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Discussion on Constipated 3 week old.. ? or is this normal.. ?

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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 806
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Saturday, Jun 3, 2006 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dr. O , now that my colt is on mom and I am cutting back his foal lac he has started to eat equine jr. feed.. I am only giving him 6-7 cups of it a day.. he has access to alfalfa and grass hay and pasture.. I am noticing him straining to poop.. he is getting small nuggets out but it does not appear to be easy for him... He is my first foal that all this ''stuff'' is happening to.. the others transitioned fine.. What can I give him / feed him or should I do a enema on him.. ? He is passing some , I watched him twice today.. and I am hoping there have been other times he has passed some ..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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barbara
Member
Username: Oscarvv

Post Number: 739
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Sunday, Jun 4, 2006 - 12:53 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi Ann,
I don't know the history of your colt but babies can't digest grain until they are around 3 months of age. Is Equine Junior made for horses as young as your colt? If you feel he needs added nutrition, I'd use one of the milk based pellets.
If he is straining to poop, I would talk to your vet about it, an enema might be warranted.
-B
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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 807
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Monday, Jun 5, 2006 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Barbara I did not know that about grain... the equine jr is a pelleted feed no grain.. all tho that is not to say that he has not sampled his mums grain.. What I did do yesterday is the enema, and am now adding a tablespoon or more of mineral oil to his jr. feed.. He never appeared uncomfortable.. but just was not passing much ...

On the first day God created horses , on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15798
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Monday, Jun 5, 2006 - 1:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Barbara, I don't think it is true foals cannot digest grain prior to 3 months and undigested food causes gas and diarrhea, so I don't think that is the problem. I have seen foals sucessfully weaned off milk based products and onto grain based concentrates by 2 months of age. Chewing is a bit of a problem so pellets are best. However I do agree that the milk based pellets offer the best nutrition.

Ann some amount of straining to defecate is normal so I don't know if you are having an undue amount of problems and if you give an enema (or a dozen), then what? I would not recommend the mineral oil routinely and enemas should be contemplated when he strains and nothing is produced but if you think you have a developing problem, a call to the vet is warranted. Does the foal have free access to water?
DrO
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barbara
Member
Username: Oscarvv

Post Number: 740
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Monday, Jun 5, 2006 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi DrO,

Sorry, can't digest may be the wrong word, can they just not really utilize grain well at that age?
I've heard many times not to feed a foal grain before 3months. Waiting until they are three months to add grain to the diet is what my feed company recommends.

I found this website with some info -


http://www.prognutrition.com/Library113.htm

A common management practice in the past has been to allow nursing foals to eat with their dams. Unfortunately, the foal under two months of age has little ability to digest cereal grains. During the foals first three months of life, their digestive enzymes are more efficient at breaking down and absorbing milk than the starch found in cereal grains (Fig. 1). As the foal ages, their digestive enzymes also change. When the foal is between 3 and 4 months of age, amylase surpasses lactase allowing them to digest cereal grains and their starches.
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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 809
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Monday, Jun 5, 2006 - 5:25 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks Dr. O.. Vet was out today to do routine Legend shots... I had her look at him and asked a ton of questions.. Yes, he has free access to water and he does drink it..

She said once he is off the Foal Lac which will be today.. he takes his last SMZ's , that he should normalize with mums milk and the equine jr feed.. interestingly enough, I guess, either foals will have the runs or not from the supplement milk and with the meds.. This boy chose to harden up some.. He is pooping better today, I think the enema helped him.... Will give him another day of a tablespoon of the mineral and will quit and see what happens.. Thanks for the input re 'some amount of straining' he never really appeared to be uncomfortable, just was unable to get much out..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Karen Nolte
Member
Username: Morg1

Post Number: 103
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 6, 2006 - 8:48 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Barbara, I've read, I believe on this website and in other sources, to feed grain to foals starting in between their first and second month. The article under nutrition, feeding the growing foal claims that feed efficiency is high in foals. I've always tried to get my foals to eat their own grain (I feed Omolene 300 to them) by themselves by 2 months at the latest with no problems. What feed company are you using? That is so interesting I wander why they say that, maybe they know something that we don't.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15807
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 6, 2006 - 8:56 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Karen you are correct. While there is little doubt that milk is preferable, foals are able to efficiently utilize grains in the diet at 3 weeks of age. In one study when fed just fortified grains at this age they can grow at the rate of 1 lb per 4 lbs fed. However simple grains will be deficient in important nutrients, most notably protein, minerals, and vitamins so if used to replace milk should be specifically fortified for foals.
DrO
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barbara
Member
Username: Oscarvv

Post Number: 741
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 6, 2006 - 10:05 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

DrO,

This is interesting.

Is the website I quoted above, for Progressive feeds, incorrect?

Karen,
I feed Buckeye feeds and use their Foal Starter the first three months.

