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Patricia Bell
Member
Username: Boomer
Post Number: 139
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 12, 2006 - 12:55 pm: |   |
I just read that pelleted feed was bad. I feed Safechoice to my filly and my two TB's in the winter months...should I change to something like plain oats or something? I always heard that Safechoice was good because it's lower in carbohydrates that other feeds.. |
Shirley A. Johnson
Member
Username: Shirl
Post Number: 406
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 12, 2006 - 1:22 pm: | |
Patricia,
"Bad" in what way? If you want to feed something pelleted that has no molasses, Mountain Sunrise has several different varieties; bermuda/alfalfa, all burmuda, timothy, etc. Visit their web site Mountainsunrise.com. If feed the all bermuda to keep my "air fern Arab" from getting too fat and hopefully keep her from becoming Insulin Resistant. I've had experience with that and don't need any more.
Shirley |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 1509
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 12, 2006 - 1:27 pm: | |
Where did you read that, Patricia? From my experience, I'll have to disagree with the author of that statement. |
Patricia Bell
Member
Username: Boomer
Post Number: 141
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 12, 2006 - 1:57 pm: | |
I googled "pelleted feeds" and it was like one of the top 3 that came up. If you can't find it I'll go back and get the web address so you can read it. Do you think that sweet feed can cause cushings? Isn't cushings insulin resistant? |
Shirley A. Johnson
Member
Username: Shirl
Post Number: 407
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 12, 2006 - 2:07 pm: | |
Patricia,
Very confusing topics, but look under Diseases of Horses, Endocrine Disorders for very good explanations. I can't say Sweet Feeds cause these things, but some horses are more prone than others, such as "easy keepers". In my horse's case, the sweet feeds just aren't necessary. Pelleted feeds are different than sweet feeds in my opinion. Most pelleted feeds contain other vitamins, minerals, etc. while sweet feeds contain lots of molasses, corn, oats, etc. Again, check the site mentioned, and I'm sure Dr. O will chime in here also.
Cheers,
Shirl |
Fran C
Member
Username: Canter
Post Number: 687
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 12, 2006 - 4:24 pm: | |
I have to say "ditto" to Holly's post (and actually, to Shirley's as well). I've not had any issues with pelleted feed, nor have I seen any problems in other horses at the barn. Choose a high quality, well balanced feed and unless there's an underlying issue, a horse should have no problems with it. |
lynne ashforth
Member
Username: Lynnea
Post Number: 130
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 13, 2006 - 3:12 am: | |
I feed Mountain Sunrise timothy pellets to my 28 year old Morgan...they are wetted down to soften them as he has hardly any molars with which to chew. He can have no hay as he cannot chew it properly and the pellets have worked wonderfully for him. He gets Nutrena Senior and Platinum Performance and has been in great weight and feeling quite good...he is also a cushing horse on pergolide. He is the only horse I have on pellets right now, but I have not seen any reason not to use them. They are the 1/4 inch pellets which are easy to eat when wetted. The only thing I have heard about pellets is that some fast eaters could choke on them, and I would be careful to choose a reputable company that carries them. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16839
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 13, 2006 - 6:37 am: | |
Hello All,
These topics are not that confusing really but let's start with the initial question.
There is nothing wrong with pelleted feeds though any food can be fed incorrectly. Pelleted feeds offer several advantages over grain alone or sweet feeds. The main advantage is that specific nutrients can be more easily tailored to meet a specific horses optimal needs. For understanding proper feeding see Care for Horses » Nutrition » Equine Nutrition an Overview of Feeding Horse.
Concerning understanding the role of feeds in the development of insulin resistance you first must understand that there are 2 very different conditions both of which have insulin resistance as part of their pathogenesis. One is Cushings which is due to a tumor in the brain and the other is Equine Metabolic Syndrome which are related to obesity and lack of exercise. For more on both of these conditions see, Diseases of Horses » Endocrine Disorders.
