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Discussion on Casting in stall

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jojo
Member
Username: Jojo15

Post Number: 763
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 12:15 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have no idea if i should put this here. When i tried doing a search on "casting in stall" nothing came up... i know we have talked about this before.

But i have a mini horse, 5 months old casting herself. twice in 2 weeks. I have had a horse for 14 years and not once has she ever done this. So i am a bit worried about the timeframe on my mini...

What problems can come of this? can she die if i don't find her in time? I have only once in all my years with horses had to deal with a truly cast horse. and turning her wasn't pretty.

Will they always turn themselves back over? Can they die from this? Other types of injury? are foals more prone to this? waht else to help this?

The stall is 6x12 for a miniature foal. 35"... at most.

will putting shavings on the sides help?
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Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66

Post Number: 1304
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 12:37 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yes, I've heard to bank the sides high. Can't remember where tho...I do this and my horse loves his "couch"

If they are upside down too long, it is really a very bad thing...

Good luck!!!
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Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos

Post Number: 1208
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 4:10 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Jojo, I think this is a problem with horses who were always free and do not understand how walls work.

Yes, banking the sides high helps a bit.

A bigger stall may also help, if one is available. It will give her some more space while she learns to roll in the middle and avoid the walls.

I don't think being upside down is so bad in itself if the bedding is deep. After all as they wrestle they end up more on their side, not really upside down. The problem is that they get very stressed and may colic and they wrestle quite a bit and hurt their legs against the wall.

I have never heard of a horse being stuck against a wall for hours. They will, eventually, get up.

Be extra careful when helping a stuck horse on its feet. They look very quiet and helpless, but the moment they regain their hooves they often express their frustration with a kick at the wall or whatever else they think is to blame for the situation.
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LL
Member
Username: Frances

Post Number: 269
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 5:43 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Jojo, as well as banking the walls, you can get "anti-casting" strips to attach to them. The strips run all the way around the walls at a suitable height, and I think they give more purchase to the hooves so that they don't slip and scrabble. Anti-casting strips are sold by the companies that produce wall & floor matting. I can find you a link if you don't come up with anything.

Good luck

Lynn
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Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos

Post Number: 1210
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 6:49 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Please, Lynn, post a link if you can, I am very interested in purchasing or constructing something like that as my big gelding is ... how to say this nicely ... not good with walls.

Luckily enough he doesn't roll in his stall, but he managed once to get stuck against the arena wall. He left rather vertical skid marks on the wall in his attempt to push himself away, so I believe these strips would have helped a lot.
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jos
Member
Username: Paardex

Post Number: 110
Registered: 11-2004
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 8:09 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Christos, we had in our 'Corton' boxes in Holland a strip of bangkirai wood at about 40 cm screwed on the walls. It worked wonderful with those 'stupid big boys'.Some of them even used it as a help to get up.The wood was rounded at the sides.
Jojo perhaps you could try the same thing on a lower level for the mini?
Jos
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Ellie Leo
Member
Username: Skye

Post Number: 133
Registered: 5-2000
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 8:40 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Here's one place, everyone:

http://www.horseguardfence.com/pages2k/cat58.html

There's also a discussion of this under
Horseadvice.com » Care for Horses » Management & Procedures » Particular Situations & Procedure topics not covered by above »

Discussion on Prevent casting in stall
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Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos

Post Number: 1211
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 9:23 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks a lot, Jos and Ellie,

See, this is what one gets for staying away from HA.

I was struggling to keep this elephant of mine off the walls while this discussion about anti-casting strips was taking place in January, but I was not on-line to see it .

