Site Menu:
This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below: |
HorseAdvice.com » Horse Care » Routine Horse Care » Turn Out and Putting Horses on Pasture » |
Discussion on One hour turnout or all day turnout-this is the question | |
Author | Message |
Posted on Friday, Feb 18, 2000 - 1:56 pm: Hi all:I just bought a 5-year old TB jumper. He's great. I am starting him off right away with a "SENSE" therapist. This is someone who is more than a massage therapist in that she "teaches" the muscles and also helps the muscles to relax. I have had her work on other horses I've leased and owned and its helped them to move better and to be more comfortable. She states that for the horse to have full benefit of her treatments, he needs to be on turnout all day to stretch his muscles, body, etc. Also, I believe that a horse is happier if he's out all day. (tell me if you think so too!) HOWEVER, at my barn there are only two choices, one hour turnout (5 acres) for an individual horse or 8 hours (10 acres) turnout for a group. The trainer believes that the horse risks getting hurt if he's out with the herd and that I should put him in the individual turnout pen. The SENSE therapist says the horse will get stiff if he's not turned out all day. What is the right decision, in your opinion. And which is best for the horse. Thanks, Liz |
|
Posted on Friday, Feb 18, 2000 - 2:40 pm: Hello Liz,The 8 hour turnout on 10 acres has to be better for the horse. The only query I would have in your position is about the "group", i.e. are they fairly nicely-behaved horses, or are they hooligans. And how many horses are in the group? I don't think 10 acres should have more than perhaps 5 horses? Not sure about that, though. Trouble is that horses can always get hurt, just playing, just having a nice canter - my little tb had his skull fractured from playing with my other two, and there are only 3 horses on 10 acres. But horses must be horses and allowed to be horses, so even though we pamper them and wrap them up and protect them as best we can [and I really am one of those people!!], it is still good for them to be out with friends grazing and living as normal a life as possible. The decision has to be yours, though - not the therapist nor the trainer, even though one listens to their advice because that's why we have them. But the ultimate decision is yours. Alexa |
|
Posted on Friday, Feb 18, 2000 - 3:07 pm: definately group turnout for longer, horses were intended to be in herds, not alone, and intended to be out much of the time |
|
Posted on Friday, Feb 18, 2000 - 3:32 pm: Hi all:There are currently 10 or 11 horses on the 10 acre pasture. I have heard from people who have their horses out there that lately, the horses have been hooligans, but typically they are well-behaved. Liz |
|
Posted on Friday, Feb 18, 2000 - 4:41 pm: Hey Liz,Until I bought my own farm, my girls were always out with the herd (25 or more horses). They figure things out for themselves and establish the rank. Your horse will learn his position in the herd. He may get a few bumps and bruises until that position is settled... but, as Alexa said -- you can't protect them from everything, no matter how hard you try. And he will be much happier in the comfort of a herd -- and with all day turnout. My horses would go NUTS on one hour a day. Sheila |
|
Posted on Friday, Feb 18, 2000 - 5:26 pm: Hey all,Thanks for the great input. I tend to agree, but I guess I am afraid to go against the trainer's advice. All the show horses go out for 1 hour a day. My old horse, who had COPD, was out all day and sometimes all night and he was very happy. But, the new horse is healthy and the trainer has him out 1 hour a day. How do you tell your trainer you don't agree with him without making him mad, or should I care? Thanks, Liz |
|
Posted on Friday, Feb 18, 2000 - 11:05 pm: Hi Liz--I'm a believer in lots of turnout. I have my horses at home, so it's easier for me than it would be in a boarding situation. Mine are out, on average, 12 to 18 hours a day, depending on the weather. (over 100 in the summer, treacherous clay footing during the winter rains) They don't always get along perfectly, but the areas they have are big enough for the chasee to get away from the chaser. They get ouchies, but never (knock wood) anything serious. I think that exercise/turnout decreases the horses' chances of developing colic and prevents bad habits such as cribbing and weaving. It's difficult to go against a trainer, but you are the expert (scarey as that is for me) when it comes to your own horses. Remember that your trainer works for YOU. He certainly isn't paying you for the privilege of training your horse, so you do have the final word. Remember that there are many, many good trainers around. |
|
Posted on Friday, Feb 18, 2000 - 11:12 pm: Hi Liz--I'm a believer in lots of turnout. I have my horses at home, so it's easier for me than it would be in a boarding situation. Mine are out, on average, 12 to 18 hours a day, depending on the weather. (over 100 in the summer, treacherous clay footing during the winter rains) They don't always get along perfectly, but the areas they have are big enough for the chasee to get away from the chaser. They get ouchies, but never (knock wood) anything serious. I think that exercise/turnout decreases the horses' chances of developing colic and prevents bad habits such as cribbing and weaving. It's difficult to go against a trainer, but you are the expert (scarey as that is for me) when it comes to your own horses. Remember that your trainer works for YOU. He certainly isn't paying you for the privilege of training your horse, so you do have the final word. Remember that there are many, many good trainers around. |
|
