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Discussion on Adding corn oil to feed

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Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: Quatro

Post Number: 254
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, Mar 27, 2006 - 11:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I am working on trying to keep weight on my old boy. I was told to add corn oil to his diet. He is on Senior Feed ( about 5 lbs day) soaked, with free choice grass hay all day. and alfalfa/timothy at nite. He is just an old skinny boy. Does not act sick at all, will get the runs if i try to give him too much alfalfa. Just wondering how much to add to promote weight gain. I started out with an ounce tonight mixed on his feed, so as not to start out with much. I read the article, and my eyes just started to glaze over trying to figure the calculations, so just wondered what would be helpful. He weighs about 800 lbs.
thanks

suz
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose

Post Number: 1252
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 28, 2006 - 12:21 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Did you read the article: Care of the Horse > Nutrition? There is some good advice there.
I assume he is on a good worming program and his teeth are in good shape?

We are boarding a big old retired endurance horse who is 27. When he arrived he was very thin, and like your horse, alfalfa is just too rich for him. We give him lots of high quality grass hay, plus 5 lbs (weighed dry) of beet pulp, soaked, with 3 lbs. rolled corn. He has put on a lot of weight and looks pretty good now.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15178
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 28, 2006 - 7:22 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

No calculations needed here Susan. Those calculations are for converting carbohydrate calories to fat calories. You just want to add calories to your current diet. So you should just start adding oil till you get the desired results. I would increase slowly, mainly to get him use to the taste, and stop when you get to about a cup per feeding then see if you see improvement in 3 or 4 weeks. I too back Sara's thoughts on beet pulp as another good way to get more calories in a horse, though I don't really like the corn addition. It does not complement the beet pulp imbalances and deficiencies. I would prefer she use Equine Senior so as to boost the protein, phosphorous, and vitamins.
DrO
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose

Post Number: 1253
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 28, 2006 - 9:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I love Equine Senior for older horses, and all my other older horses are on it. However, this horse's owner told me the vet said he shouldn't have it, but to add corn. He also gets a special liquid vitamin/mineral supplement. Should he also get some bran?

Sorry about jumping in here Susan.
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Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: Quatro

Post Number: 255
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 28, 2006 - 10:38 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

No problem Sara, always learn more from others input! I watch animal planet and see them carting off these skinny horses that people are accused of not feeding, and then I look at poor Dusty. We don't know how old he is, over 20 is all the vet could guess. Still the head of the herd, chases them all away from the feed tires. Eats well, just does not seem to utilize all he eats. I have had old dogs like that as well. Will add some beet pulp again and increase the oil. Wanted to know if it was ok to add just an ounce or so to the other horses to maybe help with a shiny coat, and better mane growth. Levi and Clyde both have dry looking, short manes. Poor Levi has hardly any forelock. But they are both rather hefty looking so don't want to increase weight.
thanks
suz
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Liliana Velasco Ariza
Member
Username: Liliana5

Post Number: 61
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 28, 2006 - 2:24 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

With my three blind horses Merlin would not gain weight. He also had mild colic (which they called urine colic) so I wormed him again and it seems to have done the trick. I wormed him on March 19th and he has put weight on already
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15185
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Tuesday, Mar 28, 2006 - 4:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Bran makes a good complement to beet pulp when added in the right proportions as it is high in protein and phosphorous and does contain some vitamins. For recommended amounts see the Beet Pulp subtopic in Care for Horses » Nutrition » Forages for Horses, an Overview.

Unless energy is the only problem with the diet I would not look for it helping with the hair coat alone Susan. Review the whole diet for quality and amount. Oil may be part of the solution but may not be the whole banana.
DrO
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cp
Member
Username: Cpacer

Post Number: 137
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 1:17 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

In the spirit of sharing experiences, my horse started getting too skinny over winter so I added 3 oz of corn oil to his sweet feed twice a day. I think it worked, at least he looks better. This week I cut the oil down to once a day, and may stop all together after this jug out. It's hard to believe such a small amount of corn oil can do that--Does this mean that popcorn is a bad diet-snack after all?!?

