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D.
Member
Username: Dyduroc
Post Number: 144
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2005 - 8:04 am: |   |
Saw this at a barn we visited recently and thought it was worth sharing.
Before installing cross ties, cut an 12"-14" length of baling twine, thread one end through the eye bolt and tie it in a loop. Install the cross tie on the bailing twine loop instead of the eye bolt.
The theory is that the bailing twine will break first and, hopefully, prevent an injury or broken equipment.
I'm interested in hearing if anyone has feedback on this method because I'm planning to use it.
dyd |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen
Post Number: 674
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2005 - 9:32 am: | |
This is done for all types of horse tying in the UK and Ireland whether or not cross ties. It is a standard safety thing that I'd say every stables I have ever visited employs...
What will they all do when square bales and baler twine become a thing of the past with the advent of round bales and their netting - not much use for creating safety ties!
Imogen |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13180
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2005 - 10:07 am: | |
This is a often discussed subject and for lots of opinions and stories you can go to Training Horses » Training Your Horse's Mind » Halter Training and Tying Horses or run a search on tying, crossties and/or breakaway.
Whether to incorporate this method depends on your philosophy and I do have a different one than this: I don't want the ties to break no matter what and specifically train my horses to not expect they will. If they fight they will lose as a result my horses do not fight the tie. When we go horse camping the last thing I want is a lose horse in a million acre national forest.
DrO |
Ann
Member
Username: Lilly
Post Number: 11
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2005 - 10:28 am: | |
I agree with DrO on this one. I had a young horse, 2 years old, and I used a safety cross tie with her that utilized velcro. As soon as she found out that the velcro would separate when she pulled hard - the tie was useless. With older horses that didn't have issues being tied up, the velcro cross ties worked well and let go when they really needed to. Also, if you ever see coiled cross ties, don't buy them. They are coiled like telephone cords with the theory that they won't hang low enough to hit the ground. The only problem is that the coils are not strong enough to stay at the correct length. The horse is allowed way too much freedom to move. My horse was always stretching them way out to get to the grass to eat. Eventually a feisty little thoroughbred broke the cross ties altogether. And she broke the actually coils - the "quick release" snaps didn't let go. |
Little King Ranch
Member
Username: Eoeo
Post Number: 173
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2005 - 10:58 am: | |
I agree, don't let them break free in the first place and they won't "try" the ties. Of course, a person needs a a quick release to get one out of real trouble, but make sure you can be out of the way to do it. A thrashing horse is not something a person wants to be close to when they need to be released. EO |
joj
Member
Username: Jojo15
Post Number: 563
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2005 - 11:38 am: | |
I am on the fence with this. I have seen both theories in action. and i have seen some REAL damage, too in both circumstances.
My mare, TB, just doesn't tie well. I don't know what i would do in a weekend trail riding expedition with her. Like Dr. O describes.
I have also seen her go up over and under herself. Choking till we got her loose. At the washrack. So, i have tied her the way you describe.
I have also seen others who tree train? where they tie the horse to the tree and leave them there for hours fighting the tree and finally giving up and learning they can't fight being cross-tied. And they never fight it again.
And also, i have been in a search party looking for an errant horse that escaped its ties, took off, and disappeared for 3 days...
I can't imagine only one way to do this? |
Debbie Green
Member
Username: Green007
Post Number: 80
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2005 - 11:49 am: | |
I only use string when I am tying a horse to a horse trailer in a horse show or foxhunting situation. I have seen panicked horses pull a horse trailer on top of themselves! At home, I tie them without string to a solid base and use quick release snaps when available. |
Ella
Member
Username: Miamoo
Post Number: 80
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2005 - 1:03 pm: | |
When I teach my young horses to tie it is with Dr. O's method. They learn that getting away is not possible. I do however tie with only one tie and place it up high. Ties over the head are less likely to cause back troubles from fighting and are less l ikely for the horse to get tangled in. Once my horses tie well I then cross tie. I believe that double crossties that do not give are very dangerous as the horse can flip over and get hung up upside down. What I do for cross ties is use one that is a s ingle solid tie that will not give and the other is a turtle snap tie. This will give with very little pressure. This way if the horse pulls back one side lets go but the other side holds fast. The let go from the turtle snap side is often enough release to stop the pulling but if it does not they can not escape and are simply back to the one tie that they learned on.
Ella  © |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 876
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2005 - 2:29 pm: | |
Here's a little home experiment:
Tie a strong rope nice and taught between the two rings of the crossties. Then pull in the middle with all your strength.