Thank God, he never rolled in the stall (the straw was banked so high that I don't think he could roll, even if he tried) .
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Charlayne Penrose
Member
Username: Image

Post Number: 14
Registered: 6-2006
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 10:20 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Wow, I haven't had one cast in years. Thank God! (knocking on wood here) We bank our stalls and the walls are 2x8 boards that are nailed horizontally. We left them so the boards flex a little with pressure. Not enough to stick a foot through but enough to give them an edge to push against. I am not sure if we are just very lucky or if the mares just stay away from the walls due to the banking. I figure it doesn't matter, as long as it works! (we built the barn 10 years ago...so far, so good)

Eons ago (when I was young) I had an App gelding who cast himself in a stall. He apparently rolled so close to the wall, his withers were wedged in the bedding and his legs folded close to him, partially up the wall. He was soaked with sweat by the time we found him and was exhausted. The safer (having to flip any cast horse scares me and I am not sure there is a perfect way to do it) way to flip a cast horse is to get a COTTON rope (I prefer 2 long cotton ropes) and carefully approach the back of the horse while talking gently to him. Loop the rope around the front (and hind, if you are working with 2 ropes) leg. Be very careful to stay out of range...they are usually panicked and kick out trying to escape. Take the end of the rope, stand as far back as you can and gently pull until he flips towards you. Stay out of the way cause they sometimes come up fighting mad. My App was so exhausted he just lay there for a couple minutes. He was colicking when he got up. The vet said he must have been stuck for "quite a while". He scared us pretty badly with the colic he had and we thought we would lose him. He did pull out of it and by some miracle, he didn't founder even though I know his legs couldn't have been getting much circulation. For all I know, he was colicking before he was cast and that may be how he ended up stuck in the first place. (he had a history of colic and even though he was fine that morning, he could have gotten sick after I had left for school.) I was young but I sure learned alot that day!

Sorry the post is so long. I just thought I would throw out the idea for flipping a cast horse back over. If anyone has a better, safer way, please let me know. I know techniques change but that is the way we did it "back then".

Take care!
Charlayne
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jojo
Member
Username: Jojo15

Post Number: 764
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 11:09 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I checked on my mini forums, and the size of the stall is sufficient for her size. Leaving her out was a fleeting thought, but i live near canals and ponds, gators, etc... I just wonder if this is something they must learn not to do. If this happens a third time, will take out the partition in the middle of the stall.

Here is a link to some pics of her in the stall..

http://jojosfarmlife.blogspot.com/2006/06/kiwis-here.html

will look into anti casting stuff. her stall is horizontal boards tight together. Hopefully, you're right christos that they can eventually turn back over. In all my years i have only had to undo one horse the way charlayne describes, and i was the one that went into the stall, this horse wedged its foot in the board he kicked thru, in his attempt to roll back over. We ended up creating a hoist, 3 men and me trying to get this horse free...

I hope this doesn't prove a stupid gene... she has been such a smart girl up till this dilemma.
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose

Post Number: 1572
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 11:14 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

jojo - a cast horse is scary. They often get so frantic. The only one I ever had to get up (alone!) was a warmblood. Quite a task. If your girl keeps casting herself, I'd suggest getting her one of those "anti-roll" devices that are on a surcingle. They work good. For a little horse she seems to have plenty of room. Wonder why she is doing this?
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose

Post Number: 1573
Registered: 1-2000
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 11:16 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

btw - she sure is cute! ALMOST makes me want to run out and buy a mini!
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Ann
Member
Username: Dres

Post Number: 875
Registered: 10-2000
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 12:31 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Jojo, this is off your topic... went to your blog.. and oh what a Q-T.. I have to ask, what do you do with Mini's.. ??? I know there are several spotted Mini breeders...

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Angie
Member
Username: Ajudson1

Post Number: 607
Registered: 6-2003
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 1:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Do horses have stupid genes? hmmm....interesting.

This discussion reminded me of what happened to a horse some friends of ours owned. The horses were grazing in a field with round bales and one of the horses got between them and instead of backing out, flipped over and ended up upside down. The horses were kept a few miles from the house and checked on a few times a week. It wasn't unusual to not see them all, so it was some time before they decided to see why the horse wasn't coming in. By the time they found him it was too late.

