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Vicki L. Hall
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 18, 2000 - 11:46 am: |   |
I am wondering about the safety of adding chlorine to a stock watering tank to control the growth of algae in the summer. Is that necessary or desirable? My husband thinks it is. I would think that you have to be careful to not add too much and too little wouldn't help at all. Any thoughts? |
Trudy & Ed Moody
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 18, 2000 - 12:23 pm: | |
Vicki,
I have heard of people having success with adding bleach to the water . I have not tried this because I did not know how safe it was. I have tried gold fish, minnows, and algae-eater fish who haven't put a dent in my algae growth. I was also concerned that the fish were producing waste that the horses were drinking (Yuk!). I'd love to hear what works and is safe too. |
Lois Berenyi
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 19, 2000 - 1:09 am: | |
My local feed store carries something to put in livestock tanks (there's a picture of cattle on it) but I don't know if it's some sort of antibiotic treatment or not. Also wondered if the water purifier tablets sold in camping supply stores would work against the algae.
What I do that seems to work the best, although time consuming, is to empty the tubs on a hot sunny day (provide temporary source of water for the horses). Let the tub dry completely, literally let it bake. Then when hot and dry use a paint scraper and the algae peels right off. It's a lot less messy than trying to scrub it out wet. |
Vicki L. Hall
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 19, 2000 - 2:02 pm: | |
Thanks Lois,
I will check at the rural farm store I'm going to today to see if they have anything. This is a hundred gallon stock tank that we fill from our well so I can't really be emptying it very often to clean it. We had been using a laundry tub for our two horses and that was easy to empty and clean. Thanks for the input though. |
Vicki L. Hall
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 10, 2000 - 8:48 pm: | |
Here's an update on the problem of algae in a stock tank. I decided to try simply removing the gunk floating on top. I purchase a net normally used for skimming leaves out of pools and have started skimming the tank each day as I fill it. The water seems to stay somewhat cleaner. Sometimes I skim down to the bottom. This seems to help the algae situation. Just thought I pass the suggestion along. I haven't put bleach in the water yet. |
Cheryl Anderson
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2000 - 5:53 am: | |
Hi Vicki,
I your tank out in the direct sun? Have you tried moving your tank into the shade? The reason why I ask is I know from our swimming pool that warmth REALLY promotes algae growth. |
TRACEY LOMAX
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2000 - 6:08 am: | |
Hi, all.
There was a similar discussion on the endurance site which I subscribe to. General consensus seemed to be vinegar in the tank or some fish in the tank.
If anyone's interested, the site is www.endurance.net and the discussion was in the forum (ridecamp archives). |
Jordana Meisner
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 11, 2000 - 10:14 am: | |
On another site I visit, a warmblood site, there was just a discussion on this - lots of people have had great luck with the large goldfish. Not sure if they were the koi or not, but they used about 3 for the large tanks, and did not feed them. The key to their survival seemed to be to start with a slightly dirty tank and to keep it full enough so that the water didn't get too warm. And, of course, to bring them in (or sell them, or whatever) before things got too cold. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2000 - 5:48 am: | |
DrO
One of the hats I have worn in my life was a ornamental fish hobbiest and was even a full time professional for 4 years. I have wondered about these conversations on using fish for algae control and consider it possible: gold fish and koi both are omnivores and have mouth parts suitable for scrapping algae off walls. On the other hand they will not stand total neglect and I have wondered about the varying conditions you might find in different water tubs.
Plain gold fish would be prefered over Koi do to expense, both are hardy. Both prefer much cooler temperatures than would be found in the average water tub in the summer in much of the world, the problem is oxygen: hot water does not hold as much as cold water does. But if not too extreme and not too many fish, it could be pulled off. Both will live fine under a thin layer of ice as long as it is broken up daily. When the temp gets cold they will require very little feed. I could see in the summer that the insects falling in the tub and algae produced might balance with the fish: they tend to grow to match the conditions.
