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Discussion on Vehicle and Trailer Search
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Susan Daws
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 23, 1999 - 10:55 pm: |   |
Anyone have advice on what types of vehicles are good for towing a two horse trailer? I'm in the process of looking at options and am trying to decide whether to go with a SUV type vehicle or a pickup truck. Any preference on goose neck vs. trailer hitch? I will only be pulling one horse and would probably be purchasing a trailer weighing approximately 2000-2300 lbs. Does anyone have any experiences (good, bad or otherwise) pulling a bumper hitch with something like a Ford Explorer? Thanks for any help. |
Lynn Bystrom
| | Posted on Sunday, Dec 26, 1999 - 5:40 pm: | |
Hi Susan:
We pull our two horse trailer (bumper hitch) with my husbands dodge 1/2 ton pickup without a problem. I guess that'd be equivilant to the ford f-150. One thing that I thought I'd mention...when we bought Jim's truck I was surprised to find that trucks no longer have towing packages as standard equipment....it's now an option!
I too, usually haul only one horse in my trailer, but have hauled 2 without a problem. I like my bumper hitch trailer now....initially it's a bugger to back up until you get the hang of it though. I hear goose-necks are easier to back, but having never done it, I don't know. Good luck in your search! I'm anxious to hear opinions of others on this matter as well!
Happy Holidays,
Lynn |
Susan Daws
| | Posted on Sunday, Dec 26, 1999 - 9:55 pm: | |
Thanks, Lynn, for your info. The Explorer SUV is built on the f150 frame and pulls as much weight. With the V8 and 4 wheel drive, I think that I'll be OK. Have been advised to definitely add the electric brakes and an adjusting tow bar.
Happy Holidays to You. Susan |
Brian Kruse
| | Posted on Sunday, Dec 26, 1999 - 10:44 pm: | |
You will probably get a million opinions about the best vehicle to tow a trailer. If you are going to buy a 2000# bumper pull, and add one horse at, say 1000#, then you will get close to exceeding the towing capacity of many of the mid size SUV's that have V6's or small V8's. Most of them have a towing limit of around 3500#'s. My wife has a blazer S-10, and I would feel uncomfortable pulling that much weight with it. I had a bumper pull trailer and moved on to a gooseneck, but mainly because I wanted sleeping quarters in the trailer. A goose neck means a truck, so if you decide that way you will be in the truck business. The full size trucks and full size SUV's have 7000# towing capacity for the 1/2 ton series and more for the 3/4 and one ton.
There are small two horse trialers that weigh only 1000#'s or less that the smaller SUV's could handle.I had such a trailer for several years and it was over 20 years old when I got it.I pulled it with a full size truck that only had a V-6 and put 180,000 miles on the truck. The trailer is now over 30 and still going strong. I held up a lot of traffic and put up with a lot of angry motorists. Just smile at them and say you are sorry. You and your cargo are more important than the few milliseconds they might lose. It is their day that is ruined, not yours. Besides, after they swoosh by and give you the bird, they will get their precious milliseconds back. Ignore the bird as well. The last thing you need is some jerk swerving back in front of you and slamming on the brakes.
If you go this route, make sure your trailer brakes are in tip top shape. I would stay far away from surge type systems and stick with electric trailer brakes. The electrics are easier to understand how they behave, and fix, if the need be. Have a good brake controller installed. Most of the better ones have two independent settings. One sets the ramp up rate and the other sets the max braking power. I like to set mine so that the trailer shares enough of the braking work such that I don't feel like I have to add much more braking from the tow vehicle. My experience has been that if the trailer brakes don't do enough sharing, then the tow vehicle brakes will overheat sooner. The trailer brakes tend to fade when they heat up, so the adjustment of max power may have to be changed a little during operation.
Make sure you buy the factory towing package regardless of the vehicle you buy. This will give you the extra cooling capacity your car will need when pulling the trailer. Even then, it is wise to add an external oil and transmission oil cooler. Your fuel mileage goes to almost half when you are towing. This extra fuel that is burned to keep you moving is turned into heat and all this heat is removed by the radiator. Watch your gages carefully when towing for signs of overheating. Also, maintenance such as oil and filter intervals should be shortened. Keep an eye on the transmission fluid and watch for signs of burned fluid. The fluid will break down and smell burned. Pull the dip stick and smell the fluid. Have the fluid drained and the transmission filter changed at or before the required interval.