-B
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15815
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 6, 2006 - 2:28 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Unfortunately, the foal under two months of age has little ability to digest cereal grains. is an incorrect statement.
DrO
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barbara
Member
Username: Oscarvv

Post Number: 743
Registered: 10-1999
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 7, 2006 - 11:21 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks DrO - learn something new everyday!
-B
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Linda Sain
Member
Username: Banthony

Post Number: 25
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 7, 2006 - 11:43 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have seen quite a few foals look constipated when they are just getting interested in food. You can see the fiber coming out in their stool. Maybe it takes a little while for their system to adjust to taking in fiber. It doesn't seem to last longer than a week. Have never had one colic at this stage from this.
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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 811
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 7, 2006 - 2:27 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Linda that was a timely post.. I noticed just last night that the colt had some hay pieces in his stool.. He does not appear to be uncomfortable he is getting rid of it.. but sometimes, sorry if this sounds gross, he will poop but not get all of it out and suck back in a nugget.. then hold his tail up high for a few moments.. .. I have been to vigilant with this little guy.. I really need a life.. LOL..

On the first day God created horses on the second day he painted them spots..
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Linda Sain
Member
Username: Banthony

Post Number: 27
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 7, 2006 - 3:00 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Ann,
I know just what you mean. Our little filly got foal heat diarrhea and then didn't clear up for a month and a half. My life revolved around what her temperature was and what her poop looked like. And after all the meds and the time cleaning her and the stall up, I couldn't have been prouder when she finally started making perfect little fecal balls.
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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 812
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Wednesday, Jun 7, 2006 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

LOLOLOLOLOL ... :-) :-) :-)

and this conversation could easily be in a bar amongst other horse fanciers.. !!!

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Shawna
Member
Username: Qh4me

Post Number: 147
Registered: 3-2005
Posted on Thursday, Jun 8, 2006 - 11:00 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Barbara, I noticed you feed buckeye foal starter. How do you like it. I just started using the Buckeye foal starter, and have been feeding my new colt that since he was interested in it, which was about 5 days old.

He is now just over 3 weeks old, and he never got the foal heat diarrhea I was expecting (but I am not complaining either ). I was constantly waiting for it, but this time nothing. His stools got a little loose for a couple of days, but nothing like I am used too with babies. Since this was the first time I had been feeding Buckeye, I was wondering, if the foal starter being fed so early may have helped.

Or do some foals not get diarrhea ?
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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 813
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Thursday, Jun 8, 2006 - 11:23 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Shawna, i have had only one foal in years of foaling out get the ''foal heat'' diarrhea.. and i have never supplemented any of them till this little guy.. Just what ever mom ate they ate too.. I chalked it up to good hygiene before foaling , but i have no proof of that.. clean utters/ areas where foal starts sucking in the beginning.. . I have always had good luck with Purina products as well..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Karen Nolte
Member
Username: Morg1

Post Number: 105
Registered: 4-2005
Posted on Thursday, Jun 8, 2006 - 4:35 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I wish I knew what caused the "foal heat" diarrhea too. I've heard that worms could be a factor. This is my 4th foal for me and the first one that I've had that has gotten the diarrhea. Each of my foals were from different mares and each were wormed at a different stage of pregnancy. This mare in particular was wormed a month ago and again the day she foaled. On two of the mares I wormed 2 weeks prior to foaling and on one 2 months prior.

I love purina feeds too. I doubt that this has anything to do with it, but this is also the first foal that I've had that hasn't started partaking in the mare's grain. All of my other youngsters have shown interest in the grain in the first day or two, even if they couldn't eat more than a nibble. The filly is now 11 days old, I've noticed that she's eating hay, but hasn't paid attention to what mom is eating out of the trough yet.
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 15845
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Thursday, Jun 8, 2006 - 9:50 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Everyone,
I think you will find all your questions answered at, Equine Diseases » Colic and GI Diseases » Diarrhea in Horses » Foal Heat Diarrhea.
DrO
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Margaret Ballntine
New Member
Username: Arisaig

Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2007
Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 2:35 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have two mares, one is 7 years old the other is 16 years old - I took on the raising of a 5 day old foal that was rejected by mother. I am giving him 4 feedings of NutraGro which seems to set with him very well - he has not has runs but now seems constipated - has access to water, is put outside in sun from 10:00 to 4:00 p.m. in his pen with mares eating around him. He seems very alert and is doing all things he should be doing - what can I give him to help with the hard stools?
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 17413
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Friday, Jan 5, 2007 - 6:48 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Margaret,
I want to refer you to Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Feeds, & Feeding » Feeding and Caring for the Orphan Foal. It explains how to feed these guys and you might look for things you are doing different. If the problem persists you should start a new discussion in the forum associated with that article. I would like to know what the NutraGro is and how it is fed and is there any straining?
DrO
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