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Tamara
Member
Username: Winger
Post Number: 31
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, Sep 9, 2006 - 4:39 pm: |   |
I am wondering if Vita Stress,or Calf Manna has a calming effect on nervous horses because of the B vitamins and Thiamine. thanks |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 1364
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Sep 9, 2006 - 6:52 pm: | |
No, Tamara, you can't calm a horse down by supplementing vitamins.
You may correct a deficiency, should one exist, and make the horse fresher and jumpier, but not calmer. |
Tamara
Member
Username: Winger
Post Number: 32
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, Sep 9, 2006 - 7:03 pm: | |
thank-you |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1406
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Sep 9, 2006 - 11:53 pm: | |
Tamara, you could have your vet do some blood tests...while rare, my horse did have a magnesium deficiency and a supplement helped tremendously. Depending on where you are, you might also check the selenium level. |
CherylA
Member
Username: Canderso
Post Number: 295
Registered: 3-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 10, 2006 - 6:19 am: | |
But you sometimes can calm them with herbs. Valerian sometimes works... if you can get it. (and if you trust the supplier) |
Pamela Towne
Member
Username: Fototrop
Post Number: 38
Registered: 7-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 10, 2006 - 9:13 am: | |
What about Quiessence? It says that it calms and they seem to have a lot of testimonials. Would a magnesium deficiency be that common?
Pam |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 1409
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 10, 2006 - 2:50 pm: | |
I'm under the impression that a magnesium deficiency is pretty rare. I do use Quiessence. It helped to get my horse back to normal within 6 months. He was very tense and would have muscle spasms at times. |
Tamara
Member
Username: Winger
Post Number: 33
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 10, 2006 - 8:04 pm: | |
Thanks for the advice! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16569
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 11, 2006 - 7:44 am: | |
Naturally occurring magnesium deficiencies are unreported in horses on adequate amounts of forage and without preexisting gi disease, particularly diarrhea in combination with inappetance. Neither have I had seen much support for the herbal/vitamin/mineral calming pastes that my clients have tried.
DrO |
Dawson
Member
Username: Dawson
Post Number: 31
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 11, 2006 - 3:37 pm: | |
I put the herbal remedies to make a horse calm or quieter in the same category I would put the herbal remedies that promise to make me loose 10 pounds as long as I follow a healthy low cal diet in addition to the herbal pill for $19.95.
On one very frustrating day I was lucky enough to bump into a gentleman formerly from the Spanish Riding school in Vienna, and we discussed these "calming pastes and herbal sedatives." I told him about this young stallion of mine who preferred to walk on his hind legs, danced around and never listened.
His response to me was ... give him the twelve dollars, now go home and lunge my horse! If he's not calm under saddle then I have not done my ground work correctly so start again! Sad to say he was very right. Yes, some horses to get hyp'd under saddle or certain situations but if you've done your homework you have given him a trigger or signal that tells him, "you need to calm and listen." I make a popping noise with my lips. I do not cluck because most horse people use this to get a horse to go forward, whereas I am telling him he needs to listen for the next command or signal. |
Dede
Member
Username: Aewheele
Post Number: 71
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 11, 2006 - 4:12 pm: | |
I recently met a woman who states that giving her horse sweet feeds or corn makes him "hot". He's half TB, and the owner feels that these types of feed make him more skittish. Has anyone heard of certain foods making horses more or less calm? Is a "sugar rush" as described with children's behavior applicable to horse behavior? |
timothy miller
Member
Username: Tpmiller
Post Number: 45
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 11, 2006 - 5:33 pm: | |
Good hay, grass, fiber and exercise.
Have an Arab mare currently in peak condition to compete long distances, she's fed three times daily and on pasture 24/7. She gets no more than a total of 1 lb. of grain per day supplemented with 6-8 pounds of a fiber feed.
She gets additional supplement of Vit E, slightly over 2200 IU daily.
She lost virtually no weight in back to back 50 mile competitions end of July. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16581
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 6:52 am: | |
Tom and Dawson, ohhhhh....how I love the sweet sweet smell of common sense.