Such a cutie btw!! It's almost hard to believe such a little thing could get cast like you are describing. Hopefully she will wise up soon.
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Katrina
Member
Username: Kthorse

Post Number: 532
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 2:04 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Angie that reminds me of a similar thing. A few years back one of the horses was rolling next to a round bail. I was talking to someone we looked over she had 4 feet up in the air. We laughed than kept on talking. 5 or more minutes later we glanced up she was till there. It looked so funny. By the time we walked up the hill another 5 mins to her she got herself down. It was the first time I saw a cast horse in a paddock. My horse has gotten stuck on top of a round bail itching his stomach. Don't ask me how he gets on top of it. I don't know. I just have to have a good laugh watching him try to get off it.
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Melissa Boschwitz
Member
Username: Amara

Post Number: 140
Registered: 7-2000
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 3:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

a cast horse of any size is no fun jojo....i've used the anti-casting surcingles with good success... i've had less success with the high bedding on the sides, as some horses paw at high bedding and can evenpaw at it in such a way as to make a "spot" that they can get stuck in, with the wall on one side and the bedding on the other...
if a horse is down for a long period of time and does not move around can potentially cause pulmonary problems.. a horse's heart is not strong enough to keep the blood moving sufficiently if the horse lies on its side for a long period of time.. eventually the blood can pool in the lower lung and in extreme circumstances i have heard it can cause a horse to suffocate, tho i have never had a horse ever come anywhere near to this... usually most cast horses will eventually panic themselves to the point that they find some way to brace their feet against the wall and get themselves up...
i have had the worst experiences with horses that get themselves caught up under fences, as then they can really hurt themselves getting themselves out from under a fence..

as to why your mini does it, it is very common for a horse to find a sense of "safety" against a large object...its called "reflexive brace" and its where a horse leans into a large barrier or animal...(including human).. its an instinctive response that makes the horse seek shelter in certain types of weather... in domestic situations it can take on certain abnormal functions... in a larger stall she'll probably do the same thing... eventually she'll probably teach herself when and where to lie down.. in the meantime anti-casting devices can help...
good luck.. i dont know how many times i nearly got myself banged up trying to help a horse who was cast under a fence...
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LL
Member
Username: Frances

Post Number: 271
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 4:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Sorry Christo, bit too late logging on to post a link for you - it'd already been done!
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jojo
Member
Username: Jojo15

Post Number: 765
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 4:41 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Melissa, that puts perspective as to "why" i think she might be doing it. Helps Greatly. When i had purchased her i didn't want to do any of the abrupt weaning. But owner did anyway. I wonder if this might have something to do with reflexive bracing. I know weaning is such a sensitive thing with so many other species of animals. abundance weaning to me is the way to go. why not with horses too. Not saying this is a cause of it. She won't come running to me, but once in my space she is a lover, leaning and letting me hug on her. She is so very young, Sometimes i have go hey she is only 5 months old.

Like i said earlier joking, it could be the stupid gene... which translates into horse being a horse... A trainer once told me the best horse in the world is one that knows self preservation, won't just blindly run from something and in the interim kill herself in the process. (or cast herself once in the stall and learn from it).... I understood what she meant the first time my brandy tried to save us both from an episode. She could have taken off and been stupid, but she had me on her back, and acted accordingly. Big light bulb moment.

My little kiwi is showing signs of smart like that... I hope...

Ann, this is my first mini. I watched her being born, I helped imprint her. Then i didn't think anything of it till the owner called me and asked if i wanted her...i bought her not knowing what to do with her. And really haven't a goal. She and my mare brandy look exactly alike... It really is cute.

For tonight, i put a bit of vetwrap on the lower boards.. might have some added traction.
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Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos

Post Number: 1212
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 4:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Thanks anyway, Lynn, for mentioning these strips in the first place.
And, of course, many thanks to everybody else for sharing info and experiences.
Flow of information is really amazing in this site.
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Wanda Martinez
Member
Username: Sonoita

Post Number: 43
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 5:07 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I have seen horses banging there heads when cast that is not very pretty either. It was a reining horse, he tore his head up good. And I think it gave him some damage too. He was never the same horse after that. Before he always loaded great and after he would not load. He even kicked the butt bar so hard he broke it and then it impaled him. He did have to be put down after he would not load and was not any good at being a reining horse anymore. it was so sad. I hope you can find the answer soon so you do not have to worry about it happening all the time.