I guess what I am saying is it is just like your horses: you have to have some information and be able to look at the stock and tell when it is healthy. If they are unhealthy you will need to be able to determine the likely cause. A big factor in your sucess will be the inital health of the fish: if bought from unscrupulous (or more commonly: unknowing) sources they frequently carry parasites that will end up killing them.
DrO |
TRACEY LOMAX
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2000 - 6:35 am: | |
Just one thing to add, and it may sound funny, but it's worth bearing in mind. I took PG past my neighbour's koi pond the other day and let him have a look inside (because he'd spooked at it). Lo and behold! He thought the fish were carrots and went, um, fishing.
Just a thought... |
Stephany Coate
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2000 - 10:06 am: | |
Tracey-
I just have to say that's too funny. Imagine your horse's surprise! *laf* |
Lois Berenyi
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2000 - 12:53 pm: | |
Dr. O...what about the waste products of the fish? Wouldn't that contaminate the water? I used to have an aquarium and found cleaning the tank to be a rather yucky job. Bigger fish, bigger tank, bigger yuck + algae. Cats and local herons may find it interesting though. I know people who put in ponds and koi (almost as big bucks as horses, per lb.) and the herons took them out almost every morning. Now you've got big bird poop in there too. Yummy. And to stretch the imagination even further in a really large stock tank, populated with fish, you could now find assorted reptiles attracted to both the fish and the birds. Sort of like having your own Discovery Channel. I think I've seen too much of this stuff lately. The guy finding an 8 ft. alligator in his swimming pool brought all this to mind as well as the giant Japanese salamander (about the same size) that catches dinner-sized fish and the Santa Catalina rattlesnake that goes in trees to catch birds, to say nothing of the snakes and wildlife on "Survivor" and the latest evidence of the Loch Ness Monster. I think I'll keep the fish out of the water tub. |
Jackie
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 12, 2000 - 12:58 pm: | |
Hi,
I found in some of my notes from a couple years ago about using sodium bicarbonate in water tanks to help keep them clean. I have not tried this because I scrub my tanks once a week. The notes say you can purchase in 50 lb. bags that run $10-$13 a bag but it doesn't say how much to use. Maybe Dr. O has heard of this? I am still trying to find the article that gave the info. but I will keep looking!! { I'm not very organized when it comes to paperwork} p.s. sodium bicarb. is baking soda.
Thanks for jarring my memory, I had forgotten all about this tip!
Jackie |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 13, 2000 - 3:34 am: | |
The primary concern would be the nitrogenous waste and if the fish are alive, the levels would be safe. The fish are more sensitve than the horses. People use bicarb as a mild abrasive when scrubbing but I do not know about adding it directly to the water.
DrO |
Michael S. Bailey
| | Posted on Sunday, Jul 16, 2000 - 12:21 am: | |
Dr. O and Others,
What about snails? I also once kept fish (saltwater), and used snails for algae control.
I am sure there are freshwater snails that could serve the same purpose. They tend to "stick" to the sides of the tank so I would not think swallowing them would be a factor. Just a thought.
Michael Bailey |
Nancy Herbert
| | Posted on Monday, Jul 17, 2000 - 11:20 am: | |
We live in Eastern Oregon and here you can get state supplied goldfish from the Vector Control to put in your water troughs or ponds. They'll even deliver them. Our tax dollars at work. A friend of mine uses them and they seem to help, but nothing beats the old fashioned "dump and scrub".
Nancy |
Elizabeth Anderson
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 19, 2000 - 8:12 am: | |
Wow guys-got to disagree on this. Here in NC, the North Carolina Horse Council's Minimum Stardards of Care for Equines states "Adequate water shall mean clean, potable water available at all times for all equines. Exceptions shall be determined by veterinary consultation or professionally accepted practices for the safety and well-being of the equine." And "All storage and feeding receptacles shall be kept clean and free from contaminants, such as feces, mold, mildew, insects, etc."