DrO |
NANCY FORTENBERRY
Member
Username: Keys
Post Number: 26
Registered: 5-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 11:58 am: | |
I've been a member here for over 4 years I think...and I have gleaned a lot of great info. here. I read all the articles and yet, I am always wondering if I feed correctly. At present, I am feeding my 4 & 6 year old geldings that do nothing but play around in their pasture (bad for grazing) a mix of 3/8 pellets and 5/8 sweet feed (12% protein each). I also add a hoof supplement. They are given top notch coastal hay also with a trace mineral salt block in their pasture. They are both very healthy and shiny boys. (Paint horses) However, when the weather gets colder, I do add small amounts of Alfalfa cubes. I just keep an eye on them and regulate their feed according to the weather or stress levels. I just wonder if I have been lucky, or if I am doing things right? |
Angie
Member
Username: Ajudson1
Post Number: 839
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 24, 2006 - 6:37 pm: | |
Nancy,
Sounds good to me!!
I mix SafeChoice Pellets with XTN sweet feed. 3 parts SC to 1 part XTN. Only reason I mix it is because 2 horses seemed to "choke" a little on the straight pellets. I currently feed a total, for 4 horses, of 2 cans sweet, 6 cans of pellets. I use a 13 oz coffee can. By measure, 2 cans of the pellets = 1 can of the sweet feed. I counted the number of cans full I got out of each bag when I switched to these feeds.
Normally our hay is alfalfa, timothy, grass mixed, this year it is poor quality, lucky you having good hay.
Just curious, how much alfalfa cubes do you add? I have no experience with cubes but may need to start them mid winter, worried about the poor hay I have.
Would my 13 oz can measure be a good amount to add to each horses diet? Daily? a few times a week?? (told you I had not clue) |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16932
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 25, 2006 - 7:05 am: | |
Very healthy shiny boys is never an accident Nancy so what ever you are doing is working fine. Since you ask for a critique the only comments I have is coastal tends to be a bit low in protein so I would use a 16% protein concentrate instead of a 12 and you don't need to complicate things by mixing concentrates, if they are of good quality. Also the hoof supplement may be unnecessary with good quality feed unless you are addressing specific hoof problems.
DrO |
Gmajj
New Member
Username: Gmajj
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 - 1:00 am: | |
Patricia, pelleted feeds have never caused my horses a problem as long as they have adequate water available when eating them.
Angie, I think you should figure your cubes by weight. I never go by scoop or container ounces when feeding. I go by weight because each feed weighs differently depending how compacted it is in processing. Also, protein per pound varies.
I use 3 tools: an Ecko 5 pound food scale, a 20 pound fish scale, and a Purina weight tape. I measure the horse to approximate their weight, figure 2% of that approximated weight and feed that many pounds of feed. Then I adjust up or down over time for the individual as needed. In determining how much pellet or cube to use, take a 3-pound coffee can, plop it on the Ecko scale, zero the scale out and then add pelleted feed to see how much a pound weighs and mark the inside of the can in 1-lb increments. I feed pellets rated at 11% protein, a senior feed rated at 14% protein and alfalfa hay that I figure is around 20% protein (plus or minus). For my alfalfa hay, I take about a 3-4 inch flake and weigh it on the fish scale using a hay net each time I buy a new batch because the weight can vary from supplier to supplier depending on the type of hay and how tight the baler was set. I don't worry about being exact, because that is impossible, but 8lbs of 11% pellets plus 4lbs of 14% senior and 8lbs of 20% alfalfa come to 20lbs of feed with about 15% protein. Formula is (8lbs. pellets x.11)+(4lbs senior x.14)+(8lbs alfalfa x.20)=20P(lbs of feed times Protein%). If you've had basic algebra in high school you can then solve the formula to figure what you are feeding. .88+.56+1.6=20P, 3.04=20P, 3.04/20=P. .152=Protein. If you want less than 15.2% protein, you could increase the 11% and lower the 14% or 20% feed and recalculate. I hope this helps. I am just trying to get across a concept that works for me and may work for you. I hope I am calculating correctly.....hmmmm. The Doc can straighten me out if I am wrong. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16944
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 - 7:04 am: | |
Your concept and math look sound for maintaining a steady amount and nutritional profile for a horse where the amount of feed required to maintain condition is already established. But it does miss the point that horses vary considerably in amount of energy required and the importance of judging condition and it's effect on the amount fed. So always start with the Golden Rule in Overview of Feeding and work from there.