Even if the bolts are strong enough to hold, you'll understand what's going on by the squeaking of the rope and the difficulty to untie it later. You can not imagine what a horse can do in a rig like this.
This is exactly why crossties must always be tied to breakable loops. Otherwise, it is too easy for the horse to pull the bolts out of the wall or even bring the wall down.
For tying to a single post or ring I agree with the above, unbreakable is the best choice. Though I've seen some nasty tying accidents, I have seen much more and much worse from horses running around in panic. Especially when the horse panics enough to hurt itself, I want it to stay tied, even if that costs the horse itself. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 665
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2005 - 2:39 pm: | |
I believe we've had a similar discussion another time. We all want safe horses that know how to stand tied, either on a hitching rail, side of a barn, in a stall, against a horse trailer, on a post, tree, picket line, and in crossties. I truly believe that when a horse panics, it is important for him to feel like he is not caught . . . but it is also important for him to NOT pull away free and thus train himself how to pull against something solid until he gets free. That's why I endorse the Blocker Tie Ring for tying, even or ESPECIALLY in crossties or on a horse trailer. With a smooth woven, LONG, nylon lead, a horse may pull, but will not feel caught, and will teach himself that it is okay to be tied. I know that there are those who believe in tying with innertubes, or to a solid post in the middle of an arena or ring, but if we can imagine an accident happening with either of those scenarios, (and I have heard horror stories with both examples) it either HAS happened before or WILL happen. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 730
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 20, 2005 - 4:56 pm: | |
I use cross ties with panic snaps both at the posts and at the halter, and attach them to the halter so they open towards the outside, not the cheek.
I, too, don't want a horse to think it can get free as I do a lot of camping and don't relish the thought of loosing a horse. (I've helped search for other's lost horses, and know of one that was never found.) But, I want to be able to release a horse in an emergency. I use the same type of ties in the trailer. |
Lee
Member
Username: Paul303
Post Number: 503
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 2:48 am: | |
I agree with solid ties, and halters that will not break. The baling twine just rewards a horse when he fights a tie, and each ensuing "break" reinforces the pulling behavior. You may create a horse that you can never trust to stand tied. |
D.
Member
Username: Dyduroc
Post Number: 146
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 7:17 am: | |
Thank you, everyone. Your input has given me a lot to think about.
The situation is that my cross ties are getting broken when I'm not at the barn and I have to buy new ones 2-3 times a year (my horse is well behaved when on cross ties). I spoke with the barn owner about this situation and she's never witnessed an incident herself. 'Thinking' you know who's responsible vs. 'knowing' are two different things.
I'm just trying to find a way to keep my equipment from getting broken without creating an incident or a safety issue.
Your advice or comments would be appreciated.
D. |
Erika LIPTON
Member
Username: Erika
Post Number: 54
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 7:46 am: | |
My crossties have snaps at both ends. If yours do, you can simply remove the crossties when you are finished grooming your horse and put them away. Let 'em bring their own!
Good luck!
Erika |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13189
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 8:49 am: | |
Another thought is on the use of break-aways, when real pressure is applied many are very hard to open and the same is true of quick release knots, keep a good pocket knife in your pocket for those times the horse goes down or becomes entangled. Best is a sharp blade and a blunt point.
DrO |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 732
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 21, 2005 - 10:17 am: | |
I was going to say the same thing as Erika, if they're your ties, take them down when you are done with them. |
Angela Spucces
Member
Username: Rubysmom
Post Number: 117
Registered: 3-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 22, 2005 - 11:03 am: | |
I have had incidents where the "bungie" cross ties (and trailer ties) save lives.
They give, but as soon as the horse lets up, even just a teensy bit, the pressure releases and they calm down.
One caveat, though.
If you use the "bungee" type trailer ties, always, always, always put the quick release snap ON the halter, NOT the ring to the trailer.
I once (stupid me) forgot to undo my mares head when trailering her and put the butt bar down.
She obediently backed out, and when she realized her head was still tied to the trailer, panicked and pulled back.
The quick release (Thank God) gave, but it shot into the trailer and made a nasty divot in the metal. Like a bullet.
I can only imagine if that had hit my mare. (shudder).
I believe that the bungee saved her from serious injury, though, as once the pressure gave she flew out of the trailer, but kept her balance and did not fall or otherwise hurt herself.
Me, on the other hand, will NEVER, EVER do that again.
Lesson learned, thankfully the horse was not hurt from my stupidity.
