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Jynx
New Member
Username: Jynx2501
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 5:39 pm: |   |
Dr. O and all,
We have a 28 year old TB gelding who used to have periodic bouts of diarrhea if he either got into any alfalfa or got too upset over any given situation. He dropped alot of weight last winter, so prior to this winter we started him on Senior Feed and Rice Bran in addition to a pasture mix hay. He put the weight back on and wasn't having diarrhea very often, he was hale and happy. Well, about 3 months ago, we adopted a 7 year old mustang mare that Willow went nuts over. He herds her everywhere, yells for her if she is out of his sight, and generally acts like a love struck idiot! Unfortunately, his diarrhea returned about 2 weeks after Cali came into his life. Other than his excitability over Cali, everything is normal with him. I introduced dry wheat bran into his diet which at first helped somewhat, I gave him Probiotics which also helped a little then stopped. He isn't dehydrated, doesn't act sick, is keeping his weight on despite chasing her tail all day every day. But his diarrhea is extremely soft, not really watery, just too soft to hold any form. Any suggestions anyone? |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 159
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 7:59 pm: | |
My old paint horse also gets diarrhea from any little thing, including the grass in the summer. I found a cup of a psyllium product like
Sand Clear in his morning feed absorbed the excess liquid and prevented messy rear and legs. This is a measure you could try while he is still in his state of excitement. Psyllium seems to be an equalizer when it comes to digestive problems. It doesn't work as well if you split the cup into two feedings -- put it all into one. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14788
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 13, 2006 - 8:31 pm: | |
Hi Jynx,
Couldn't resist the pun, sorry. Basically I suggest you quit worrying, many horses have this problem and other than keeping the tail clean is no big deal concerning the general health of your horse. If you would like to see a long list of treatment options that have helped others see the article at, Equine Diseases » Colic and GI Diseases » Diarrhea in Horses » Diarrhea an Overview.
DrO |
Jynx
New Member
Username: Jynx2501
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 1:12 pm: | |
Dr. O and Vicki,
Thank you for the advice. I am trying different things to see if I can clear it up, I will try the Psyllium to see if that helps. As long as he is holding his weight and is well, I won't worry too much.
You are forgiven for the pun Dr. O. I am one of those people whose names beg for such things. |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 163
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 3:06 pm: | |
Good luck, Jynx -- My boy thrives in spite of this annoying problem and is an easy keeper. He is now nearly 20 years old and has had this problem ever since I got him at 8 years of age. Sometimes my guy has actually been helped by worming, when other times worming gave him the "squirts." If he gets a little sand in his gut he will also get worse, and the psyllium helps in that regard as well. If he eats a little something different or goes out on a trail ride he gets worse! Any excitement will set it off. I used various probiotics with limited success and now the feed I give him contains probiotics. I had the best luck with the psyllium, which he has been off of since winter came, though I still "sand" him 7 days of each month. When the pasture comes back in it will be interesting to see if he resumes with the loose manure. For him that would be normal. |
Kim von Asten
Member
Username: Twhgait
Post Number: 37
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 5:54 pm: | |
Hi Jynx!!
I too have a gelding who's had diarrhea off and on since last September (he's 8.5 months old now). I tried every product, worked with my vet into the hundreds of dollars and eventually posted to Dr.O, who told me not to worry about it  . It always came off and on, no reasons, no warning but he always grew and gained good weight. I finally just quit worrying about it. Now that he's off everything to "fix" it and I'm not obsessed over it, it has essentially stopped! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14804
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 8:05 pm: | |
Your words Kim are like gold falling from heaven, let's see who picks them up. But always be sure you check your management as described in the article referenced above.
DrO |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 164
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 14, 2006 - 8:19 pm: | |
You are quite right, Dr. O, but when you must keep a horse like this cleaned up on a daily basis for weeks or months at a time, you embrace ways to ease that burden, even if what creates the mess appears to do no harm. If left coated on the horse's behind, it will do harm after a while. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14812
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 - 9:24 am: | |
That is the problem Vicki, that most of what we do does not make a difference. for instance you use psyillium and feels it makes a difference do to sand clearance, yet one very well conducted experiment has shown that sand does not clear any faster with psyillium than without and there are no experiments to contradict this. I certainly have seen my share or dirty tails and scalded butts but I suggest caution in relating cause and effect. Most often it is just the natural ying and yang of stools, and constant fiddling with the diet often makes it worse.
DrO |
Jynx
New Member
Username: Jynx2501
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 - 12:02 pm: | |
My motto is: ~Let common sense prevail~ So I shall... He is at a healthy weight this year, good coat and beginning to get nice muscle build out from chasing the mare about. I think I will wait, watch and see how he progresses with this.
Thank you. |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 165
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 15, 2006 - 3:43 pm: | |
When there is a drastic irregularity in either direction with a horse's digestive system, I think the psyllium can be an equalizer (as some humans take Konsyl or other psyllium for irritable bowel syndrome), but if I could afford to hire someone to wash this white and palomino paint horse's butt and legs (not that all that water is good for his hooves!) every day I would probably do so. In fact, I hate the idea of putting him on it again if he gets really bad this summer, because I think it could effect the absorption of nutrients to use it for an extended time. You are entirely right about horses being individuals, and if in the summer when the grass is in, and his manure suddenly turns "normal looking" all on its own -- that is usually a bad sign for him that something is wrong. I'm well aware of the study you refer to about psyllium for sanding but know that in my area horses are lost every year due to sand colic with many pounds of sand in their guts that obviously didn't exit, and can probably guarantee you NONE of those horses were sanded regularly, but maybe there are other factors at play as well. Some horses seem to ingest more sand than others no matter what you do. I also know the best thing is to avoid the sand going in, but the only way to accomplish that here would be to stall horses on mats without turning them out. When the horses are on the psyllium the manure has a stickiness to it and when I have monitored the amount of sand passing through their systems, it seems to increase during the days of psyllium use -- especially on the later days of use. I have heard flax seed recommended to make hard manure balls more normal so wonder if that will ever be found useful to push sand through. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14820
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 16, 2006 - 8:14 am: | |
I wish I could tell you there is something that works Vicki. My main concern is that folks will use the psyllium as a crutch and then not do everything they can management wise to prevent exposure. There is more that can be done than just stalling horses and for those who don't know where it is see, Equine Diseases » Colic and GI Diseases » Colic in Horses » Sand Colic.