Now for the driving part. The first thing to do is to plan your trip to avoid heavy traffic. Nothing is more aggravating and hard on the machinery than stop and go. Be sure all tires are at the specified pressure and in good shape. Be sure to double your time and distance estimates for merging and stopping. Develop the habit of reaching for the brake controller every time you stop. You don't have to touch anything, just develop a feel for where it is. That way, if you have a panic situation, you can crank up the braking power. Don't drive in overdrive when towing a trailer. The transmission repair bill will make you sad.
The trailer tracks wider than your tow vehicle, so on narrow roads, it is not unusual for the trailer to wander onto the shoulder. This is where a heavy tow vehicle is the better option. If this happens, the usual best thing to do is to keep the tow vehicle under power. Don't even coast until the problem clears up. The best way out is to just insist that the tow vehicle stay where it belongs and keep on chugging.
Best of luck in your search. |
Bruce Wichmann
| | Posted on Monday, Dec 27, 1999 - 9:52 am: | |
Excellent advise Brian, after putting close to a million miles under my belt driving commercially, some things I would like to add in the "driving" catagory.
Learn to drive by the "seat of your pants". Be aware of the "feeling" in your butt as you drive, you will "feel" handling problems way before you conscioulsy notice them. This is especially important driving in snow/ice or even in rain during the summer.
I prefer to have the trailer brakes set just a tiny bit harder in response time to the vehicle. That way if you do end up in a panic situation, the trailer will act as an anchor to help slow you down rather than being a force that is pushing you. Your braking distance will be greatly reduced that way. Better to replace the trailer brakes more often than to have a "jacknife" situation ruin your day and possibly injuring the horse or worse yet, yourself and others around you. |
Emily French
| | Posted on Monday, Dec 27, 1999 - 11:53 am: | |
After learning with a 2 horse gooseneck, I flat refused to pull a bumperpull when we looked at getting a new trailer. I personally think they are safer because you are pulling and stoping from between the truck axels instead of behind them. you also don't get that jerky motion going down the road (which drives me nuts). I pull a 3 horse goose neck with a 5/8 ton (called: heavy half tons) that has a 350, I have electric trailer brakes that I too set a bit heavy and service often. If we are loaded to capcity with 3 horses, weeks worth of camping supplies and water, etc. we are at max capacity for the truck and trailer and can still take the mountain passes at 50mph.
The main thing to remember is dont just get "enough truck to get by". Figure what the trialer can possibly hold, then add the weight of 2 people, gear, etc. and see if you are in the safe range of your tow vehicle.
When you look at the small respective cost of stepping up in truck size it ia a small price to pay for you and your horses safety.
Brian and Bruce... bravo... I personally think people should be required to get endorsements for towing trilers containing live loads. Too many people don't understand that you can put brakes on trucks, you can put brakes on trailers, but you can't put brakes on the horses inside. Much less do people understand what a "walk around inspection" is. |
Brian Kruse
| | Posted on Monday, Dec 27, 1999 - 7:32 pm: | |
After moving to a gooseneck, I have to say that they feel much more stable going down the road and the ride seems much less sensitive to weight shifting. However, there are often economics involved, and there was a time when the old wallet could not stand the expense of a gooseneck system. The gooseneck trailers are more expensive, and tend to be heavier. So for a two horse arrangement, a little more tow vehicle is needed. Just having a hitch installed is a $500 proposition. I put one in a new truck myself to save $400, and cutting that big gaping hole in the bed of a brand new truck for the ball assembly is a gut wrenching experience.
If you are just getting into the horse hauling game, and aren't sure what to get, then I think it would be a reasonable approach to buy a bottom end 2 horse bumper pull, even used. You can find good ones for $1500. You can always get that back for one if you find out that this isn't what you want to do in your spare time. Next, I would look for a good used pickup truck, and add it to the "stable of cars" rather than buy a new vehicle and have it serve two purposes. This way, the truck can be a spare if needed. Next, find a good mechanic to fix up the rig, dedicating it to horse hauling. This way, you can leave the trailer hitched to the truck, and going through the hitching drill is minimized. You should be able to find a decent used truck for $6000. Figure $500 to the mechanic and you are in the horse hauling business for $8000. That is a little over a year's worth of payments on a new SUV, so in about 16 months, you are even, and ahead after that.
After a year, if Aunt Bessie dies, you can upgrade with the inheritance money. And guess what, that little trailer is worth $1500 on trade and the truck is worth $6000!