Posted on Saturday, Feb 19, 2000 - 6:28 am: Oh dear, Kim, that is a difficult question! It does so depend on how you feel about the trainer. If you love him dearly, value his involvement with you and your horse, think he is the bees knees with his knowledge, experience and teaching – then you won’t want to upset him or alienate him. But, mind you, if you have that sort of relationship with him, he should understand your thinking and your affection and concern for your horse and you should have a high level of communication. In that case, he will understand your desire to do the best thing for your horse and put him out all day.On the other hand, if he is your trainer because he is the barn trainer, and you have no choice, or if he is your trainer because he is the trainer of the successful show horses at the barn [and you’re competitive and the horse is valuable/beautiful/bought for competing], etc. and you can therefore really play at being ‘THE CLIENT’ [because he needs you and your fees as well, don’t forget] – then I think you can put your foot down and state your wishes and requirements. The reason that he doesn't want your horse out all day is because of the risk of injury – and the resultant DrOp in fees, presuming you pay him by the lesson/hour, whatever. These matters are sensitive – and let’s face it, many horsey people are drama queens [well, they are here and I know they are in the U.K.] – so if you decide to put your boy out all day, you’ll have to weigh it all up and somehow handle this trainer. Regardless, you shouldn't be worried about upsetting him, making him angry, etc. etc. If you start off like that, he will always have the upper hand with you, always be able to bully you and your horse – and that just is not right, not with horses, not with life. So be brave - do what's right for you and your horse. Alexa |
|
Posted on Sunday, Feb 20, 2000 - 9:33 am: Dear all:Thanks so much for your support. I actually had a talk with one of the teachers yesterday and told her my dilemma. Her suggestion was to tell the trainer (her boss) that we put the horse out for one month and if all goes well we will keep it that way and if not we will return to the other way or some sort of combination between the two. So, I believe that is what I will do. Alexa, you are right about the second scenario, he is the show guy and one of his employees is actually the horse's and my trainer/teacher. So, that is the situation, he is worried, I think about losing income from having an injured client's horse. But, like you said I'm paying him and I should be able to put my foot down. So, I will. Thanks again. Liz |
|
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2001 - 2:15 pm: Liz, I would dump any trainer who recommends so little turnout. That is simply unbelievable. Horses are horses, not trinkets to put in a jewelry box. Do what you can to get your horse as much turnout as possible - even if you have to move to a new barn. 1 hour of turnout is nothing more than horse abuse, no matter how the trainer tries to dress it up. Good Luck!Valerie |
|
Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2001 - 10:54 pm: Hi Liz,Most trainers don't want their show horses out for very long for several reasons. 1. Their coats bleach out and 2. If on grass, they will tend to get hay belly. As far as injury is concerned, a high strung horse is more likely to injur himself if cooped up than if he is turned out. A rather mellow horse, will tend to become dull if left by himself. My show horses were always turned out in to paddocks and with proper nutrition and the additon of some wheat germ oil, their coats were shinnier than most that were stabled all the time. At the shows other exhibitors used to come up to me asking what I was using to make them so shiny when I wasn't putting anything on them at all. However, I did turn them out for only about 1 to 2 hrs. twice daily onto pasture to keep their stomachs tucked. (note, these were Arabians and were easy keepers). Don't ever forget that you are paying the bills and are the owner of the horse. Your trainer, vet whatever, is your employee when they are working with your horse. The last word concerning your animal is always yours. |
|
Posted on Monday, Aug 6, 2001 - 5:56 pm: I have to add to this for the other side of the coin.We have one hour turnout a day for 70 horses. Owners can put their own horses together. But not in groups outside of their own horses, (the paddocks are small- 1/2 or 1/3 acres). So, my two get turned out for and hour or so aday. It just makes life a little more challenging to keep them happy. I have them out doing stuff or following me around, but they aren't too unhappy as you may think. sometimes they romp but mostly they just sunbathe in that time. What about asking about night turnout? We have that option too. 8 hours a few nights a week, couple with the daily hour is better, too. If the group of horses tend to be hooligans, etc. and you feel better not turning them out, your guy isn't going to be despondent over this. Granted the ideal situation is 24 hours turnout . Also, it is inevitable that he is going to get cuts, bruises, scratches, stuff that doesn't look so good in the show ring or for sale horses. I wish I could turn out 24 hours but if you don't you just need to be more creative in keeping him happy. jo Oh, i think the rule of thumb for grazing is one horse per acre. But, I have seen 30 horses on 10 acres live quite nicely and not too much rucus. |
|
Posted on Monday, Aug 6, 2001 - 6:18 pm: The rule of thumb for turnout of 1 horse per acre pertains to horses being supported by pasture alone with no extra hay or grain. It also does not take into consideration size and condition. |
|
Posted on Monday, Aug 6, 2001 - 6:25 pm: Hello all, I am pleased that you are all replying to my post. However, I posted it originally in February 2000...I am confused as to why it has been revived. But you are all very helpful. I currently have my horse on 8 hour turnout. He lives in a barn where they are turned out in the morning and stay out till about 3 in the afternoon. The only thing I worry about right now is the heat. However, he does not seem that affected by it. He loves his life, and has developed a little hay belly but we won't hold it against him. The only down side is that sometimes he gets beat up a little, but never anything life threatening or serious.Thanks again, liz |
|
Posted on Monday, Aug 6, 2001 - 7:08 pm: Hi Liz,Too funny! Looks like we all got going without ever looking at the date of your post. So, we've been giving you a bunch of information that you already know. LOL. But real glad to hear your horse is doing well. |
|
Posted on Monday, Aug 6, 2001 - 10:46 pm: this is the best thing I have heard all day... Ya see just get us started on something and we never go away.... tooo funny. |
|
Posted on Monday, Aug 13, 2001 - 6:53 am: Well while we are reviving the dead, this rule of thumb of one (regular size) horse / one acre depends so heavily on:1) climate you live in 2) managment of the pasture 3) other management of the horses as to be all but useless. The numbers can vary from 2 horses per acre to 1 horse per 5 to 10 acres. In moderate climates where grasses grow well 1 horse per 2 acres is about right for free grazing pastures but with intensive management this can go up to 2 horses per acre. For more on management see the articles in the pasture section and see Care for Horses: Pastures: Forums (public): Rotational grazing. DrO |
|