It also makes his nose nice and soft (easier to get the crusty molasses off)!
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Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: Quatro

Post Number: 256
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 2:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I just started Dusty on 1 oz of corn oil 2 x day mixed with his senior 3 days ago. I upped it to 2 oz today. I might be imagining things, but I swear he is feeling energetic, runs out of his stall in the am. I caught him running with the other 3 horses this morning, usually he just "pshaws" at those young whipper snappers. Too soon to notice any weight, but I think I will keep it up!
The other boys look reallly good and shiny everywhere else, it is just the manes that seem to lack luster. Maybe there is something i could rub at the base of the tail and mane to help condition it, so they would grow stronger. Any ideas out there?
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Muffi Delaney
Member
Username: Muffi

Post Number: 10
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 5:48 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

one of my boys - a 6 year old 16.2 mixed breed gelding had issues keeping weight on . Not boney just not really filled out along the top line on the back to my Vet's satisfaction. I have been successful with him giving him Rice Bran (Triple Crown powder) mixed with Bermuda Blend pellets.(Lakin Lite) He goes crazy when you give him too much protein, or Molasas additives in feed. The Rice Bran and about 1/2 cup of oil at nite with the pellets seems to have done the trick. But what really helped him I believe was to have his front teeth done - not just Molars. the equine dentist mentioned that is why many horses seem not to be able to absorb their food well enough. it has something to do with the Grinding in the mouth breaking down the food so his body can absorb what it needs. ( I am sure that Dr O can do a better job describing that for me) Well now he is looking awesome - at the end of winter, and the Rice bran makes his hoofs and coat look fantastic! I recommend it. BTW - I use about 2 cups of rice bran in the cold weather (when it gets below freezing here) and now down to about 3/4 cup as the spring in Arizona is warming up to 60 degrees at nite (no blanket weather any more)
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Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: Quatro

Post Number: 257
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 6:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Muffi, what part of arizona do you live in? I used to live in Prescott, before my husband kidnapped me and brought me to Iowa. YIKES!
suz
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15197
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 8:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

That's great guys but energy is not the only thing that becomes scarce in the winter and fats are empty calories. Also look to the protein and vitamins in the winter if the hay or your horse is looking a bit drab.
DrO
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Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: Quatro

Post Number: 258
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 29, 2006 - 10:39 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

anyone have any success with Focus Senior? its supposed to help with utilizing feed?
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Lee
Member
Username: Paul303

Post Number: 600
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 - 1:06 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Susan: I used a product called Focus Weight on a gelding I lost at 38 yrs. old in 2000. It really seemed to help him. He was euthanized at New Bolton after a severe colic. The necropsy showed two large lipomas that had strangulated his intestines. I think now, that it's possible that the periods that he went off his feed may have been due to discomfort from the tumors. However, I must say that there was consistent improvement when we started the Focus Weight.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15207
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 - 7:17 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I stress again everyone will become much less perplexed about feeding if you quit looking at name brands (other than making sure any concentrate you buy is from a respected company) and instead look at ingredients and nutritional information with your good eye on your forage. There are no "food utilization enhancement products" out there that make more than a whit of difference. There is carbohydrates, protein, vitamins, minerals, and fat the rest is pretty much nonsense.

I am definitely pressing my keys too hard, deep breath, let it out slow...deep breath...let it out slow...
DrO
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Lori
Member
Username: Maggienm

Post Number: 126
Registered: 6-2004
Posted on Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 - 8:31 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Susan, I feed several of my horses at least a 1/2 c of oil per day. Because oil is 'empty' calories it won't make them high.
If I ever wondered if the oil helped with the coat condition before I will stop now. I have been shopping for a new horse, brought one home to try out. I had thought that horse looked pretty good until I saw the difference in his coat to my horses coats.
Also, I have used a product called MTG (very smelly)on the mane, tail, in fact the whole coat, it seems to work wonders for dandruff, other skin issues, and while an exterior produst can't help with interior growth, this product also helps to untangle long hair.
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Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: Quatro