One more tidbit. make sure you have a "safety net" list of friends that are willing to drive to East Overshoe Alabama and bring back your horses if your tow vehicle breaks down. Even new ones break down, and nothing is worse that sitting on a dark interstate trying to find a place to put up your horses. Make an arrangement with another horse person to to the same if they get in trouble. This is where owning a gooseneck is a little more challenging. There may be fewer folks with the setup. |
Emily French
| | Posted on Tuesday, Dec 28, 1999 - 11:44 am: | |
Brian-
I'll tell you, better late than never. I too cried when I put a big hernkin' plate in the bed of my truck the first time, BUT the seccond time I got smart... The dealer delivered out new trailer and had the slickest set up I have ever seen.
They are called "Turn Over Balls". All the bracing is mounted under the bed to the frame so it is more secure and safe then to the bed of the truck. You only have a 4x4 inch hole to cut in the bed for the ball assembly and 4 3/8inch holes to drill for the safety chain hooks. The coolest thing is that when in use you only have a ball sticking up in your bed the same size a bumper hitch, when your done you release a lever located in the wheele well and flip the ball over. You now have your bed back with nothing potruding. It cost me around $350 US with shipping and took my husband about 2 hours to install and he's never done it before (and rarely reads directions *grin*). The other cool thing is that you can buy aditional attachments for other "gooseneck" types, like king pin so you can also tow a camper trailer with it.
The thing to look for is you want the type that the ball is NOT hinged to the mechanisim, but the type that is a fully removeable slug. The hinge type tend to get loose and sloppy over time and make noise, the slug type stay snug indefinatly if installed right.
Had to tell you 'bout that option cause it is just the coolest thing since sliced bread and makes it soo you don't give up the bed of your truck to a hunk of unsightly metal
Emily |
Brian Kruse
| | Posted on Tuesday, Dec 28, 1999 - 8:07 pm: | |
I saw one of those in Idaho and got the address of a dealer. I liked the design like you did. I almost bought one for my "new" truck (new to me, it is an '89). If I recall, they are made in Montana, or there is a web page for a dealer that sells them in Montana. The lady that runs the sales counter at Golden Gait Trailer in Charlotte told me about the web page.
You are 100% on with regard to the swing up balls. Mine was loose like you mention, AND if it was left down and a little road grime got in it, it was a bear to open up. I busted a big screwdriver prying against that little finger hole to flip up the side gate that locks the ball. I don't know if the looseness meant anything, but it was really aggravating to feel a little bump at every speed change. The other big gripe I had was with the "UNIVERSAL" mounting kit. An $85 waste of money. All it was was two pieces of three inch channel and a few bolts that wouldn't work. Had to go to the hardware store for the needed hardware. I had better stuff rusting in the scrap pile.
The second installation I did I made a home made deal out of heavy tube steel and plate. I welded a nut under the plate and rigged everything so I could put the pieces in and bolt them together. For the few times I need the ball out of the back of the truck, I unscrew the ball. Sort of a pain, but I only need to take it out one or two times a year. The steel was $5 and the ball about $15. My time at $1 per hour, and the whole job came to $40.
I followed my own advice and go rid of a nearly new truck; the payments as well. I searched for a $6000 special and rigged it to be a tow and farm work truck. Already had a few scratches, but a gem in the rough. Instead of driving a new truck every day, I drive an older Honda to work and for all other chores. The truck stays attached to the trailer most of the time for instant use. The feed store hands chuckle at me when I load 10 bags of feed in that Honda, but at 35mpg, let them laugh. Let's see, that's two in the front seat, four in the back and four in the trunk. The old Accord squats a little but we still make it home. |
Eric L. Bainter
| | Posted on Wednesday, Dec 29, 1999 - 11:27 am: | |
As I am contemplating becoming the personal chauffer of my trusty steed, I was very interested in the hitch Emily described above (as well as the rest of the discussions) and searched out a website advertising it. If I understand the formatting directions that Dr O. is always pleading for us to use, you should be able to directly link to it at:
TurnoverBall.
If I bungled the formatting stuff, you can cut&paste or fatfinger into your browser "http://www.turnoverball.com/".
The info there is limited, but you get a picture of the hitch and can ask for product literature.
Cheers.
elb |
Chris Mills
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 6, 2000 - 12:00 pm: | |
What a sticky topic - I've seen more cyberspace arguments on trailers and towing than any other topic, perhaps with the exception of "long and low riding" LOL.
