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Discussion on Requesting your input on new home/farm site planning.
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Mary Schultz
New Member
Username: marys
Post Number: 1
Registered: 2-2007
| | Posted on Saturday, Oct 10, 2009 - 6:03 pm: |   |
Well, after many, many years - it's finally happening. I'm in the real planning stages for building a house (2010) and bringing home my horse (and a buddy) in 2011. We are fortunate to have 30 acres of grass and hay fields so there is plenty of room. Its an exciting time - no doubt. And somewhat stressful ... I get one shot at determining sites for house, garage, shop, and run-in/work building for horses. I hope those of you experienced in at-home horses can share your insight on site planning.
Thanks!
Plan Overview:
-horses, 2 min, 4 max; pleasure horses, sane, easy keepers
-two run-in sheds (30x20 each)arranged in "L" to form sheltered paddock open to east and south (prevailing winter winds from west, north west)
- paddock footing will have topsoil removed, geotextile, then appropriate stone
- structure (20x20?) for working with animals/storage very near run-in sheds; not intended to be a barn with stalls
- gates from paddock to several fields for 24/7 access to a field
- paddock will have water for horses (pastures will not, they'll need to walk back to paddock)
Comments on that set up in general?
Distance:
In order to achieve the setup described above, the run-in shed, paddock and storage/work building would be about 250' or 300' down the driveway from the house (driveway is total about 800').
Comments on that distance?
View:
In the situation above, in order to account for buildings, southern exposure (for horses and house/shop) I won't have a clear view of the
run-in shed area from the house.
Comments on ability to view horses (in their shed) from the house? |
Cheryl K
Member
Username: cheryl
Post Number: 468
Registered: 2-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Oct 11, 2009 - 9:25 am: | |
Mary - you don't say how the land lays - If you have slopes - for some reason - totally beyond my comprehension - all the places we've bought with barns have the barns built on low lying ground - read that flooded all winter - I really like to look out the window and see whats up with the horses when I hear a commotion going on - Actually - I just like to look out the window at them. You also didn't mention what kind of winter weather you have - When we lived in ND the barn was probably about 3-400 feet from the house - down a hill - walking that in a blizzard is not a fun thing to do. Are you going to have hay storage room in your storage building? Having hay close to the horses is a real concern. Also having lights is really handy for any emergencies that happen at night - they just about always happen at night -
Congratulation and have a great time planning and building
Cheryl K |
Mary Schultz
New Member
Username: marys
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2007
| | Posted on Sunday, Oct 11, 2009 - 10:20 am: | |
Cheryl, thanks for you input – greatly appreciated.
The lay of the land is a bit hard to describe in words. The site I have picked for the horse run-in sheds is high and has access to fields stretching west and east that are on the same level. To the south, the land drops down into a bowl shape of about 5 to 7 acres.
I know everyone says to put the horses as close as possible to the house … but other buildings (like hubby’s shop and garage) and terrain would mean that if I move the sheds closer, then there won’t be such good options to have the paddock area open to pastures. I want to try to avoid having to have the horses be led to pasture in case I need to be away and the DH helps out with their care. So, it seems to be more efficient turnout vs having them closer to the house.
I live in south-central PA, so we get cold winters, some snow – and this property will have more than its fair share of cold westerly wind since it is all fields. But probably nothing like your ND winters! But I agree – not fun to be walking long distances in that weather.
I agree, electric for good lighting at the sheds is a must.
I’m interested in rotational grazing and forage topics in general. I’ve always been interested in science. What a dream come true to be the steward of this land and have the opportunity to try out some of the things I’ve read about. I’m wondering how much I can stretch the grazing into the winter by stockpiling (in the field, not harvested). I know that grass loses nutritional quality after freezing temps – so I’m not sure how much supplemental hey or grain would be needed. Also, I’m not clear on how to estimate hey storage needs for a couple of horses. I hope I can find some more info on this. But I do agree that it should be very close to the run-in sheds to make the winter chores, well, less chore-some.
Thanks again for the input – any other comments from you or others are very much appreciated.
Mary |
DianE
Member
Username: scooter
Post Number: 5055
Registered: 9-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Oct 11, 2009 - 11:26 am: | |
Hi Mary congratulations on your new place and adventure .
