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Lori
Member
Username: Maggienm
Post Number: 75
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 10:29 am: |   |
I wasn't sure where to post this.
The scenario; my horses live at a stable, they don't get fed until I get there,
sometimes my time is limited,
usually what I do is let them eat while I clean pens and tack up then I ride
Questions: If I am planning a hard ride (coach with lesson)would my horse be better off not eating, eating for less than say 20 min (hay) or eating her regular meal?
thanks |
Ann
Member
Username: Lilly
Post Number: 15
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 12:45 pm: | |
Lori,
Thank you for posting this question!!! I have always wondered how long one should wait after dinner or breakfast before starting to ride. I look forward to finding out the answer. I had a close friend who would feed her horse just hay at the evening meal, go for a ride, and then feed the grain. |
Fran C
Member
Username: Canter
Post Number: 247
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 1:00 pm: | |
I too have wondered about this as my horse is stabled and my ride times are not very flexible. However, having said that, I have had many lessons and rides where my mare has either just finished eating or was in the middle of eating. If she is still eating, I pull her out before she has finished (can't say exactly why I do this...just became a habit). I've never had a problem with her or any other horse that I've ridden when they have a full belly.
However, when I'm done riding, and the horse still has grain or hay left, I've always been extra careful about cooling the horse out before putting them back in the stall...usually I will putz around for an hour with the horse on the end of a lead line or in cross ties before giving access to the food again.
Nothing scientific here...just my experience...but I've never had a horse colic on me.
I'm looking forward to what everyone else has to say...
Fran |
Ann
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 544
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 1:12 pm: | |
My understanding is that its good for the gut to have something in it before riding.. this way the acid doesn't slosh around causing a burning sensation in the stomach, specially with horses that show 'signs' of ulcers....I have a mare that is pretty spooky, I went to a clinic and the clinician suggested that I put food in her belly before I ride, as the ''burning'' might be why the mare is unpredictable... not sure it made any difference with her... but the idea makes since..
my two cents worth...
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS.. |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 851
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 1:24 pm: | |
I agree ...some people even say it's good to have alfalfa in the belly before hard work. Not a full belly, but just enough to reduce acid. So I would think 20 minutes of eating would be just right |
joj
Member
Username: Jojo15
Post Number: 565
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 2:56 pm: | |
I was always told feed one hour prior to riding. Which is exactly the amount of time it would take to muck and saddle. This is for grain feeding.
I have always given hay right before i saddle when out trailriding. They get hay in the trailer ride, and a free choice bag while they are not being ridden. and even right before we saddle up when tied. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 878
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 3:25 pm: | |
Hi, all, I believe it all depends on the amount fed and the general feeding schedule.
If a horse is only fed twice a day, for instance, interrupting his meal is very unfriendly. But then again riding on a stomach that's been empty for several hours is not friendly either, nor is it any better to let a hungry horse finish his meal and then ask him to perform. He'll simply be too full.
Feeding three times a day or more, as one should, I believe the best is to ride 1-2 hours after a meal is finished, but riding straight away is not such a big deal.
In any case, I think waiting for 1-2 hours after a grain meal is finished is a good idea.
Of course, for pastured horses or the ones on free choice hay/no grain, you can ride any time you want. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 879
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 4:32 pm: | |
Mind you, also, that you should never estimate food intake by eating time.
Some horses can simply eat 3 times faster or 3 times slower than necessary. |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 856
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 4:49 pm: | |
Christos, is it true that if the horse has at least *something* in the belly, that it would help the acid build up before working? |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 881
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 - 4:01 am: | |
Yes, Aileen, I think it is true at all times, not just before working. The horse's stomach must always have a little bit of food in it.