I went through this a few years ago. I ended up finding a used Brenderup 2-horse bumper pull that tows like a dream behind a Dodge Dakota mid-size truck. The truck is rated to tow 6800 lbs and is an extended cab, so has a nice long wheel base. I did have to get the tow package and the upgraded cooling package.
The trailer tows beautifully and I've had it on the interstate as well as hilly, back roads. It has non-electric brakes - when the truck slows down it slows down. It is very easy to maintain and is a comfortable ride. It is bright, airy and appealing to horses. I've had the floor replaced with "factory equipment." The materials were expensive, but the job was easy, so my bill was about the same as if it had a regular floor.
If you can, ride in a trailer yourself before buying it. Many are very bumpy, uncomfortable, etc.
I bought my truck first, and then found the trailer used. My truck is "over designed" for this trailer as it can be pulled with lessor vehicles. You can check with Brenderup for their recommendations. If you are buying a new trailer, the manufacturer can offer suggestions on vehicle, too.
We've a new Jeep Cherokee, too. It can pull the Brenderup, but hasn't yet as it is too nice to become the horse/dog vehicle.
Oddly enough, I had to drag my husband kicking and screaming to buy a truck years ago. Now he won't do without one because of the convenience of having the bed handy for any odd job.
The new Dakotas have the cab doors, too, so the access to the "rumble" seat area is easier.
I won't argue what is better. The ticket is decide what makes sense to your needs, hauling requirements, horse's size, pocket-book, etc. Europeans habitually haul with vehicles other than trucks without problems, and there are plenty of hills and highways there.
There is a fellow in Southern Pines (Shevas may be the spelling of his name) that publishes a book on trailering, etc. It might be worth a purchase. I believe I've seen it in some of the catalogs - State Line or Dover? I spoke with him when I began my search, before his book was published, and he gave me a lot of good information/considerations.
On thing he told me was that many people who choose goosenecks go back to bumper pulls! (I was under the impression that goosenecks were better than sliced bread then.) The point is that no one solution is right for everyone.
Good luck with your research and planning. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 7, 2000 - 8:31 am: | |
Hello Chris,
Concerning the push-pull (inertial) braking system I found one serious draw back: If your brakes go out on you you have no braking power at all. It was 1985 and we were coming down the hill from Blowing Rock on 421. I kinow you know the one. Half way down we completely lost our brakes (overheated) and it was a miracle we made it to the bottom without incident. I think the inertial system puts a little extra stress on the trucks brakes.
I discovered that day that on a 7% grade a truck and horse trailer running free will top out at about 65 miles per hour before it quits accelerating. I guess at this speed the wind resistance and friction just counteract the acceleration of gravity. My wife found this discussion riveting as we barreled down that highway.
One other comment, anyone who tells you many people who have driven goosenecks choose to go back to bumper-pulls has a bumper-pull he wants to sell.
 DrO |
Zoe English
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 7, 2000 - 12:11 pm: | |
Chris--where did you ever find a used Brenderup? I looked into getting one a year or so ago and was told by everyone I contacted they were rarer than witches' teeth--everyone hangs on to them. I would love a Brenderup, but now have a second horse instead (*G*). All we have to pull it is a Toyota 4-runner anyway. Maybe one day MY husband will give in on the truck! |
Chris Mills
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 7, 2000 - 2:15 pm: | |
Dr. O,
I know the hill. I can't imagine being a runaway vehicle down it, much less a runaway with a trailer. I also know some other folks that have had problems on it hauling horses.
Me, I've yet to haul a horse to the mountains. We are far enough away that a day trip is a pain and overnights with a horse limits our flexibility to do other things than ride. Plus, since my husband isn't horsey, riding around by myself isn't much fun. We end up hiking all the trials with our English Setter instead.
Wonder what the Europeans do when they haul over the Alps? (musing)
My truck has electric brakes set up for a trailer. I just don't have a trailer than can use them. If the Brenderup disappeared tomorrow, I'd buy one all over again. It is soooo sturdy and has held up very well. Since my husband is seldom around to do anything with the horse or trailer, I love that I can manage the Brenderup myself.
Glad nothing happened to you on that hill!
Zoe,
It was pure luck. A friend bought a saddle used from a lady advertising in the NC Agriculture Review, who was "hanging up her spurs" and quitting riding. While there, he noticed the Brenderup - thought it looked like a "kit" trailer and asked the lady about it. Then he happened to mention it to my riding instructor, who knew I was looking for a used trailer. She left a message on my machine. When I returned home from vacation a few days later, I got the message, called the lady with the trailer, out of the blue and asked her if she'd sell it! Which she did and it was a deal for me.