DrO |
Darren Robertson
Member
Username: Unicorn
Post Number: 41
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 - 5:52 pm: | |
I have one good cure for most of the scouring I have seen, especially when linked to weight loss in older horses. Though my old mare did not really loose weight the first time 9 years ago.
Now she is nearly 30 she has more on the weight loss side than scouring, another mare scours the instant I forget to worm her.
Only Moxidectin works if it is the odd parasite is the trigger to the scouring and weight loss.
The improvement in health is very quick, I have seen it work in about 200 horses.
All around Sydney there is talk of the Uni doing trials to isolate the parasite that only reacts to one wormer.
So it pays to be persistant when trying to find the cause to horse health problems.
The advantage is that you can do the treatment at home and watch the horse improve and it is cheap.
Regards
Darren |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 1185
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 21, 2006 - 7:15 pm: | |
Why am I suddenly getting this feeling of deja-vu? Have I heard this before somewhere?  |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14861
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 - 8:08 am: | |
This is a little better Sara and Darren is framing this right: if parasitism is the cause moxidectin should help keeping in mind the caveats that come with this dewormer.
DrO |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 169
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 22, 2006 - 12:23 pm: | |
Interesting, Darren; and I remember the thread from before about the weight loss and Moxidectin. My horse who has had this messy manure situation has no problem keeping weight on and is somewhat overweight. I've had a Vet recommend NOT giving him Moxidectin because his system is so touchy, but in fact when I wormed him with it in the past it CLEARED UP his problem for a period of time. I bought some doses of this to use on my boys this year and now am a little nervous because so many people say don't use that product. Since none of them had an adverse reaction (I used according to weight instructions) in the past perhaps I should not worry? Thanks Dr. O, Darren, Kim and Jynx. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14870
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 - 7:23 am: | |
They said the same thing about ivermectin when it first came out Vicki. Read our articles on deworming Vicki and follow the label instructions and the product is very safe and you may permanently get rid of your diarrhea. Your history suggests your horse lives in a very wormy environment, is there a reason this would be true?
DrO |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 170
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 23, 2006 - 1:09 pm: | |
You may be onto something here, but unless central Florida is generally "very wormy" I don't think my horses live in a "very wormy environment." There are only 3 horses ages 14, 15, and he is nearly 20. Only cattle were on my property for a number of years before I came here. I have been dealing with this situation for 12 years, ever since I got him. I believe that worms may contribute to the situation at times. Sometimes worming has helped and other times worming has set the problem off to a very high-level! I follow a good worming program and also run fecals from time to time. This guy has had a few ("not a serious amount") of Stongyls. The other horses were "clear." I have lots of pasture and they can separate their toilet and eating areas, though that doesn't guarantee they do. There are times I have had to board them out for a few weeks and that could cause complications. When boarded out he is the same as at home -- sometimes bad and sometimes clear. I have used Quest in the past but usually not more than once yearly, so perhaps using it this entire year could make a good difference to this horse since he responded to it well in the past. This horse weighs around 1300 pounds and it is possible that sometimes the amount of dosage may not have been enough for him since he is also skillful at spitting out part of the wormer. Any little stress can cause the problem to surface, including an increase in outdoor temperature, excitement, riding him off the property, minor diet additions. He does not do well with the heat, and I had thought him much worse because of the grass in the summer but have wondered whether it may be due partially to the heat. This guy will also eat a variety of weeds (and even saw him eat some hallucinogenic mushrooms once). The year after I got this horse (he always had a runny butt) he had the thumps after over working in the heat and tested positive for salmonellosis. We actively treated it and he eventually tested clear 5 times, but I wonder if he is shedding at times of stress, though the others have never caught it and he is an "easy keeper." He has had exposure to ponds at various times in his life and I have one on my property though I now keep temporary fencing up to keep them out of it. I will let you know if he does better this summer with Moxidectin wormings. He was almost perfect last summer with daily psyllium, but I don't plan to use that this year unless I get desperate. Prior to last summer I also changed my grain and I have been more diligent to give him a larger amount of wormer each time and add extra if he spits some out. When I think back I can say he is greatly better this past year with only a few, less intense outbreaks but I am afraid to get my hopes up that it will continue through the summer. Also of interest is that I switched over to your recommended worming program over the past year rather than rotating a larger variety of wormers, and perhaps that is part of why we are doing better! Sorry this got so long but now you REALLY have all the information. Thanks, Dr. O. It will be very interesting to see how he does this summer and I will let you know. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 14884
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 24, 2006 - 7:13 am: | |
Hmmm....both psyllium and beet pulp have been associated with resolving diarrhea. As you may know already know psyllium does not really move sand faster than without but there may be other benefits.
If this horse continues to have a few strongyles you may also consider doubling the frequency of his (and just his) deworming. Maybe there is a behavioral or immunological reason for this.
DrO |
Vicki Zaneis
Member
Username: Vickiann
Post Number: 172
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 24, 2006 - 8:15 am: | |
Thanks Dr. O. If I can continue to reduce this problem to a few break-through flare ups it would be great! |