Sounds like you have thought this through very well, there always will be something you wish you would have done
One thing that has been very important for me is having a large paddock area attached to their lean to that I can lock the horses in whether it be for sickness, ice, bad footing, injuries or they are just too fat...a problem with 35 acres of grass (for mine)
Be sure to have a hydrant handy too...stringing hose is a pain in the butt too!
I agree about putting everything as close as possible to the house. Mine our about 100 ft out our backdoor and I can watch them from our deck. It's just nice to watch them graze and inter act...one of the great parts of having them at home.
Things I wish I would have done... Put an auto water IN the lean to. It's just far enough away that if I have one locked up OR it gets icy out it is inconvenient. Also it is out of the weather and has less chance of freezing up, which happens occasionaly.
YOu can NEVER have too much storage space You will be amazed at the things you start to accumulate. Wheel barrows, Hay, drags for the pasture ect ect.
20 x 20 will be tight. I get about 300 bales of hay for my horses(3) for the year...depending on how high you stack it, that will take up about half of your space OR better...leaving little room for your accumulated stuff! and you never know you may start collecting horses like most of us do when they are at home.
Don't forget about a spot for manure and or dirty bedding.(then of course you will need a manure spreader to add to your accumulated stuff, OH and a loader tractor too!! My horses spend a good time outside, but they will come in the lean to...especially in the winter...to poop and pee. In the spring we end up with about 4 manure spreaders full.
We have heifers in the barn/pasture about 400 ft. away, hubby has been working long hours so now I am in charge of their feeding since he leaves in the dark and comes home in the dark... I hate that walk down there every day and night and am very glad the horses are right out the door instead of that far away. It won't bother you at first because they are at your house and you are happy no matter where they are...but it can become a annoying. Especially if you have a sick or injured horse that needs attention a couple times a day. I'm really not lazy just like convenience I did my share of running when they were "boarded" and that is why I wanted them home, to avoid that. |
Julie Masner
Member
Username: juliem
Post Number: 664
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, Oct 11, 2009 - 12:02 pm: | |
Most definitely have water and power to the lean-to. I just spent a lot of money to do that after the fact. Even if you can keep hoses thawed to get water out there, you will need power to run a tank heater. Unless you don't have freezing temps? |
Michelle
Member
Username: mleeb
Post Number: 134
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, Oct 11, 2009 - 3:02 pm: | |
Well, we built our barn last year, and I love it, wouldn't change a thing. Here's my 2 cents worth:
1. Rain gutters. They are worth far more than their weight in gold. Just make sure you plan for where the water is going to go once it reaches the spout. You can have rain dripping from the gutter that manages to freeze into an icy, dangerous puddle on the ground.
2. No problem with the horses walking back to the paddock for water that I can see, but plan for shelter around your water bowl -- not for the horses, for the bowl itself. A strong wind across the top of the bowl on a cool or cold day will freeze it solid, even with a heater.
3. When my horses were hand fed twice a day all winter long, it took 100 small squares (grass or grass/alfalfa) PER HORSE to get them through the winter (Nov-May). The average round bale is the equivalent of 20 small squares. You will definitely want room to store this close to the horses, because there is nothing fun about lugging hay around on a cold windy day. Also plan on shelter for your feeder so that the hay doesn't blow away, and that the horses don't burn off most of their calories keeping warm in the wind while eating.
4. The distance from the house is fine, that's what ours is too. Ideally the barn and manure pile would be downwind from the house. Being able to see into the sheds from the house would be great, but it's not the end of the world if you can't. You'll adapt.
5. Don't forget to build a hitching rail!! Tying to the fence gets old (and unsafe)in a hurry.
6. DO make sure that a window or deck looks out on your horses if at all possible. It will save you a lot of steps, and will give you piece of mind. My bedroom window looks over the pasture, and every morning I open the blind and count horses before I do anything else. And, like Diane said, one of the best parts of horse ownership is sitting back, preferably in a lawn chair on a sunny day, and watching the horses. It IS very relaxing.
7. Wherever the budget allows room, build more storage!! Once you get your horses home, you'll accumulate more stuff than you thought possible.