DrO |
Angie
Member
Username: Ajudson1
Post Number: 841
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 - 7:41 am: | |
Gmajj,
That is a great forumla that I will keep in mind. I think though my method of counting how many cans of grain/pellets I get out of each 50 lb bag works o.k. for me, with out the math headache!! (I have never been keen on math) Maybe I don't have the protein figured exactly of course; that is something to think about. |
Gmajj
New Member
Username: Gmajj
Post Number: 4
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 - 12:40 pm: | |
You are right, Doc. I should have added a caveat. I do look at individual energy needs. But I think this basic formula works okay for the average pleasure horse that is ridden a few times a week. My grandkids' geriatric 4-H horses are fed much differently than my 6-month old colt and my 7-year old mare. If you really get into the science of feeding, it can make your head spin!! I try to stick to basics and not be confused with all the "wonder" feeds and supplements. I guess I have been lucky. I think it also important to have well-horse vet checks, including teeth and shots. I have my vet out every fall and spring. Worming is important too. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16954
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 - 7:58 pm: | |
Ahhhh the average horse, yes, on average hay, with average amounts of work, and an average environment. Though you offer a good starting place with your rule and is very similar to the calculated starting place in our article, I think my feeding rule is both simpler and works in every case: see The Golden Rule in Overview of Nutrition if you really want a simple feeding program.
 DrO |
Gmajj
New Member
Username: Gmajj
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 26, 2006 - 8:11 pm: | |
Yep, I read it. Thanks Doc. |
NANCY FORTENBERRY
Member
Username: Keys
Post Number: 27
Registered: 5-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Oct 28, 2006 - 6:45 pm: | |
Thanks Angie...I add just a couple of cubes and increase slowly till I am up to about 1/2 a can. Here is why...(this is for you too Dr. O) My boys are not ridden (yet) and tend to get fat easily...they also get wacky when they get too much protein. However, I will increase the protein now, cause the weather is getting colder. Texas (south) is fairly mild in the winter, but anything below 60 seems cold to these guys and me too! lol
As far as the hoof supplement; we had a horribly dry summer and they cracked. I'm just trying to get them back into condition. I don't plan on keeping them on it. ;) Putting the ol' water hose to them has helped mucho. One thing for sure, they don't have a fungus problem! 
I pretty much go by the horse as to how much they are fed...I just monitor them closely as to what they are doing, the weather, etc...so far, so good I guess. ;)
I just rescued a horse and I am starting her slowly along, as she was under-weight. I don't want to over-load the gal. She is coming along just fine. I will start a worm program in a couple of days...slow there too. I am in my 50's and have never hurt a horse by anything I've done in their care. They are wonderful about getting into trouble all on their own. dang....
Excuse the rambling here, but it just kills me that my pastures and barn are as safe as I can make them...and other people have horses (and babies) in lots and pastures with all kinds of dangerous things, and yet those horses never seem to get hurt. I am glad they don't, it is just weird that mine have.
OK...that's it. Thanks for the replies you all. I appreciate it! This site has helped me out soooo much in the past and just continues to do so. Thumbs up! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16969
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Oct 29, 2006 - 9:34 am: | |
Nancy, if your feet have improved with hosing, it is not because of the hosing but in spite of. Some of the best looking horses feet are those of the western deserts where the conditions are very dry, while most domestic horses get their feet wet repeatedly daily even when the conditions are dry. The dew, the stall, around the waters, washing, etc all lead to feet that get repeatedly wet. Water removes the natural oils and waxes that protect the proteins of the walls from excessive drying. Just like when your hands get dry from repeated submersion in water, better is to apply hoof conditioners as described in Horse Care » Hoof Care, Trimming, & Shoeing » Care of the Hoof: an Overview and leave the water hose for the water trough.
DrO |