To me this means I have 50 gallon pasture tanks which are dumped daily and washed out. Granted, the maximum number of horses we ever had here was nine, but it only took a few more minutes to clean the extra tanks. If you ever look at all the "stuff" that can get in a tank in one day, I would not consider the water as clean unless it was freshened daily. If you have larger tanks, they could be filled half-way so it would be easier to clean.
To me, it seems it would be a health risk to not have clean water. |
Leslie J. Stoll (Larkie)
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 14, 2000 - 10:33 pm: | |
I agree that dumping and scrubbing tanks everyday is ideal, but here in the deserts of Nevada, water is considered "liquid gold" by some and conserving it is a must. I am concerned with algae and contamination of her tank. What are the potential risks to my horse? Are there any? I am presently using the "golfish and skimming" technique. |
Gloria Adams (Penner)
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 19, 2002 - 1:15 pm: | |
To keep algae down, we use about 6 ounces of common household bleach - sodium hypochlorite, in a 70 gallon water tank. Works great!
We just keep adding only water tho to the tank until it seems like it is starting the algae again(about 1 month in the SW USA), then dump the tank, scrub it, & refill it all the way with water (70 gallons) & add the 6 ounces of the bleach.
We have been doing this for 2 years without a problem. |
Ann Schrichte
Member
Username: Annes
Post Number: 45
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Jun 25, 2004 - 11:40 am: | |
I am using Stock Plex in the water tanks again this summer to keep algae under control. The main ingredient is Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate - 19.8%. It calls for 1-2 oz. per 250 gallons water.
Has anyone else used this? I am hoping there is no ill effect as long as it is used as directed. It is not the only water supply for my horses as they also drink from a pond. DrO - do you have any opinion on the use of this product? Thanks. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 10693
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Jun 26, 2004 - 5:47 pm: | |
Hmmm..unlike some other lifestock, horses tolerate quite a bit of Cu in their diet up to 8 gms a day for a thousand lb horse. Hmmm....at 2 oz. of treatment (60 gms x 0.20) that would be appx 12 gms Cu per 250 gallons of water or 5 / 100 or 0.5 gms / 10 gals. 10 gals is a little more than horses drink on average so this is 1 / 16th the toxic dose. I have made some estimates and approximations but where important have always errored on the side to exaggerate the risk. Sounds like you are safe but be aware that if there are other large sources of copper you might have problems and it will be difficult to maintain this exact concentration: when water evaporates, the copper stays behind so you should only apply it when the tub has been dumped.
DrO |
Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler
Post Number: 219
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 11, 2005 - 4:12 pm: | |
I know this is an old post.
I have found that adding a plecostomus to tanks with algae works wonders I only put the pleco in for a day or two depending on the size of the tank and fish. Large pleco's work fast. I found this out with several ponds during start up season I put plecos in and after clean up has occured and water has cylced I added my fish. Thought I would try on water troughs it worked. I use one med to large pleco in a 50 gal tank and the longest it took to clear was 2 days.
I keep show goldfish and have many tanks so I always keep one pleco on hand. All my fish are treated and monitored for parasites. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 563
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 11, 2005 - 5:15 pm: | |
What are "plecostomus?" a type of fish? Other algae controll? Sorry to be so ignorant. If it's a fish, what temps. can it tolerate? I have pretty good luck with regular gold fish. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 688
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 11, 2005 - 6:32 pm: | |
It's a very common catfish, Sara, you can see it in almost every aquarium gliding on the bottom, sucking on pebbles, plants and walls. Think of it as a herbivorous vacuum cleaner.
I think they can tolerate pretty much anything, but Cheryl sounds proficient with them, I am sure she can fill us in with the details. |
Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler
Post Number: 221
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 11, 2005 - 6:35 pm: | |
Plecostomus are a fish sorta archaic looking somewhere between catfish and algae eater. They live off of algae, vegatative mater, and dead mater. You can find them at any fish shop.
