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Sherri Dannenberg
Member
Username: Mszoey
Post Number: 76
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 - 3:50 pm: |   |
We had a draught year so feed sources were slim. I always feed alfalfa for forage, usually 4 or 5th cutting of very nice clean leafy hay. The hay I have right now, is very stemmy, not much leaf. Are we getting any benefits from this? The horses are eating it ok, but I don't see the bloom as usual, which I could expect loss from lack of leaf, but is it sufficient. The horses are on 75%oat/25%corn 6%molasses 2.5 #'s twice daily. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 15349
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 12, 2006 - 6:58 pm: | |
Since we cannot see it Sheri it is hard to evaluate, but as my wife likes to say, it is sure to be better than a snowball. Your stemmy alfalfa may be what many areas think is OK. A picture might help us decide.
Guidelines for nutritional content of alfalfa at various stages is available at Care for Horses » Nutrition » Forages for Horses, an Overview. The most important factor is are these horses on pasture and what is it like?
DrO |
Sherri Dannenberg
Member
Username: Mszoey
Post Number: 77
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 13, 2006 - 11:04 am: | |
My horses are not on pasture they are dry lot. As of yesterday I have added calf manna to their grain. They eat all the hay at each feeding, the hay/stems is a very nice green, and clean. I have never had anything so sparse, my hay has always been very leafy, near dairy quality. None of my mares are in foal or nursing at this time, the stallion is not being used for breeding at this time either. Everything is pretty idol at the moment. I have maybe 30 days of this hay left, than I will be into my usual type of hay. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 15370
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 14, 2006 - 7:29 am: | |
I would not think Calf Manna necessary Sherri, if they are cleaning it up completely I am sure it is providing adequate if not an excess of protein and calcium. There may be a slight drop in energy content so just a touch more grain might be needed to keep them from loosing a little bit of condition.
DrO |
Kathy S. Whaling
Member
Username: Kwhaling
Post Number: 5
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, Apr 23, 2006 - 9:58 am: | |
Dr. O,
My situation is that we are in a club with 50-60 non breeding mature horses on pasture for winter. For the last 12 years since I was in the club during the winter we would throw alfalfa at a ration of 1/3 of a bale per horse in 2-3 300+ acre pastures with some dormant grass that we rotate in. Horses always done fine. Most come out of the winter fat. Planning for the next years feeding the arguement of grass vs alfalfa has reared it's ugly head. Most of the horses are not very active during the winter other than chasing each other around the pasture. A few are old that already need supplements. What would be your recomendation go with grass or stay with alfalfa? We are a fairly low budget club and would have to stay with the small style bales. Kathy |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 15448
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 24, 2006 - 7:21 am: | |
Hello Kathy,
If they all are truly are coming out with a condition of 6 - 7 or greater it indicates you could get by with a less dense nutrient source. Whether you can get by with the grass hay will depend on the quality of the pasture and hay.
If your pastures are not green in the winter the grass hay will need to be excellent to compensate for the protein / energy of most dormant pasture grass. But there are 2 other alternatives:- grass/legume mixture
- as long as there is plenty of forage on the pasture and every horse can get its fair share, perhaps you could cut down the amount of alfalfa
Whatever you do monitor there condition and make changes based on what you observe.
DrO |
Kathy S. Whaling
Member
Username: Kwhaling
Post Number: 6
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Apr 24, 2006 - 8:49 am: | |
It's hard to say how much grass the horses are getting. Probably not the majority of grass. Front Range of Denver is pretty sparse for grass at times. The horses for the most part are coming off fat after the winter on a 1/3 of a bale of small 50-60lb bales. So I would think the grass has to be adding something. We did have three horses founder this winter thats the reason for the new interest in grass hay. Some blame the alfalfa. Others go different directions. The ones that did founder were getting grained often. One has Cushings disease. |
Heidi Wright
Member
Username: Remmi
Post Number: 8
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Jun 18, 2006 - 10:41 am: | |
Dr. O,
I have a 5 year old gelding in moderate work - he is 16.2 hands, 1100 lbs and in perfect condition. I would appreciate your feedback on his diet. I am concerned about Ca:Ph ratio, and wonder if I am overfeeding him supplements?
He is fed about 15 lbs of high quality alfalfa hay per day in three feedings. He is outside in a dry paddock 12 hours per day, and in May-October he is out on grass for 3 of those hours. In the cooler months when they are not turned out on grass, the herd is group fed a fourth feeding of oat straw or grass hay in the paddock. My boarding barn grows all organic crops. They have limited grass hay available, so they save it for the winter months.
I did a recent hay analysis with the following results from first crop hay:
On a dry matter basis:
Crude Protein 15.89%
ADF 33.12%
NDF 43.23%
Calcium 1.11% 5.03g/lb
Phosphorous .25% 1.18g/lb
Magnesium .27% 1.22g/lb
Potassium 2.92% 13.24g/lb
Sulfur .2%
Sugar 7.88%
DE - 1105 cal/lb
TDN 59.47%
He gets 1 lb of Purina Ultium twice per day as a vehicle to mix up his supplements. Purina has indicated I should be feeding up to 10-12 lbs per day, but I do not think that is necessary and worry about too much concentrates in the diet.
His supplements are: Corta Flx powder, 3 oz/day of Zinpro's Select I (multi vitamin/mineral for alfalfa diets), Se/Vit E combo (1 mg Se, 1250 IU E)as I live in the great lakes area and we are Se deficient. I have had him tested for Se levels and he is in the proper range.
I have tried to feed my gelding Gateway's Super Phosphorous at 1 oz /day (1 oz @ 26% Ph) but he rejects his feed despite creative attempts to get him to eat it.
So to get his phosphorous intake up, I have been feeding him a beet pulp/wheat bran mash each night consisting of 8 oz of beet pulp and 8 oz of wheat bran mixed up with alot of water. He eats it readily. That's not a very scientific approach as I have not calculated the amount of phosphorous that is adding to the diet, and I do understand beet pulp is high in calcium as well, but it is sprayed with molasses and it makes the mash more appealing. My horse is a picky eater.
I have also considered skipping the Ultium and feeding a small portion of sweet feed that is sticky, and trying to add the phosphorous to that. Do you think it is harmful to feed 2 lbs of sweet feed per day, such as Buckeye's Grow and Win or Omelene? Would that provide a harmful amount of sugar?
I have read your articles on nutrition, beet pulp, bran, Ca:Ph, etc. and they have all been helpful.
Your feedback would be much appreciated. |