Michelle |
dieliz
Member
Username: dsibley
Post Number: 189
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Oct 11, 2009 - 10:51 pm: | |
My barn was finished two years ago. They literally built it around my horses! Ours was planned for a large operation, but some thoughts for any size facility:
When you have the elevation done for your main barn and/or your hay storage shed, raise it up another foot. Those hundred-year rains are coming more and more frequently. Our barn had to be raised 4.5 feet on one end. I went to inspect when they were 'done' and gave the order to raise it up another foot. I thought the contractor would walk off the job! But now he admits that WE did the right thing!!
If at all possible, buy an ATV, or a golf cart, or something to run from the house to the barns. Our house is about 50 yards from the corner of the barn, but the house sits up a hill. I know the exercise is good for me, but when I get down to the barn and remember that I forgot my cell phone or something else, it is really handy to have transportation to haul my tired bones back and forth.
I think I'm glad that I don't have a real clear view of the lean-to from the house. The ones I can see are in shadow when they're under the roof, and then I worry that maybe they're not really there...maybe they're laying down and can't get up...maybe they jumped the fence and ran away...grrr. Out of sight, out of mind? After my last check at nite, I have learned to stop worrying. OK, I have learned to stop running down to the barn every time I can't see one of them. Again, the ATV did come in handy.
Plan a feed room with a door that locks or latches. Horses can...and will...get loose at some point. Keeping feed locked away will eliminate at least one disaster if it happens.
Plan room for your riding arenas. Even if you don't plan on one presently, you will probably wish you had. An outdoor arena or roundpen will probably be first, with a small indoor to follow. Plan the indoor with the width you want. You can always add length in the future.
Manure 'storage' is crucial. It is amazing how fast a pile gets out of control. We put in a concrete pad something like a truck dock with sloped sides that fits into a hillside. I can dump the wheelbarrow over the side. It works great and also keeps it a bit too 'hot' for flies to breed excessively. Also easier to get the loader in to remove it.
And congratulations! I will never tire of caring for my own animals myself. There is no greater satisfaction. I am truly blessed to have this opportunity. Good luck to you! |
Vicki
Member
Username: kpaint
Post Number: 274
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 12, 2009 - 8:13 am: | |
If at all possible place the manure pile downwind from the barn/house. Our prevailing winds are from the sw, and I rarely have manure odor blowing my way. I like the truck dock idea! |
Cheryl K
Member
Username: cheryl
Post Number: 469
Registered: 2-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 12, 2009 - 8:56 am: | |
Mary - your storage building is going to be way too small - I doubt seriously it will be long before you end up with a tractor. Don't know how you can manage that much land without one - not to mention snow removal in the winter - with the tractor comes a bucket - harrow - some type of mower - Are you going to raise your own hay? We have someone come in to cut and bale our hay and we do round bales- Right now there are 11 round bales in our barn - taking up 2/3's of the space - there is a tractor - a riding lawn mower - fertilizer spreader - assorted hand tools - fencing material and supplies - etc-
My suggestion is that you visit as many horse places in your area as possible - look and ask questions - You will find all sorts of things you do not want and a few things you really want to incorporate in your place.
I envy your being able to take a chunk of land and turn it into your dream place. Would dearly love to be able to do that - Have fun and enjoy every minute of it -
Cheryl K |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 23913
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 12, 2009 - 9:22 am: | |
I too agree: way too little storage. Don't know how much you will need but my experience is that no matter what you build in a few years it will be too small. Also how do you plan to feed the horses without monitoring who is pushing who out.
DrO |
Angie KJ
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 279
Registered: 6-2009
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 12, 2009 - 11:05 am: | |
We started with an old lean to, got up to 6 horses at one time, 3 were foals! Never had enough room, had to buy hay monthly. A royal PAIN.
Next hubby built a 12 x 20 storage shed, with some storage above. Just for garden tractor, bikes, snow blower, tiller. Should be big enough right?
Nope.
He built a 40 x 60 barn next, moniter style with hay storage on top. The top part is 60 x 12 x 12 I think. We thought it would hold 1000 bales...700 more like it. And we all HATE the mess of hay filtering down on everything below.
Got 4 stalls, about 12 x 13 each, 2 on west, 2 on east, 12' aisle, 12 x 12 insulated & heated tack and feed room. Tack room could be bigger, good think I don't buy much "grain." Have running water, sink, counter & cabinets.