They'll suck the green off of anything. I have found they will live almost in anything they don't like cold water, which really isn't a prob in the late spring and summer. |
Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler
Post Number: 222
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 11, 2005 - 6:43 pm: | |
course by cold i mean really cold, they can live in flowing water and still water, I usually house one in my regular tanks so I always have one but they are cheap and my pet store always takes any that I don't want to keep.
Some get large and some stay small. I bought a marble sailfin pleco and it has stayed at about 6 inches long. My regular garden variety got to 9 inches long. I prefer the medium size variety, but if they get to big I just move them on down the road.
When I first get one I salt my tank with 1 teaspoon per gallon of water, I use pickling salt no iodized salt, this gets rid of most parasites after a couple of days I add them to the water troughs. |
Susan Kvale
Member
Username: Scline
Post Number: 22
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 11, 2005 - 7:10 pm: | |
What type of parasites do these fish have? Can you keep them in your water trough all summer or do they have to be removed to an aquarium every now and then? |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 690
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2005 - 8:23 am: | |
Thanks for the info, Cheryl.
Will they be ok with just algae or you have to feed them something else as well? |
Angie Judson
Member
Username: Ajudson1
Post Number: 180
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2005 - 9:18 am: | |
Interesting subject. So how would the fish do with really hard water? I do have some problem with algae, but the hard water crud is what is a pain. Use a paint scraper to clean the tank, figure that's better than chemicals. Of course vinegar eats off the crud, but have to leave it on a long time to get it to work.
Anyone have suggestions to keep the hardwater crud from building up?? Any fishies for that??
Geez, my cats would have a party with fish in the livestock tank. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12556
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2005 - 9:55 am: | |
I have always considered plecostomus a tropical fish (South American I believe) so might not do well when the water temp goes below 70 degrees. Cheryl do your plecos live well at temperatures below this? The main parasite would be "ich" (little white spots) and not a concern for the horses.
DrO |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 566
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2005 - 10:25 am: | |
Oh, I know what you are talking about. I always thought they were some kind of cat fish. I think I'll try a couple in with the gold fish. I didn't realize they could live outside. I've only seen them in inside tanks.
Our goldfish, btw, winter over fine under several inches of ice, but our water tanks are fairly deep. They get quite big, current ones are from 5 to 8 inches long. Everyonce in awhile one disapears. I overfilled one of the tanks and one washed out, and when I first put them in one of the tanks I think a horse drank a couple of them. Maybe a magpie or other bird catches one once in a while. We have a lot of wildlife who seem to think our water tanks are made for their use. Since putting fish in, however, our tanks stay much cleaner. |
Ann
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 488
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2005 - 10:30 am: | |
stupid question here... what about fish poop? does the tank start to smell like a well, fish tank..?
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with SPOTS.. |
CJ
Member
Username: Marroon
Post Number: 27
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2005 - 11:43 am: | |
If not enough algae just throw in some green beans and they gobble them up. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 692
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2005 - 11:46 am: | |
I'll give it a try with these fish, though I think my mouthy yearling will gobble down even the 9-inch ones.
Any idea about palatability of different fish to horses? (that's in order to choose the best, this monster will eat them anyway)  |
Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler
Post Number: 223
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2005 - 5:43 pm: | |
Sorry all been with clients all day.
I usually put them in troughs about mid may in wyoming average outside temp in the sixties, not sure of water temp. My tanks are in constant sun though so probably pretty warm except at night. I have had them in 60 degree water indoors. I haven't left them in the troughs long term but I cycle them between my tanks, troughs, and ponds. My ponds are small so a little harder to control algae. My 6 inch pleco cleaned a 150 gal tank in 2 days. When there is no algae or vegatative matter you can feed them algae waffers or sprirulina flake/waffers or even green peas ( I squish them so they sink) good food for goldfish also. Pleco's kinda clean up after their leavings, so waste from the fish will be minimal not in the profuse amounts of a goldfish. And if your goldfish die well they clean most of that up too.
You can probably do a temp aclimatization with the plecos in a small 5 gal tank or bucket start off at a normal temp around 70 and let the temp drop normally on its own in a cool spot. These buggers are pretty hardy, but you can't just immediatly drop them into cold water they will go into shock.