Happy Trails
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Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne

Post Number: 453
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 6:56 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

She is darling! I am such a sucker for grey horses...let alone cute little ones with such adorable faces. Good Luck finding a solution.

Corinne
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 16215
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 7:34 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Joj, I put in the words "cast" and "stall" selected AND as the keyword option WHOLE WORDS ONLY as the match option and got 47 responses, including this one. Using the PART OF WORDS option I got over a hundred but they were not as focused.
DrO
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jojo
Member
Username: Jojo15

Post Number: 768
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Sunday, Jul 23, 2006 - 8:14 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

i put in "Casting in stall" and "cast in stall" and got 9. none of which were right... so what i did was not include AND? i've done this a few times not finding the forum i knew was there... barbaro was one of them...
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 16226
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 8:47 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

You don't type the word AND jojo, it is one of the modifiers you select that makes a search more specific. It sets all words must be in the discussion, while OR means just one of the words needs to be in a discussion. I can find Barbaro and dozens of references to cast, casting, and stall jojo. For instance using the above input this discussion comes up as number one and the number two link is Care for Horses » Management & Procedures » Particular Situations & Procedure topics not covered by above » Discussion on Prevent casting in stall. Is this what you were looking for? Are you using the engine specifically designed for discussions?
DrO
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Linda S.
Member
Username: Banthony

Post Number: 101
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 9:30 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

We have a yearling colt that has repeatedly cast himself in the pasture against the fence. We have found him twice straight up-side-down very snug against the fence. And once someone driving down the road saw him cast and came and banged on our door.

He always skins himself up doing this. But so far has not gotten seriously hurt.
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jojo
Member
Username: Jojo15

Post Number: 769
Registered: 12-2003
Posted on Monday, Jul 24, 2006 - 9:42 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

HA.... i've been doing it all wrong.... I didn't even read further down to the discussion search feature. I'm on a little laptop... oy... what a goober.


When i put her up last night i watched her lay down and rub and therby move herself almost up to the side... and then walked away to see what would happen next. She was still there a few minutes later, so she is doing this on purpose. When i yelled she rushed to get up. rocked herself back and forth and did... But i found this whole thing odd. I did just worm her (this time the stupid gene is mine) because i have a feeling this is all stemming from being wormy.. And all this rubbing and laying and such is her trying to get relief...

corinne, bad color photos. She is a really lite palomino with some appy spots on her... grin... same with my older mare. Both really lite lite palo colors...
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Lee
Member
Username: Paul303

Post Number: 689
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 25, 2006 - 12:50 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

I was caring for an old roping horse ( 35++ )that was casting himself in his stall ( that was OPEN to his paddock all the time ). We just cut up a rubber mat in strips and screwed it to the stall walls. It worked. Either that, or he quit rolling.

This horse also used to find small cedar trees that he would sidepass over....then rock back and forth to scratch his stomach. Dumb animals?? I don't think so!
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Michelle Atkeisson
Member
Username: cmatexas

Post Number: 118
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Thursday, Mar 11, 2010 - 4:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

How far from the bottom/top should we put rubber strips to prevent casting? I've never had one cast, thank God, but our new yearling is a pistol, and very capable of doing it!!

Will horses learn how "not" to cast themselves? Our stalls are twice as long as they are wide. Will they take advantage of that? I've never seen him lay down ever except to roll when I pull blankets, but I know he does at night in his stall because he gets poop stains on his face!
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro

Post Number: 24582
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Friday, Mar 12, 2010 - 6:09 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Michelle, the vast majority of horses go through there whole life without getting themselves cast. Following the simple recommendations above should be plenty without installing casting strips will get you by unless you have a horse with a extreme propensity to lay down and roll in the stall.
DrO
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