Pure luck. I attribute it to the fact I had a postcard on the refridge of the same trailer that Brenderup had sent me some years prior. I'd put it up there just to annoy my long suffering husband. So, maybe it was some sort of mind-actualization-karma type thing GRIN.
As far as convincing your man of the value of a truck, I think having one is the best argument. Jim was really unhappy when we got the truck - I did all the negotiation, etc. and just took him along to ink the deal - we got a great deal on it, too. I figure the guy decided the only way we'd get my husband it was to make it a deal he couldn't refuse. A great buying tactic.
Cheers. |
Eric L. Bainter
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 7, 2000 - 2:31 pm: | |
Chris
Re: your musing on what he Europeans use...
I was stationed on the German/Dutch border for nearly seven years, learned to ride at a Dutch stable my last three years in country. I am wracking my brain for memories of how they transported horses, but as the stable (and several others) were around the edges of a beautiful sandy forest, "travelling" was done on horseback. However, I cannot really remember ever seeing a horse TRAILER - can't say they didn't exist, I just don't remember it. I did see a Dutch rodeo (yes, the Dutch loved cowboys/roping/etc and had their own rodeo association and country music groups), and they used large trucks, not trailers.
Extrapolating from that, some other vague memories, and some readings, I believe they mostly used vans, i.e. trucks with the cargo section being one or more large stalls. I saw vans used in Saudi Arabia as well.
Maybe on of the UK regulars of this site will set us straight.
cheers.
elb |
Chris Mills
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 7, 2000 - 5:01 pm: | |
Eric,
I lived in Wiesbaden, Germany in the mid-'60s and we rode our horses all through/over town to the local shows.
I'm sure there was shipping, I just never noticed it. I don't know how the big gun's horses arrived. You know kids - we're oblivious. I know the German National and International drew all kinds of riders from many countries ...
Maybe our UK friends just ride 'em through the Chunnel, LOL.
Cheers. |
Helen Weedon
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2000 - 12:51 pm: | |
It would probably be quicker to ride through the Chunnel on horseback than to ride on a train!
My sister used to live in Germany, right on the border with Holland. Her neighbours had a two-horse trailer and the only transporters I saw being used were of this type.
Here in the UK we all dream of having a proper horse lorry with accommodation, a shower etc. Alot of people have a very basic version that will hold two or three horses and have an area behind the cab for storing tack etc. They can be bought quite cheaply second-hand. I suspect that more people use trailers as they don't attract road tax etc but it is recognised that they are not as pleasant a ride for the horse and potentially dangerous for a number of reasons. By the way, for those who don't know it, here in the UK it is absolutely illegal for a passenger to travel anywhere except in the cab with the driver or in the towing vehicle. It is not unknown for people to fall out of the jockey door onto the road. I've had to break the law a couple of times as my horse is epileptic and a terrible traveller and might have needed to be cut loose. How they put up with the noise I don't know and a smooth ride in the cab can be a very different situation in the back. A trailer ride must be terrifying as they swing about so much. |
Imogen Bertin
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2000 - 5:17 pm: | |
Helen
I really think it depends on the trailer. In Europe as well as Britain you will find the bog-standard Ifor Williams double horsebox trailer absolutely everywhere because they are safe, well built, don't racket around too much, have excellent brakes and incredibly sturdy ramps which encourage the horses to load without fuss. I have seen them in just about every European country I have visited - an export success story for Wales, where they are built.
I will confess to having (due to poverty and desperation) used a handbuilt wooden trailer with no brakes within recent memory. Sorry, horses. But I did drive very carefully and it is still in use ferrying a local kid and her longsuffering (because of the kid, not the horsebox) pony around to hunts and gymkhanas.
I also think if horses are used to travelling from an early age driven by someone who DOESN'T GO TO FAST it doesn't stress them out that much. It really helps if your horse is used to road potholes living in rural Ireland... Seriously, I think most people just drive trailers much too fast instead of allowing extra journey time and slowing down on all the corners.
Lorries/trucks are much better but seriously, who has the dosh for them other than the professionals?