I never thought of a horse eating a fish but anything is possible. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12562
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 12, 2005 - 11:01 pm: | |
Christos, if you think your horse will have a go at one of these guys I do not suggest it: they have serious spines on the dorsal and pectoral fins they may become lodged in the throat.
DrO |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen
Post Number: 651
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 13, 2005 - 4:00 am: | |
Christos, my friends who had a farm near Corinth used to use potassium permanganate in their water tank mainly for their apricot trees but which was also used for cattle...? We used to swim in this tank and accidentally drink the water, it didn't seem to do anyone any harm but it was a revolting colour.
I can't imagine it was too great for the cattle though. Tasted pretty grotty.
Imogen |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 695
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 13, 2005 - 8:58 am: | |
Oops, thanks, Doctor.
I don't think he'd chew or swallow them, at least not deliberately, but I'm almost sure he'll be chasing them and carrying them around if he can catch them.
I've never heard of potassium permanganate, Imogen. Would it be safe to horses? DrO? |
Cheryl Hohler
Member
Username: Chohler
Post Number: 226
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 13, 2005 - 12:20 pm: | |
In the aquaculture world PPG or potassium permanganate is used to kill parasites, bacteria, and undesireable fish species. It is a Caustic agent. I wear gloves when using this stuff. I believe you might be able to find a MSDS sheet on the stuff. It does time out on its own if there is so much organic debri and waste and not enough chemical. You can neutralize it with water conditioner or hydrogen peroxide or over 50% water change. There are now stricter regulations in place with this chemical because it can be used to make Meth.
It does kill fish, I don't know what it would do to livestock. |
Christine Holmes Bukowski
Member
Username: Canyon28
Post Number: 119
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 13, 2005 - 3:44 pm: | |
the pool skimmer net is one I have been using for several years with good success. I usually use some bleach in the water when it goes way down, while I am scrubbin the tank out. I have also used some bleach in the water in a full tank with no problem, but be sure to mix thoroughly. The problem with using the bleach is that it eventually ends up eating through the galvanized tanks causeing rust spots and eventually pin holes. I have fixed two tanks this year that are approx 7 years old with trailer house patching materials. I used the patching cement only on the outside of the tank, let it dry really well, then covered that with the silver coat water proof top coat suggested for trailer roofs. make sure to follow directions and get it real dry before trying to use again. Both tanks are back in use and holding water with no leaks. One of the tanks is a very large tank about 300 gals or so that I use for my cows. I would not use these materials on the inside of a tank, it could be toxic. In the summer, I usually clean the horse tanks every other time I fill them, sometimes every three times,and I use an old straw broom to clean them with, no stooping! they also have floating donut things you can buy now , I havent tried one of them, but I think I will this summer for the cow tank. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 12573
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 14, 2005 - 6:42 am: | |
Concerning the potassium permanganate, it all has to do with concentration and can be used in aquaculture with fish. In the first aquarium shop I worked in the owner would place a few crystals in the tanks at night once weekly to clarify the water and allow carbon filters to remove it. It works by oxidizing organic material. I cannot speak as to its safety in drinking water and find references to mucosal irritation and toxicity.
DrO |
Janet Schmidt
Member
Username: Sparky
Post Number: 133
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 15, 2005 - 2:31 pm: | |
When treating my gelding for sarcoids we used 35% food grade hydrogen peroxide in the water and my tanks stayed nice and clean. All the other horses drank from the same tanks and had no ill effects. I will have to find the posting on the right proportions. You can purchase it at a hydroponics store. Dr. O had approved the amount - actually saying it would have no effect at all to the horses for the amount used.
Janet |
Janet Schmidt
Member
Username: Sparky
Post Number: 134
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 15, 2005 - 2:34 pm: | |
additive to the water. Various strengths example 1 cup/250ltrs, 2.5 ml/1 gallon, 1.5-2 oz per 100 gal, 10ml/5gal, 12cc/5gal |
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