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Erika LIPTON
Member
Username: Erika
Post Number: 55
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 27, 2005 - 6:14 pm: |   |
I have a black--or used to be black!--mare that fades to nearly red each season. Keeping her inside all day is out of the question.
Does anyone know of anything, like henna perhaps, that Friesian owners might use to "blacken up" a horse for a show or even permanent? At the beginning of the season, this horse is black black, but the mane and tail from years before is still reddish.
Thanks for your suggestions. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 750
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jun 27, 2005 - 8:45 pm: | |
I don't know much about Fresians, although I have two that have been boarding here for the past 8 mos. I do know that if a horse isn't getting the proper feed, including minerals, it's coat will fade out and also usually look rough. The Fresians I have here are black as black can be and they are out 24/7. I also have a black Arabian stallion who is out a lot & he's very black even though he spends a lot of time outside. I'd go over what the horse is eating, and have a hay and feed analysis done for starters. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13247
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2005 - 6:05 am: | |
There do appear to be two types of black pigmented horses: those that fade and those that don't. I own one absolute black and two fading blacks. I think this a genetic issue and don't know of nutritional issues that might keep them black in the sun. For those that do fade, sun protection is the only dependable solution that I am aware of.
DrO |
Erika LIPTON
Member
Username: Erika
Post Number: 56
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2005 - 8:07 am: | |
Yes, I had heard about the "two types of blacks" also. Obviously, I have one of the faders. Her mother is a chestnut, father is the Friesian. By the end of the summer the mares both match!
The filly's coat is shiny as can be, as are all my horses--plenty of nice pasture, so roughness is not an issue, just the color fade.
I know there is a very expensive nutritional supplement called "Black as Knight". It is a proprietary formula so I can't run it past you as to what is in it. I am skeptical, but has anyone used it with any effect? |
Fran C
Member
Username: Canter
Post Number: 248
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2005 - 8:08 am: | |
Erika, I've seen advertised in the catalogs fly sheets that claim to offer sun protection as well, to keep the coat from fading. I have no first hand knowledge as to whether or not they work, but you may want to check it out.
At the barn where I board my horse, there's a "black" and white Paint. He's kept lightly covered (but not all the time), to keep his coat black, but I've noticed he's faded as well. And I know it's not a nutritional issue. These horses are very well cared for. |
Alicia Kost
Member
Username: Aannk
Post Number: 457
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2005 - 8:44 am: | |
Black as night has paprika in it, which is supposedly the ingredient that does the "blackening". I don't know how much paprika to feed, but I do know some folks just give it with good effect. Also, remember it is an illegal substance if you show. Another thing you can do is use hair dye for the old growth, lots of show folks do that. You have to buy quite a few kits, though! Just search on line and I am sure you will find more answers.
Alicia (Guinness is a black fader, he doesn't fade nearly as much as you describe, but he is in during the day in the summer) |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen
Post Number: 678
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2005 - 10:04 am: | |
The showing people just graze them at night and keep them in during the day...
All the best
Imogen |
Christine C. Mills in NC
Member
Username: Chrism
Post Number: 1085
Registered: 4-1999
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2005 - 12:49 pm: | |
I was told by the breeder of my black that the Friesian folks feed 1 teaspoon of paprika daily. She did not specify which type of paprika.
Cheers. |
Melissa A Mathurin
Member
Username: Melis
Post Number: 25
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2005 - 1:32 pm: | |
I have two black fading TWHs. I feed mine 1 tablespoon of McCormick Spanish paprika (I buy the bulk size at BJs) with their morning and evening meals. It doesn't keep them blue black but it does seem to keep them darker.
I saw one research article a few years ago that saw a correlation between low copper level and coat fading. Sometimes I'll find a few white tail or mane hairs that are way underneath (not in contact with the sun)...hmmmm. |
Erika LIPTON
Member
Username: Erika
Post Number: 57
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jun 28, 2005 - 9:30 pm: | |
Great stuff everyone, thanks. I may try the paprika...Cleo wears a fly sheet, but her mane and tail also fade. My horses are out 24/7 with shelter as they wish so I guess a certain amount is inevitable.
Hair dye is an interesting thought. I can picture myself covered in it after dying a two year old!
Thanks, everyone. |
Tonya Bauer
Member
Username: Pbauer
Post Number: 41
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 29, 2005 - 1:59 am: | |
Erica,
I use Black-As-Knight and a white Rambo fly sheet; works really well.
Best,
Tonya |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 66
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jun 29, 2005 - 4:35 pm: | |
I too have read that copper deficiency can influence coat color (and condition), but as Dr. O said, genetics is the main issue. The tendency to fade out is an inherited characteristic. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 13259
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 30, 2005 - 7:24 am: | |
Though the coat color is effected by copper deficiency in ruminants, this is not a reported feature in horses, for more see Care for Horses » Nutrition » Minerals and Nutrition.
Copper deficiency in horses is very rare in horses and not usually associated with too little copper but toxicosis with another mineral that interferes with copper metabolism. The article referenced above explains how to insure adequate mineral intake in your horses diet.
DrO |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 67
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 30, 2005 - 10:22 pm: | |
Very interesting -- I'll check that out. Thanks, Dr. O! I seem to recall one year that my pasture needed an application of copper after a soil check. |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 68
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Jun 30, 2005 - 10:32 pm: | |
Your articles on nutrition are great and will be using those references a great deal. As I am reading, it comes to mind that it may have been sulfur that we had to put on our pasture rather than copper-- and along with fertilizing, the coats and hooves seemed improved. Thanks again. |
Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler
Post Number: 289
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jul 1, 2005 - 11:57 am: | |
Sunscreen does help a little for fading blacks, or any color for that matter, just as women use hair products with sunscreen to keep hair color from fading, so can you on your horses.
Just a pain to slather your horse down with sunscreen all the time. I have put it in a spray bottle though for the horses with a lot of white that sunburn.
Putting dye on a horse isn't that bad it's getting it washed of and not ending up colored yourself that is hard. Wear gloves and crappy clothes. |
Carla McKenzie
Member
Username: Jivete
Post Number: 8
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 5, 2005 - 9:41 am: | |
Do you mix the sunscreen with water to use it in a spray bottle? I do use a leave-in conditioner with sunscreen in it for manes and tails but I'd rather use something cheaper for the body. Could you mix sunscreen with fly-spray (I use skin-so-soft) or would this dilute the sunscreen too much and/or gunk up the sprayer? |
Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler
Post Number: 293
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 5, 2005 - 12:37 pm: | |
I guess you could mix it with your fly spray I would just put a couple of ounces in it and make sure you shake it real good. It might gunk up your sprayer I always put mine in a industrial spray bottle, they don't gunk easily and they can handle being dropped on the ground when I am not paying attention. I mostly just put 45 spf sunscreen fill 1/3 of sprayer and then the rest is water. Shake well because sunscreen does have an oil base. |