All the best
Imogen |
Rick East (Rceiv)
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 29, 2000 - 3:48 pm: | |
A great reference book, "The Complete Guide to Buying, Maintaining, and Servicing a Horse Trailer", by Neva Kittrell Scheve with Thomas G. Scheve and published in 1998 by Howell Book House (A Simon & Schuster MacMillian Company) is available. I believe Chris Mills referred to this in one of his notes above. It has much detail on trailers and information on selecting a tow vehicle.
One item I found interesting is about slant vs straight. I have read articles and even advertisements that refer to studies that claim horses do better or prefer slant. This book states they do not know of any controlled study or research to support this. They also mentioned that slantload trailers became popular at about the same time as the introduction of rubber torsion suspension which may have distorted any conclusions.
Anyway, an interesting and informative book. With that and all of your personal experiences I am getting quite educated. Thanks Rick |
Darla Mitchell (Darla)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 14, 2001 - 1:11 pm: | |
Can anybody tell me what the difference is between a "V6", and a "V8"? I am shopping for a truck that will pull both a 2 horse, and a 4 horse bumper pull trailer. The truck I have in mind is a '97 Ford F250, 4.6L engine, with a V6 thinga-majiggy. I don't know what the V6 means in truck talk, but is it important to the towing ability? One other thing I need to know, my husband, who thinks he knows everything, is trying to talk me into buying a 1/2 ton pick-up. He says I don't need to have a 3/4 ton to pull our two horse trailers. (I drive the two horse 80% of the time, and the four horse the other 20%) He feels it's over-powered for my needs, plus it will be harder on gas, especially when it will be my only vehicle, and I'll need it to go grocery shopping, and that kind of stuff. I argue that it won't be enough truck to pull our 4 horse trailer, but he seems to think that having equalizer bars will distribute the weight off the truck onto the trailer. And my travels are on highways, mostly, I don't encounter hilly, gravelly roads where I might need the extra power. Can anyone give me their opinions on what truck I should decide on: a 3/4 ton or 1/2 ton? V6 or V8? Does anyone out there feel like they have the best truck going, and want to share? My must have's in a truck are: it has to be 4x4, be strong enough to pull a 2 horse trailer 80% of the time, and a 4 horse trailer 20% of the time (highway driving, no hills), good on gas (I don't want diesel), 3-door extended cab, or 4-door club cab, factory hitch, and I can't think of anything else. Up to this point we've driven a GMC, but what about the Ford's, or Dodges? |
Emily French (Jcsmoon)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 14, 2001 - 5:39 pm: | |
V6 and V8 refers to the number of cylanders the engine has. This, for the most part is the power part of the engine BUT depends on the transmission gearing. The transmission determines how that power is used and at what time. Some trucks are geared for highway use (taller geared), while others are geared for towing (lower geared).
Your 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton refers to the maximum weight that the axels are designed to haul. I personally would not recommend hauling a 4 horse bumper pull with a 1/2 ton as that is an excessive amount of weight behind your rear axel.
The biggest issue between 1/2 and 3/4 ton is the size of the breaks and other running gear parts; they are (typically) smaller and designed for less wear and tear which could be costly for you in the long run.
Gas mileage will depend on the size of engine that is in the truck. If you are looking at 1996 and newer the Chev/GMC offers the the Vortec 350 or 327 (V8) in most of its 1/2 and 3/4 ton trucks. Compared to the old 350 they get great gas mileage and have pleanty of power.
All in all I think you would be happiest and safest with a 3/4 ton with a V8 (chev 350 or 327, ford 351, dodge?). Getting a 4x4 and haveing sway bars will help the safety of the set up, along with the extra weight of haveing an extended cab.
Hope that helps. |
3rsatsmf (3rsatsmf)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 15, 2001 - 11:55 am: | |
I just bought an F250 V10 (!) to pull my 2 horse gooseneck with side ramp. OK, it may be a little more than I need, but the last thing I want to do is to not have enough power up a hill, or to wear out my engine towing. It is doing well, although I have less than 500 towing miles on it - just got it a month ago.
What you should do is first figure out how much towing power you need. I'd guess a 4-horse aluminum trailer is a good 7,500 lbs plus, then add the weight of 4 horses (1500 each) 6,000 for four horses winds you up 13,500 lbs, without even tack, hay, water, passengers in truck, etc. Next go to www.ford.com and check the amount of weight each truck can pull. That should help.
I was warned off of an F-150 V8 by a Pony Club Dad at my barn who had a virtually brand new one, attached to a 2 horse bumper pull trailer. His truck was for sale. He said that with pulling 2 horses, he didn't have enough power.