Post Number: 259
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 - 8:34 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yokey Dokey - I sure don't need to spend any more money on my horses than I already do. They get good quality hay, senior feed and lots of love. I have seen lots of skinny old men around, so as long as he seems healthy and happy, I won't worry about it. With his occasional heaves, probably being thin is better for him.
suz
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Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert

Post Number: 327
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Thursday, Mar 30, 2006 - 9:17 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey Susan
I think DrO is trying to tell us not to look for "gimmicks", and just look for the key ingredients ... "carbohydrates, proteins, vitamins, minerals, and fats" in a product when trying to help an old guy gain weight. The corn oil certainly is helpful, and beet pulp,too, is really helpful. I know that many older horses have problems maintaining weight, but, don't give up on his diet! Let us know how he does with the additions you are already making ... I hope he does better. Like you, it gives me angst to see, much less own, a skinny horse!
Last year, I had a very old mare who went off her feed and rapidly became very skinny, and all on HA sent suggestions, one of which I kept, and use on another old soul ... it is a very high fat, high protein supplement called "Empower" by Nutreana. I like it because a little bit goes a long way so that I don't have to "overfeed" by volume and still get all the foodstuffs into my old guy. The mare I mentioned had cancer that had metastasized and there was nothing we could do for her, but the Empower is really helping my other old soul! Good luck with your guy! They are so special, aren't they? I still miss my old, grey mare. The farm is not the same without her!
Nancy
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15223
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Sunday, Apr 2, 2006 - 9:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

You did miss my point Susan and the point of all the articles that we have on nutrition. I am not saying allow the horse to remain thin but that corrections need to be made by looking at the nutritional needs and the way the diet meets those needs. The whole focus of our nutritional program is on preventing and correcting thin conditions.
DrO
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Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: Quatro

Post Number: 262
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, Apr 2, 2006 - 10:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

So Sorry to have missed your point. I shall not bother you again.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15237
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Monday, Apr 3, 2006 - 9:53 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I was hoping to correct something you wrote in your previous post: you seem to be saying that I was recommending you live with a thin horse which was not my intention. I ask for your pardon. If I have offended you Susan, I apologize, I did not intend to.
DrO
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Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert

Post Number: 329
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, Apr 3, 2006 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hey Susan
I can tell that you really love that skinny horse, because you are emotional about him! I know, cause I had to ask for help with that skinny mare I mentioned before. I think DrO has to "listen" to a lot of the same thing over and over, though it may be the first time for us ... and, of course, WE are not as dumb as those other guys. At least I know I'm brillant!
Nancy
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Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: Quatro

Post Number: 263
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Tuesday, Apr 4, 2006 - 10:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

So sorry for being sensitive. I guess what I was meaning by not worrying about him being skinny, is he eats good, teeth are fine, wormed on a regular basis, is still bossy and seems healthy, so I won't create things to worry about. My other horses are on the "fat" side. I thought if he had extra weight on, the heaves issue could be harder on a fat horse. I will try to post a picture, and see if he looks overly skinny to others, or if he is just a thin old man. He could be 35 or 20, we don't really know, the vets say he is "over 20". I think I might add 1 more senior feeding to his schedule to increase calories. He would love that!
thanks
suz
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Heidi Magnuson
Member
Username: Heidim

Post Number: 86
Registered: 1-2005
Posted on Wednesday, Apr 5, 2006 - 9:24 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I haven't been a part of this discussion, but wanted to add my two cents about the corn oil. We recently bought an 18-year-old Arab. He arrived pretty skinny, and just didn't look as healthy as he acted. My vet also recommended the corn oil addition. It worked great! Wish I'd known about it earlier, especially for my aged horses with teeth issues. Susan, I'm with Nancy--don't give up on the diet until you've explored the options. It drags me down to look at a skinny animal, too, and I'm sure lots of other horse owners feel the same way.
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