Use the navigation bar above to access articles and more discussions on this topic.
| Author |
Message |
    
Christine C. Mills (Chrism)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 27, 2001 - 11:58 am: |   |
Dr. O. and HA friends -
There is a growing sentiment in the small animal world that many animals are being vaccinated too often and it is causing assorted health problems.
Many small animal owners are starting to have blood titers drawn and sent for analysis - based on the results, a specific vaccine may be administered if antibodies are not shown to be up to snuff on the titer readings.
Is this a growing trend? Is it more healthy for the animal to do this? What are the health risks of "routinely" vaccinating without titering - are they real or imagined?
Also, many vaccinations are "combined" - is it better to split out the vaccines for one disease at a time?
I keep seeing this in various sites, etc. and was wondering what the real scoop is.
Thanks. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2001 - 8:41 am: | |
Hello Christine,
This is a fact:
many of the small animal vaccines, but not all, are much better than a years worth of protection and should be given less frequently, particularly to middle age adults.
I had not heard of the practice of running titers and have two concerns:
1) If you are going to run the cost of titers, why not just vaccinate? It is cheaper and I am not sure the increase risk of vaccine induced tumors is a truthful argument.
2) Titers may not correlate with protection, there are many cases (take EPM for instance from the horse world) where this is not true.
I really do not know what research is available for addressing this concerns.
Trying to change the veterinary world is like turning the Titanic: it happens very slowly. The chief problem is that for too long the veterinary community has built into the price of vaccination his operating costs while giving away medical procedures and surgery. Before we can get too critical of the high cost of vaccination look at what it has provided: "a kind of socialized medicine". On the back of pricey vaccination procedures and schedules he was able to provide relatively inexpensive advanced veterinary medical procedures to just about everyone. But as inevitably happens to "artifical systems" the world turns the system cannot adapt and so a revolution is in the making. In the long run: vaccination costs and schedules must reflect their true value as do the costs of other veterinary procedures.
So now the question for us is how should this effect us in the horse world? We have more the opposite problem at this time: lots of vaccines with, at very best, questionable efficacy. I will continue to put the latest information on these facts on equine vaccines in our vaccination article to try and keep y'all up to date.
DrO |
Christine C. Mills (Chrism)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2001 - 10:16 am: | |
Thanks for the perspective, Dr. O.
Just to comment briefly - I wasn't considering or complaining about the cost of anything. Vet care is still a bargain in my book. I'm often surprised at how little a procedure or emergency care costs. I do smile a bit as the horse's and the dog's bills are about the same - somewhere in my warped sense of "value" I would have expected the horse to cost more as she is a call out and bigger, GRIN. But maybe the dog is subsidizing the horse.
I am always amazed at the value I receive - in spite of having all sorts of equipment and meds available, a large office with convenient hours and staff, and a vet that is very caring and readily accessible.
My thoughts and basis for the questions were truly grounded in what is evolving to be best for the overall health and well being of the animals.
Thanks for the perspective.
Chris
P.S. The Horseman's Advisor is a bargain in my book, too. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2001 - 7:36 pm: | |
Thanks for the kudos Chris,
I didn't take it like you were complaining at all, I know you better. I am the one complaining. I think the vet community is 5 years behind the ball on this.
DrO |
josephine milano (Jojo15)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2001 - 10:11 pm: | |
Trying to find a small animal vet who will take your dog or cat without proof of yearly vaccines is impossible. All my animals are vaccinated based only on what I want and not dictated to. It has caused many problems trying to get my dogs or cats seen by a new vet. Why is this?
All my animals are healthy, happy and DON'T get vaccinated on a yearly basis. My one dog is three years past her "range" of living yet still acts like a pup. Same with one of my cats. She's going on 18 and still runs around the house like she's a kitten. I STRONGLY believe its by not just vaccinating, " for the good of the animal" when I believe it is just the opposite. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 1, 2001 - 10:44 am: | |
My biggest concern with the dogs is the parvo vaccines Josephine. It has an efficacy that research currently indicates is slightly less than 2 years: this is one you may want to reconsider as Parvo is endemic just about everywhere.
An important reason for requiring vaccination of regular patients is not just for their own protection but also that other patients coming into the practice are not as likely to be exposed to infectious diseases. I suspect some of the reason is also: he cannot afford to see animals not vaccinated because the rest of his fee schedule will not support him.
One day science may dictate vaccination schedules Josephine but you will be paying much higer rates for other services: vets have to eat and I don't know many that are wealthy.
DrO |
josephine milano (Jojo15)
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 3, 2001 - 11:33 pm: | |
You're right now that you put it this way... I understand the concept of business and that "bottom line" necessary for survival, even success. but isn't the issue also, about the animal and its health? Isn't the question of whether or not some vaccines are necessary or even beneficial to the animal more important? The pharmaceutical industry is getting so aggressive even doctors don't know what to prescribe anymore. where do kickback's come in during the hippocratic oath?
Yes, I do agree but disagree. To bring this around to horses, I do the necessary vaccinations, (strangles particularily) when i get my coggins test every spring. but i haven't read the kind of articles to sway me about vaccines regarding horses, as I have with the dogs and how most are unnecessary, or even detrimental to them. (have to reread on Parvo )
Do you think the horse industry is turning towards this? Where one day we as horse owners are limited to our say in what happens?
Oooh should we discuss socialized medicine, too? Just joking. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 4, 2001 - 11:52 am: | |
It is not that these dog/cat vaccines are unneccassary Josephine, these are common and serious diseases and the vaccines protect with minimal untoward effects. The question is whether the frequency could be less often than yearly for the life of the animal. The answer in some but not all cases is yes.
Concerning horse vaccines, why do you consider Strangles neccassary: it is not part of what I consider the critical vaccines (see the article on vaccinations for this and other vaccine information). I do recommend it to clients who are going to areas of known recent infection. The result is we have almost no Strangles in my practice with the ocassional case brought in from the outside.
DrO |
josephine milano (Jojo15)
| | Posted on Sunday, Mar 4, 2001 - 2:28 pm: | |
Thanks for the honesty. when i mean unnecessary, I don't mean I would never vaccinate, just not at the schedule most vets tell you to. I know I am a small percentage to argue this.
Regarding Strangles, we had an outbreak down here last year a with a few barns, before anyone realized and called the vet to help control it. Any horse getting the sniffles now creates big concern. |
Risk
Member
Username: risker
Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2007
| | Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 10:28 am: | |
Dr. O - I have a horse that our Vet vaccinated three times for Rhino, Rabies, Equine/Bovine/Caprine, E,W Encephalomyelitis, Flu, and Tetanus within a period of 4 months. The horse was vaccinated at 2yo, then again a month later in combination with a small injury the Vet attended, then again 2 mos later when the Vet was called for a totally different horse. I was not present when the Vet attended the horse, or I would have stopped the 3rd vaccination. Can you tell me why a Vet would administer all these vaccines in such a short period other than for profit? The horse did not show adverse reaction, but we still question ill consequences. Thank you. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 20213
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 8, 2008 - 9:39 am: | |
Hello Risk,
Please repost this in a new discussion rather than at the end of another members discussion. This is a good area for your post so just click on the parent link on the navigation bar at the top of this page, go to the bottom of that page and you will find the "Start New Discussion" button. |
