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Sue
Member
Username: sbawer1
Post Number: 34
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 11:07 am: |   |
Hi. My gelding (6 yrs) has just started to severely twist his head/neck to the left and strongly pull against the bit when being asked to canter right. At the trot he is soft and round. It seems to me that this is a pain reaction? Going to the right is worse than left. He has also started to grab & chew on the lead rope when I have him in a halter. He pulls the lead rope (and seems to be doing the same thing with the bit) into the back of his mouth (straight across both sides of back teeth) to gnaw on it. (I put him in a hackamore to ride and he did not do any of this behaviour). His vet looked at him last week and said his teeth look fine. There was/is a small red dot on the inside of his cheek. (I gave him 4 days off for this). I am looking for some recommendations on what to do for him. This is new behavior - he is usually very willing and soft to ride? Should I have someone else look at his teeth? I did try 2 different bridles with different bit? The reaction was the same. The only other thing is that he had a upper respir infection last month.
Thanks! |
Ann
Member
Username: dres
Post Number: 2340
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, May 23, 2009 - 11:57 am: | |
Yes, by all means have a vet out to check his teeth! Two other things come to mind for me as well.. ulcers and or saddle fit.. So when you have the vet out, ask him about those possibilities as well..
I say this as a gal friend had the same thing going on on with her gelding.. it ended up being ulcers and her saddle..Ulcer meds. and a saddle fitter fixed her problem.. all tho ,, that being said this went on for a year before she solved the problem.. so now there are some training issues as well going right..
Good luck..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.. |
Kate
New Member
Username: tbhack
Post Number: 4
Registered: 5-2009
| | Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 6:55 am: | |
Hi Sue,
Any pain moving the bit in his mouth at stand-still? And did your vet put a gag on him, open his mouth property and have a good feel and look at teeth and with a torch to see everything? Here in Australia many vets are not good with teeth, equine dentists are the specialists and give better diagnosis... can you find equine dentist to look? Teeth cause many problems, always good to check. Does he chew OK? Drop food? Look happy when eating? Flick his head at all?
Also I'd consider, could he be trying to avoid pain in other parts of his body... so do you sense the pain reaction could be from his back, hind legs or pelvis at all? Given canter requires a rounder back and hind legs further under than trot... he could be avoiding pain from elsewhere (if not teeth).
Yes, I would be asking equine vet to check a back sensitivity and movement + equine dentist the teeth. Maybe wise to stick with teeth, get that diagnosis sorted, then move onto other pain areas.
Hope that helps in some way. Horses!
Kate |
Sue
Member
Username: sbawer1
Post Number: 35
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 10:56 am: | |
Kate - Great questions, thanks for them. I think you might be right on regarding pain from somewhere else. Yesterday I had our trainer look at him. She thinks two things: wolf teeth might be bothering him AND after she got on him said he is weak in his right hind and is using the head twisting/pulling behavior to get out of working from behind. So... I am going to have the dentist come out and I am going to do work with him to strengthen his back end. Due to the Upper Respir Infec, then a hoof abcess he has been off for almost 6 weeks... so maybe this is due to loss of strength more than teeth problems. When I first bought him he was pretty weak in the right hind and it took a couple of months of work to get him where he could carry himself. So this may be the same just presenting a little different. Yes.. Horses! |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 2593
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 2:18 pm: | |
Sue,
Teeth are tricky. So many vets do teeth, but not all do them well. And there can still be sores in the mouth after floating. And he just may "think" he's going have pain after it is gone.
My oldest horse, an Arab, will do weird avoidance things if her teeth get sharp edges. She will also bring her nose up really high and get ornery, if the saddle is hurting her. I have to constantly be aware of the saddle fitting correctly, hard to do being I have to shim it in the middle to keep it off her withers just so.
And then I have a gelding who sometimes just don't act very peppy, and he also sometimes has weakness issues in the right hind, which I can tell because he'll stand with it under him at rest.
If only they could talk, huh? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23034
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, May 24, 2009 - 8:04 pm: | |
Hello Sue,
The thing about tooth pain is that it just does not happen when asked to canter to the right. It happens particularly when chewing. If his chewing is normal and their are no easily observed tooth abnormalities on a good exam. I would discount this possibility though I cannot rule it out and the bit engaging the wolf teeth might be one of those, so take them out just to be sure. While sedated for removal a very good exam should be possible.
If that does not clear it up come back with some more details. However remember it if the 4 to 6 year olds where difficulties from earlier training problems or short cuts often show up.
DrO |
Sue
Member
Username: sbawer1
Post Number: 36
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 6:45 pm: | |
Hi DrO. It is ocurring left too, just not as extreme. What does it mean that this horse has a huge amount of excess salvation going on? This is new. He never used to foam at the mouth while being worked. Does this tie back to a dental issue? He had a upper respir infec a month ago and had cough, nasal discharge, swollen lymph nodes. Could this be related at all? (His vet said he saw nothing wrong with his teeth except that small (pencil eraser red sore) sore on his cheek which I gave 4 days off for. I'm having the vet re-look at him tomorrow as he was acting off (mouth & gait & behavior overall) today. Thanks. |
Sue
Member
Username: sbawer1
Post Number: 37
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 25, 2009 - 8:01 pm: | |
The horse is foaming (an outrageous amount) at the mouth while I am riding him. He is typically dry mouthed. This is foam pouring out of his mouth. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23041
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 7:28 am: | |
Let us know what the veterinarian finds today Sue.
DrO |
Sue
Member
Username: sbawer1
Post Number: 39
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 26, 2009 - 3:48 pm: | |
The vet looked at him. He said he does feel that his canines are trying to break thru and this is the cause of his pain. If need be he is going to cut the gum to help the process (?). |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23050
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 9:56 am: | |
Hello Sue, we often see uninterrupted canines or poorly erupted ones, what about these did your veterinarian feel indicated problems?
DrO |
Sue
Member
Username: sbawer1
Post Number: 40
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 27, 2009 - 11:38 am: | |
He said he could feel the canines at the gum level and my horse was reactive to pressure. Also - the under saddle behavior - bolting, excessive mouth foaming, twisting head, etc....
Do you agree with cutting the gum to let the teeth thru? |
elk
Member
Username: ekaufman
Post Number: 987
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 8:14 am: | |
Hi Sue,
It can't hurt to rule out teeth, but twisting and resistance in the RL canter isn't unusual in a 6 year-old horse (not sure about the foaming). I don't know why, but 6 really seems to be the adolescent year in riding horses, and it can be very hard to know whether you're dealing with pain or training issues at that age.
Apart from the foaming, nothing you describe sounds like it has to be medical, though I can't see the horse. Ruling out medical issues does clear the field for evaluating his training, however. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23059
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, May 28, 2009 - 10:01 am: | |
Sue, I have not ever felt had a case where this was indicated. Most canines lie well in front of where the bit should rest and cutting the mucosa over these teeth is not going to increase there extent and rate of eruption. But if his exam suggests this is a problem and that removing the overlying mucosa indicated we will have to wait and see if this fixes your problems.
DrO |