On top of acid build up and the stress of hunger, a horse with an empty stomach will only think of food, he can't help it. Trying to explain some ballet movement at that time may be frustrating enough to give you an ulcer. |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 857
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 - 8:44 am: | |
Thanks Christos! I agree with you that a horse should always have something in their belly, unfortunately in California, that's not always a luxury Not a lot of pasture space for the boarded horses. I have recently found that out after looking into selling my place. I was looking for a place to board my horse and I have found that most boarding barns do have turnout (an hour or two), but it's most likely in an arena with no grazing. Sad but true. |
timothy miller
Member
Username: Tpmiller
Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 - 10:14 am: | |
We feed grain/beet pulp 2-4 hours before an endurance competition of 50-100 miles all the hay/grass they want, feed at every vet check which may number 2-6, 30 minutes to an hour each, depending on distance, encourage grazing on trail and feed handfuls of grain or hay packed out. It's all about drink, eat, pee, poop. Without fail, at vet checks, it's always the other persons hay they want, 70 horses all going to someone else's pile of hay. We don't care what they eat, just so they do. |
Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 54
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 - 1:34 pm: | |
Certainly in people the amount of acid in the stomach increases when food is present, as does the diameter of the gastric arteries, distracting a percentage of blood from the other organs. I'm sure we've all had that "after lunch droop" as a our brains get a little less blood! So. I'm interested to hear from an equine medical perspective whether or not this "something in the belly" philosophy holds water, or any fluid for that matter... Stacy |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 883
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 - 2:56 pm: | |
Yes, DrU, it does hold water. Literally.
Belly contents, especially hay or grass, are an important water reservoir during prolonged exercise, especially endurance.
Racehorses are fed huge amounts of grain, then exercised some three hours later in order to catch the optimum nutrient levels in the blood. Many trainers do not feed hay in between in order to shave a few pounds off (stupid) or to save some blood supply for the muscles (incorrect) or to have the horse hungry after work for yet another huge amount of grain (cruel). The result is that practically all racehorses suffer from ulcers.
I believe it would greatly help these magnificent beasts of speed if they were simply training on a stomach full of hay.
It would help in a chemical way, as food raises the stomach's ph and lack of it for more than a couple of hours lowers it dangerously, but also in a mechanical way, as some hay content in the stomach would "thicken" the fluids, preventing them a little bit from splashing all around during galloping (it is the upper part of the stomach that's sensitive). |
Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 55
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 - 4:20 pm: | |
Hi Christos,
Are there some handy studies on this - I have the curiousity and the new computer to enjoy them! If we assume the horse in his natural state to be the ideal, I can see how the theory of always having a LITTLE something in the gut would be correct. The ranging animal would almost never get to binge feed however. You'd think because the racehorses are in all day, in a controlled setting, they would feed them a little forage all day long. Is there some data showing the percentages of racehorses with ulcers? Personally, I don't ride after feeding a horse, but I have the advantage of 30 acres of grass, and when I am going to ride, I call my herd in. They've always got something hanging out of their mouths!! |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 742
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 - 5:26 pm: | |
I have read that A Fleet Alex, contrary to "track wisdom" gets fed before each race. Wonder if that's one reason he maintains his energy level? |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 884
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 25, 2005 - 5:35 pm: | |
Here are a couple of links, Stacy, you may find them helpful:
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/AAEP/2003/merritt/chapter_frm.asp?LA=1
http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep/2002/910102000024.pdf |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13225
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 26, 2005 - 9:25 am: | |
Hello Everyone,
Perhaps the one thing that comes through above is that there are many different effects of feeding prior to exercise and the answer to Lori's question of "what is best" depends on what particular aspect of food and exercise you look at. It also will depend on amounts, type of feed, pasture situation, preexisting medical conditions, and type of exercise. And as A. M. Merritt concludes in the 2003 presentation (from Christos' link above) these all need study to further define the particulars. Despite the lack of conclusion the information from this presentation, which I attended in 2003, points us in directions to take and is the basis of our article on gastric ulcers in horses, Equine Diseases » Colic and GI Diseases » Gastric Ulcers.
Stacy one of the big differences between humans and horses is that horses continuously secrete significant amounts of acid as opposed to the more episodic secretion in humans. As a result, horses ph tends to rise during meal times while humans tend to go down.
In general if I had to choose between an empty stomach or full stomach for a long ride, I would definitely choose full, but take it easy the first hour or two to allow the stomach to partially empty itself. For more on suggestions of feeding horses for performance and endurance see the article, Care for Horses » Nutrition » Performance Nutrition
DrO |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: Quatro
Post Number: 179
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 26, 2005 - 10:25 pm: | |
thanks for asking this question, I too have always wondered, if I needed to wait, now we kinda know
thanks
suz |
Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 57
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 27, 2005 - 8:18 am: | |
Christos, thanks for the link. I enjoyed reading at that depth and the historical perspective was especially interesting. I think I'll leave things as they are at my house - my horses come in from the field to ride and almost always have something hanging out of their mouths! |