And, as for a 4WD -vs- 2WD, he said to me, "Get stuck once." :-)
Make sure you have a transmission cooler, in whatever you buy. They are standard in the F-250 Super Duty trucks, as well as larger brakes. |
Susan Daws (Monty)
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 16, 2001 - 10:33 pm: | |
Having towed a 2 horse for a year and a half now, I have a different perspective on towing from where I started out initially. A V6 engine is definitely not big enuf, especially if you are considering a 4 horse as well as a 2 horse. V8 would be the minimum engine size to consider. I tow with a 1/2 ton with a 3.73 rear axle. It is fine on the highway with no hills but struggles with long climbs with 2 horses. I can't imagine doing it with a 4 horse rig. Make sure you find out the rear axle differential on whatever you buy...it really has a great role to play in how much you can tow. The higher the rear axle rating, the more towing capacity. Both Ford and Chevy make a 4.10 rear end that is really ideal for 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton towing. The other really important thing I learned is that length matters (hasn't that what we've always been told?). Buy a vehicle with a looong wheelbase...the longer the base, the more stable the ride and the less you'll feel like the "tail is wagging the dog." Finally, if you really do intend to tow a 4 horse, I think a 3/4 ton is really the way to go. I could be wrong, but I think most 1/2 tons will pull about 7000 lbs, definitely not enough for a fully loaded 4 horse. Best of luck in your search. |
Cheryl Anderson (Canderso)
| | Posted on Friday, Aug 17, 2001 - 7:55 am: | |
I suspect our european members are chuckling away at this discussion.
I was in Ireland recently and attended a fairly large h/j event. I stopped counting the number of double trailers loaded up with HUGE horses pulled by Toyota Rav4's, Subaru Foresters, Honda CR5'S and other 'cute utes' we in North America would consider woefully inappropriate!! |
Zoe English (Nonie)
| | Posted on Friday, Aug 17, 2001 - 5:01 pm: | |
Cheryl--
And how many of those double trailers might have been good old Brenderups? (GRIN)
Zoe |
Emily French (Jcsmoon)
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2001 - 11:08 am: | |
Cheryl- That is just scarey, unfortunatly it will be the horses that pay for people trying to tow with a vehicle that weighs less than its trailer. Heck, 2 good sized horses alone out weigh those vehicles- people should have their heads exsamined.-Emily |
lynne ashforth (Lynnea)
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2001 - 12:32 pm: | |
Cheryl, I also had the Irish introduction to towing..We had been on a long ride through the country (beautiful) to a little town called Kinnity for lunch. From there they would trailer our horses back and we would go in cars. Except for my little Cob, the other three horses were big. When I saw the size of the horse van and the toyota truck, I was beside myself. The van was not much bigger than our two horse trailers here and they jammed those four horses inside like sardines. The tires were also no bigger than the ones on my wheelbarrow and basically went almost flat with the weight. The guys hauling laughed at me for my concern, but I insisted on following the horses back, in case they broke down..so I could help the horses if needed. To this day I still worry about the transportation used there. I guess because the roads are so narrow throughout the c ountry our big trucks and trailers perhaps wouldn't do, but I felt the horses were at risk, and I too saw many similar rigs on the road when we traveled around. |
Eric L. Bainter (Baintere)
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 20, 2001 - 1:45 pm: | |
Perhaps a variant of Emily's concern: I would not worry as much about buying a vehicle big enough to get a trailer moving up a hill as I would would buying a vehicle big enough to control it and stop it while going down the other side. Adequate weight, wheelbase length, and brakes are high up on my priority list, as well as reliable wiring. It's easy to find a big engine and tranny (and I think the extra tranny cooler should be part of the package).
