in Horses » Overview of Chronic Weight Loss.
DrO |
noah
Member
Username: noah
Post Number: 14
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 4, 2009 - 8:08 am: | |
BINGO, Dr. O! That's where I should have been reading!
I did not know to look under "Diseases", though I assume a keyword in the search field would have led me there eventually.
I will continue to read and digest it carefully! If I have any questions, I'll be back!
Thank you so much! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 22473
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 4, 2009 - 9:18 am: | |
There is a link to this article also in the Nutrition Topic noah.
DrO |
noah
Member
Username: noah
Post Number: 15
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, Mar 4, 2009 - 9:50 am: | |
I never saw it.....but patience is a virtue, one which I clearly lack. I'm the kind that doesn't read instruction manuals either. I just jump in and start turning knobs and pushing buttons! I should have "dug deeper" and taken some time to read.
Anyway, I don't think I'll bother the feed rep again for the time being. I'll increase his feed amount (I still haven't read the whole article) and go from there.
Thanks again. |