Dede there is little doubt horses when fed heavily gain in energy level and this translates into a more active / reactive horse. Some say it is the protein, some say the sugars, but I suspect the form of energy does not matter that much. That said, some experiments suggest fat as a source of energy may have the lowest level of mental effect.
DrO |
Linda S.
Member
Username: Banthony
Post Number: 156
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 10:01 am: | |
We have fed Quietex to horses that had to be stall rested due to injury. It did seem to help for awhile, but the effect lessens with time and after a couple of weeks it seems to have no effect. |
Shawna
Member
Username: Qh4me
Post Number: 191
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 12, 2006 - 3:23 pm: | |
I don't usually agree that supplements are needed for calming effects either, but this past weekend, we took out 4 month old colt to the Breeders Futurity. He has been very calm and behaved at home, but when we took him up there, he was an absolute mad man. He was trying to come out over his stall, kicking, rearing and very studdy. He was wantingn to breed anything with 2 or 4 legs. Since he was only 4 months, the opportunity to take him out and cool him down on the end of a lungeline was not an option.
One of the other trainers came over and said, you better go over and visit the Omega Alpha sales guy and give that little guy some "Chill". I was skeptical, but thought it was worth a shot.
He gave me a sample bottle and I administered 50 CC's to him and within about 1/2 hour, he was totally calmed down and relaxed. We ended up giving it to him all weekend just to take the jitters off of him.
If I wouldn't have used it myself, i wouldn't have believed it would calm him the way it did.
I have used their other products with much success too, Sinew-X for my old dog, and my older horse with Arthritis and have had tremendous success.
http://www.macleod-equine.com/products.html |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16589
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Sep 13, 2006 - 6:28 am: | |
The question is not so much whether it is needed but whether any of these products are actually effective and if so are they toxic? After all we are talking about pharmocologically sedating the central nervous system. Checking their site Shawna I found the Chill contains:- Passion Flower
- Chamomile
- Hops
- St. John's Wort
- Zizyphus Jujube
- Biota Orientalis
and the Sinex:- D-Glucosamine Sulphate
- MSM (Methyl Sulphonyl Methane)
- Notopterygium Incisum
- Ledeboutielle Divaricata
- Gentiana Macrophylla
I cannot find the amount of each listed anywhere on the site you provide Shawna, nor what the solute consists of. Are they listed on your containers? If so I would like to know what it is. Thanks,
DrO |
Shawna
Member
Username: Qh4me
Post Number: 192
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 5:02 pm: | |
I will check on the containers tonight Dr. O and let you know.
I can speak from experience that these products are effective...now I hope they aren't toxic.  |
cher mcallister
Member
Username: Choney
Post Number: 31
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 14, 2006 - 10:25 pm: | |
So very many of the expensive equine products offered for sale have no information- or scant- on their ingredients, and no hard evidence they work. But, boy, their advertising departments sure know how to work it! It's difficult not to want to try something that sounds soo good- a cure-all!
I am actually glad my gal with her gazillion medical problems is really over-the-hill, as my concern with giving her an unknown entity- in unknown quantity- may cause her aging organs great harm. Probably saves me quite a few hard-earned bucks.
Dr. O, your evidence-based practice is refreshing. |
Nancy E. Hodges
New Member
Username: Kg6hdp
Post Number: 5
Registered: 8-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, Sep 16, 2006 - 11:42 pm: | |
St. John's Wort can cause photosensitivity in some people and in livestock (including horses) and is not recommended internally for all livestock.
Chamomile is okay for horses. One could get the dried flowers in bulk and sprinkle a handful on the feed.
Hops are okay for people, but I don't know if I'd feed it to horses. Inhaling it (hops pillow) works as well as drinking hops tea. I've heard of people giving beer to horses, so maybe hops are okay.
Some people swear by Bachs Flower Rescue Remedy. I think the dose for horses is ten drops. I have used it myself with good results (on a mule, on a donkey, and on myself). I don't know if it's the placebo effect or not...
For something chemical, Modipher EQ Equine Appeasing Pheromone supposedly reduces fear-related stress while not affecting motor skills.
Nancy |