Wish I would have put the 4 stalls all on the west side, so each horse could have a seperate run if needed. They used to all get along in the 2 west stalls if left open, lately the herd dynamics have changed, and I have to lock the mares in order to offer protection from bad weather, and from each other.
And the "huge barn with all that extra room?" I am constantly complaining because I can't walk through the aisle! Son (who is moved out & in college now) has a truck project on the one side, other side is always full of building supplies. That area is my husbands dream wood shop...SOME DAY.
I don't have a tractor or any other big equipment, yet I still see we could use another building. Hubby might build his wood shop seperate yet.
I could just kick myself for not insisting on a hydrant outside the barn. I have to string hose over the aisle, through a stall to fill the tank. At least there is water in the barn, and electricity, including an outlet right by the fencer and tank.
The best advice I would give anyone planning on building new for horses is PLAN for the future. Consider every little thing that might come about in the future.
Mares? Foals?
What about a "sick bay?" I have a round pen right off the north end of the barn, that becomes my area for a horse needing to be kept seperate. I hate using it for that, manure builds up, can't see a horse back there from the house, need to put water there, etc. Horse has very little shelter there either, so lots of babysitting, led in & out of the stall.
A place to keep meds & worming supplies, vet supplies, that don't freeze or get too hot is a must I feel.
It's easier to plan for everything now, and have it ready, than be scrambling in an emergency. |
Mary Schultz
Member
Username: marys
Post Number: 3
Registered: 5-1999
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 12, 2009 - 11:09 am: | |
Wow! Everyone, thanks so much for the great input!
It seems in summary so far, I’m hearing (and agreeing) with all of you on the following:
- shed & paddock base well above surrounding grade
- rain gutters on shed and buildings
- large paddock with gates to fields
- water and electric IN sheds, hydrant not hoses (and in 20x20 building)
- good lighting in shed (and of course in building)
- hay storage as close as possible to point of use (shed)
- locked horse-proof feed storage
- manure pit, downwind of house
- storage, Storage, STORAGE!
- plan now for possible future riding area
It’s hard to put everything in an initial post so I would like to add a few points to clarify and in case it sparks more thoughts from you all.
Tractor & Implement Storage & Work Space:
I was thinking that on the side of my husband’s "farm-realted business building" (can ‘ya tell, I’ve been reading the zoning regs) we’ll have a lean-to style shed the length of the building. It would be 40 or 50 ft x 12 ft, unheated on gravel pad. If needed, we could add another lean-to on the other side of the building to get another 30x12. I was thinking the lean-to would store the tractor & implements, his flatbed trailer, and his home-made forklift (aka “Lurch”). I agree with your comments that we’ll need a tractor and implements to work on and maintain the farm. My husband has a very old Farmall H that he can use – but I don’t feel safe on it. At 5’ tall I can not reach the controls very easily and getting it to start is somewhat akin to launching a missle, and it doesn’t even have a 3-pt hitch. So I’ve been pricing used (but built after 1990) tractors and hope to buy one once we get some storage at the property.
So back to the site plan issue: I was thinking the ~20x20 building at the run-in sheds would be a sort of flex space for working with horses. A well-lit, sheltered place for grooming, vet, dentist, trimming, tack storage, simple sink/counter, possibly some hay storage, walk-behind snow blower in the winter … not sure what else. Actually I was thinking smaller then 20x20, but given your strong comments on storage, Storage, STORAGE – maybe the full 20x20 (or, yikes, even bigger) would be better.
Hay Storage:
I’m not sure what will be the final arrangement on bulk hay storage. I appreciate you guys giving feedback on how much hay you go through and your storage facilities – great info!
Distance and View:
Well, seems here there is not so much a clear consensus. Perhaps because people adapt to what they have. Or maybe the availability of an ATV or golf-cart makes longer distances no problem. And there are no doubt a myriad of other factors.