I swear by the bungee ties though, and will not tie to (or in) the trailer w/o them. |
Ann
Member
Username: Lilly
Post Number: 12
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 22, 2005 - 11:48 am: | |
I personally think that bungee cords as ties are just as useless as all the other ties that "give". I had a friend who swore they were useless with her horse but I just wouldn't believe her. I purchased a nice thick bungee trailer tie and took it, and my friend's horse to the wash rack. I tied up the horse, turned on the water, started spraying the horse and he jerked his head up and broke the tie. It broke right at the point where it was attached to the quick release snap. One jerk of the head is all that it took! The horse just stood there and looked at me as if he was saying, "Ok. My job is done, let's continue with that bath." |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 669
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 22, 2005 - 12:20 pm: | |
I have used the quick release snaps on cross-ties, and don't trust them. I had one mare who was able to give a quick jerk on them whenever she didn't want to stand tied, and she was able to release them every time . . . and subsequently taught herself to pull to get free. |
D.
Member
Username: Dyduroc
Post Number: 147
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 9:34 am: | |
Thanks again, everyone. Good discussion.
Erika and Sara, been there, done that. Put them away in my grooming kit only to find them hanging in the aisle when returning to the barn.
I've decided to leave the broken/jury-rigged ties where they are and buy another pair for MY use and that will go home with me in my barn tote.
DrO, excellent suggestion about the pocket knife. I keep one in my backpack but that's usually locked up in the car so I'm moving it to the front pocket of my tote.
D. |
Christine Sizemore
Member
Username: Gingin
Post Number: 54
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 26, 2005 - 11:08 am: | |
This is a very interesting discussion! Thanks for all the advice since I, too, have been struggling with figuring out what the best way to tie would be...I have to admit that I am starting to side with those who say that the "ties should not break, neither should halters", since I have seen horses panic in cross ties or even on a single rope and pull back with all their might just for something to snap or break when they have all their weight pushed back into the ties....with the result that one horse completely lost its balance and flipped over backwards, another tried to catch its weight on the hind and landed on its belly with both hinds spread apart. Both got hurt pretty badly!
Actually, what I have experienced to me even more important than how to tie is what surface the horse is standing on when tied. We have a concrete aisle in our barn with rubber mats covering most of the distance of the barn. There are some @^#%$@^$ (excuse my french) individuals who tie their horses in the are where there are NO rubber mats. The moment a horse pulls back on a tie and looses traction, they WILL panic, then you end up with slipping sliding hind hooves, more pulling and flying slipping horses hung by the head in unbreakable ties..and you try to undo a panic snap under these circumstances...NOT a pretty picture!!!
So, I only cross ties horses that I KNOW have been taught to cross tie, but always on firm footing with traction and when in doubt, use one tie or no-tie...for teaching then to stand still, I do not usually rely on tying for training but expect them to do so without being fastened to the wall or a tree...its more work with youngsters but once they know that they are expected to stand, then come the tying exercises....
Christine |
Angela S.
New Member
Username: Drillrdr
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 11, 2005 - 2:56 pm: | |
Is it true that when tying with cross-ties, the height should be at halter height to prevent a horse from rearing and falling over backwards? Would they still be able to manage to get themselves upside down? I haven't experienced this and needless to say would like to avoid it in the future. Thanks on the bungee info. I have my quick releases attached to the trailer, not the halters. I don't even take the butt bar down or release the slides until everyone is completely undone from the trailer but I will switch them around today! Thanks for all the valuable info! |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 769
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 11, 2005 - 7:42 pm: | |
I don't know if it's the "right way" or not, but the rings for my ties are at about horse's ear level, then the tie lines have a little sag to them so the horse can move a little bit. |
cindy mette
Member
Username: Cindylou
Post Number: 57
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 15, 2005 - 3:48 pm: | |
The best thing to do I have found is to apply the pony club policy- tie all cross ties,trailer ties and buckets with twine. It makes all tying safe for all. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13356
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 15, 2005 - 6:35 pm: | |
Cindy I am aware of a horse that was hit by a car and killed after breaking its tie. I am also aware of 3 on rearing and breaking their tie went over and cracked their skulls resulting in blindness and seizures. 2 died. Of course that is over the past 20 years but cannot think of a single horse that killed itself or even seriously hurt itself trying to escape unbreakable ties though I have seen a few hanging from the wall in the attempt. I am sure there have been horses that have, I just have not seen it.
DrO |