And while you are at it, have a vehicle and/or trailer big enough to carry along all the extra stuff you need if you break down. I.e. can you change your trailer or vehicle tire yourself? Water for the horse in case you are stuck for awhile? It gets really hot here in Texas, and getting a flat or some other show-stopper in some inconvenient sunny place is one of my not-happy thoughts. |
Emily French (Jcsmoon)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 21, 2001 - 11:13 am: | |
Well said Eric, it is one thing to get a trailer moveing, it is a another thing to get it stoped... and that should be the bigger concern when chooseing tow vehicles. |
Elizabeth Donahue (Paul303)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 21, 2001 - 12:18 pm: | |
Just returned from a trip to Scotland. The trailer tow vehicle thing there seems the same as Ireland. However, with the road situation that exists, it's understandable. Most of the truck/trailer combos we are comfortable with would present a serious road hazard over there. Gee whiz, in the mini-van we rented, I felt myself sucking in my stomach everytime we met an oncoming ( WRONG-SIDE-OF-THE-ROAD ) vehicle. |
Jaime Taft (Jtaft)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Aug 21, 2001 - 4:40 pm: | |
I just wanted to chime in with another option, if the original poster were interested in something relatively small yet large and powerful enough to pull a trailer. I have a 2000 Toyota Tundra that I have been successfully pulling my Trails West 2 horse slant bumper pull for a year and half now with. Now I will say I don't have much experience with towing, being the only towing situation I've ever known. But I will say I have no problems with my truck and its towing ability. The Tundra is a 1/2 ton, on the small size for a "bigger" truck, but with 4 doors and full backseat. Its towing capacity is I believe 7200 or 7400 lbs. My trailer weighs about 3200 lbs, so fully loaded with two horses I'm close to max but still under it. This is also my only driving vehicle, and having never driven anything larger than a honda accord prior, I found it to be quite "car-like" to drive and manuever. It is quiet and smooth, and I do not get pulled around by the trailer, and have plenty of acceleration with the V8 to do just fine on hills to my experience. I do use, because the truck is on the light side, stabilizer bars, at the trailer dealer's recommendation. I liked this truck so much my trainer bought one also to trailer her horses with, and lately at the shows I've seen quite a few of them. I do get a lot of disbelief from faithful Ford/Chevy/Dodge truck drivers, but yes, a Toyota can pull a horse trailer (and a real one too, not one of those Brenderups!). |
Kathleen Keating (Keating)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2001 - 2:16 am: | |
Can anyone tell me whether a standard transmission is still to be preferred for towing? We are about to look for a newer truck for towing our stock trailer in which we normally pull 2 horses but sometimes 3 and rarely 4 - none of them large. We will be doing some towing up and down long hills.
My understanding is that the newer automatic transmissions are as good as, or better than, the standards for towing.
Any advice would be appreciated. |
3rsatsmf (3rsatsmf)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2001 - 8:22 am: | |
Hi Kathleen -
I just bought a 2001 F250 automatic. I did alot of research on towing vehicles to find what I thought would work best for me. My design basis was this: (I am an engineer so this is how I think!)
I bought a warmblood size, 2horse straight load gooseneck trailer with a 6' side ramp and 4' dressing room. Total length 21-1/2' and about 8,000 lbs. Add to that 3,000 lbs of horse and another 1,000 lbs of people, tack, hay, water, etc. Total is 12,000 lbs.
Then I went to www.ford.com and found the towing specs for their vehicles. And, as it turns out, the automatics can tow about 500 lbs more than the manuals! I bought a V-10 F-250 4x4 (one of the pony club dads said, "get stuck once"!) with 13,700 lbs of towing capacity. So, I am well within the range.
So a very long answer to your very simple question is: Automatics can tow more than Standards. I wouldn't think of adding the complexity of a Standard to the whole towing-thing anyway! I already have enough to worry about to make sure my guys have a safe, comfortable ride.
Kind Regard,
Joni |
Elizabeth Donahue (Paul303)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2001 - 7:29 pm: | |
Joni is right, and picture this: you're stopped at a red light on a STEEP hill......what happens when the light turns green and some un-horsey jerk is sitting 3" from you're trailer's back bumper? |
Kathleen Keating (Keating)
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 15, 2001 - 12:26 am: | |
Thanks, Joni and Elizabeth
You've confirmed my feeling that even if there IS something to be gained in terms of power with a manual, I DON'T want to be in situation you describe, stopped on a hill. I'll be looking for an automatic.
Appreciate your taking the time to write.
Kathleen |
Bonita (Bonita)
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 15, 2001 - 7:37 am: | |
I have always been a Chevy/GMC Suburban fan - in fact, I am now in the process of trying to locate a well-running, cheap "oldie-but-goodie" to use as a tow vehicle.
While surfing around E-Bay, found what my husband feels would be the PERFECT tow vehicle for me - a 1976 Suburban that had been converted into an ambulance. Not only could I tow my horses, but I'd also have something to go to the hospital in when I have my next horsey accident!!! |
Alicia Kost
Member
Username: Aannk
Post Number: 144
Registered: 6-2001
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