I bought one of those wheels on a pole that measures distance as you walk. I’ve been walking (measuring) distances between buildings for some time trying to get a better feel for it. I think this is particularly helpful on a pr}operty you know well. For example, at the barn where I board I measured 270 ft from the barn to the indoor. And at night, in February heading straight into the unbroken western wind before reaching the door of the indoor – it’s a bone chilling walk. I’ve been doing that for about 14 yrs. (Yeah – some kind of record, 14 yrs at the same boarding barn.) This boarding barn is a study in how NOT to layout a farm. For my farm – I’m not sure yet. Bummer to say it – but there it is – just not sure yet. Your input has been great, and really made me very cautions about the original plan of 300 feet from the house to the run-in sheds. Maybe 100 to 125 is more reasonable. So you’ve all given some great feedback on this issue and saved me from making a big mistake! Thanks so very, very much! |
Shannon
Member
Username: stek
Post Number: 321
Registered: 10-2008
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 12, 2009 - 12:15 pm: | |
Mary, just one more thing on distance from the barn to the house.. if you will always be keeping this property for your personal use only, then by all means the closer the horses are to the house the better. (In the 'old days' in the northeast the barn and the house were usually connected via the kitchen on a lot of farms!)
But if you think you ever might have boarders, keep in mind that some distance adds to your privacy. Our house is about 300' from the barn site and that is just the right distance away for the privacy of us and our boarders. Though on the rare days when we get snow I am cursing the hill I have to climb to get back up to the house!!
Also with regard to the arena site, keep in mind that in dry years arenas can get quite dusty. At our old house the arena was about 50' from the house.. great for convenience, but to use it in the summer I had to close all the windows to keep the dust from blowing inside.
One last thing: I am a big fan of no-climb perimeter fencing and then t-posts and hot tape to divide things up till you know exactly where your final fencelines will go. On our current property I've moved some of the fences at least 10 times in 3 years! MUCH easier to relocate a t-post fence than wood posts!
Enjoy your new dream property!!! |
Cheryl K
Member
Username: cheryl
Post Number: 470
Registered: 2-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009 - 8:10 am: | |
The neatest set-up for two horses that I've ever seen was really simple but had everything needed right there - it was a pole building providing two stalls - that area could easily have been run-in - on one side - the there was an aisle next to the stalls on the inside large enough to unload a hay trailer - hay storage was next to the aisle and it was built up off the ground trailer level - next to the hay storage was an insulated locking tack shop. There were lights over the stalls and around the aisle so it could be used for emergency work on horses - also provided a place for the farrier to work out of the constant rain - there were stall doors opening into the aisle - It was not an expensive building - he built it himself - the aisle was packed gravel and I'm sure the stalls were too - they had rubber mats with shavings and I never thought to ask - I seriously doubt it cost over $5,000 - it was basically a roof with one side closed in and two open stalls on the other side. Everything they needed for the horses was right there. Just something to think about - it would eliminate a lot of your storage problems.
Cheryl K |
Vicki
Member
Username: kpaint
Post Number: 280
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009 - 9:59 am: | |
Anyway you can start with 20x20 shed and add length as needed? Planning of course for the space eventually needed to extend the length... We have added length to sheds, raised the roof on the shop, and have added height to existing grain bins to maximize what is here before building completely new!
Wish we had a sketch of your layout and topography. Fun to plan a new place! We're always building on and around what we have... |
Vicki
Member
Username: kpaint
Post Number: 281
Registered: 3-2009
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009 - 10:03 am: | |
And of course someone mentioned gravel floor already which would save $. If you want concrete, you can always add it later and ditto with tin on the sides. Can always be added later as $ permits.
Definitely vote for running conduit for electric and water where ever the horses are. |
dieliz
Member
Username: dsibley
Post Number: 191
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 13, 2009 - 5:04 pm: | |
Besides guttering, you have to plan for water run-off. It's amazing how much water can run off the roof of the building! Our barn & arena measures 200 x 128. We ran downspouts into big plastic pipes underground. Those dump into a 'french drain' to help with water control.
Someone mentioned a heated area for wormer, etc. Our feed room has a vent coming from the lounge/tack room so we have some heat/air conditioning to keep feed from spoiling so fast.
So many things to think about! But good to ask opinions. Make a scale model of your property out of graph paper, and then make little 'buildings' to place around. You can even make fence out of string and use thumbtacks for corner posts. Amazing how having it in front of you helps gain perspective. It's easier to move your little paper shed than the real thing!! |
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