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Alicia Kost (Aannk)
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 6, 2001 - 9:54 am: |   |
I hope this hasn't already been discussed, but my trainer is getting our barn the West Nile vaccine. Do you think that is safe, considering how little research has been done on it (I saw in the article that only 700 horses had been tested)?
Thanks!! |
Elizabeth Donahue (Paul303)
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 6, 2001 - 7:44 pm: | |
Boy, I would like to know the answer to that also. I've been on the fence about it until I heard regular announcements on WABC radio for the past week. They were directed to horse owners and telling them to contact their vet this week because they would be in and the supply would be limited. They were done like public service announcements, not advertizements. That's scary because WABC radio is mainly directed at the NY metropolitan area urban and suburbanites and not really the country horsey set.
I could better understand it coming from the Animal Channel or ESPN on TV. Anyway, our vet called us to say she was offering it to her regular patients first. So.....we're getting it. Dr. O........any words of reassurance for nervous nellies? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 7, 2001 - 6:32 am: | |
I think this is probably a reasonably safe vaccine. Being similar to the other viral encephalitis's they sort of knew what would work quickly. But remember there can be reactions to even the safesest vaccine. The question you should ask yourself is my horse at risk? The map-link in the site is current through Sept 4 2001. Birds are considered the best sentinel for iding locations that are at risk. Check it out.
DrO |
Chris Mills (Count)
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 7, 2001 - 6:50 am: | |
We gave 6 of our 7 horses their first west nile virus vaccine injection on Tues. So far so good, no fever or soreness. As we are in La. with a reported horse fatality in Vermilion Parish and plenty of water around, we felt we had no choice but to give it and hope for the best.
A side note on this; we were in Tennessee at a TWH breeding farm about a month ago, and the owners were unconcerned about the disease. I was amazed! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Saturday, Sep 8, 2001 - 8:01 am: | |
I am not amazed. Currently WNV has not appeared in TN.
The current status as of Sept 4th Summary of Equine Cases of Clinical WNV Infection (n=66) 1 January through 5 September, 2001:
Connecticut (1 county, 1 equine)
Hartford County (1 premises, 1 horse)
Florida (16 counties, 54 equine)
Baker County (1 premises, 1 horse)
Clay County (2 premises, 2 horses)
Duval County (3 premises, 3 horses)
Gadsden County (1 premises, 1 horse)
Hamilton County (1 premises, 1 horse)
Holmes County (1 premises, 1 horse)
Jefferson County (19 premises, 20 horses)
Leon County (4 premises, 4 horses)
Madison County (4 premises, 4 horses)
Marion County (1 premises, 1 horse)
Nassau County (1 premises, 1 horse)
St. Johns County (2 premises, 2 horses)
Suwannee County (2 premises, 2 horses)
Taylor County (8 premises, 8 horses)
Wakulla County (2 premises, 2 horses)
Walton County (1 premises, 1 horse)
Georgia (3 counties, 5 equine)
Brooks County (2 premises, 2 horses)
Clinch County (1 premises, 1 horse)
Lowndes County (2 premises, 2 horses)
Kentucky (1 county, 1 equine)
Bourbon County (1 premises, 1 horse)
Louisiana (1 parish, 1 equine)
Vermilion Parish (1 premises, 1 horse)
New York (1 county, 2 equine)
Suffolk County (2 premises, 2 horses)
Pennsylvania (2 counties, 2 equine)
Bucks County (1 premises, 1 horse)
Montgomery County (1 premises, 1 horse)
When you look at this pattern really only Fla and Southern Ga. have a serious incidence. I would be preparing if I lived along the Gulf Coast east of Texas or if I lived in a county that had reported the disease within a county or two buffer and also has any yearly incidence of the other encephalitis viruses. There is more information in the article on this latest summary.
DrO |
Ann Cohrs (Apcohrs)
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 9, 2001 - 3:24 pm: | |
Illinois has just reported WNV in Cook County - not equine victims; 'just' two dead crows.
Yikes. I thought we'd have at least until next spring before WNV hit here. |
Lisa Brand (Trouble)
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 9, 2001 - 10:14 pm: | |
Add Indiana to the list also. In the past week 2 dead crows found in the Indianapolis area tested positive for West Nile. I live approx. 60 miles northeast of Indianapolis and am somewhat concerned. I will be calling the vet tomorrow to see what his opinion is. |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 9, 2001 - 11:49 pm: | |
Lisa, I saw that too  I'm in Warsaw, in Kosciusko County. None reported here yet, but it's bound to come soon.
Suzy |
CHERYL GALL (Sctamaus)
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 10, 2001 - 3:28 pm: | |
Lisa and Suzy,
I have been keeping up on this too. My vet is coming wednesday to give my horses their fall shots. I called her to ask if they should have the WNV vaccine. Her reply was she was not going to give it to her own horses because it's new and hasn't been tested on enough horses yet. She said the shot is a live virus and could give a horse WNV.(chances are low)With such a low reported finding in Northern Indiana and with the colder weather coming on, it would help kill off the mosquito population. I'm going to take my vet's advise and wait.(I live 15 miles west of South Bend at Hudson Lake.) |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 10, 2001 - 7:01 pm: | |
Cheryl,
Your vet is incorrect, this is a killed virus vaccine.
DrO |
wendy clower (Wendy)
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 10, 2001 - 10:29 pm: | |
Dr. O - I applaud your quick response with factual data! That's one of the main reasons - right up there with the ability to ramble on to my heart's content with my horse stories - I love this site. I'm in Alabama (and haven't looked into the other's biographies) and we are calm but cautious. Personally, I'm beginning to think this WNV scare is somewhat analogous to the shark attacks. Fact is, there are no more shark attacks this year than last year. Yet, in being cautious in our analysis, we do pay attention to the number of shark attacks being reported. Likewise, we horse people down here in Alabama are paying attention to the WNV "syndrome", but thus far, haven't seen a need to be aggressive in the way of vaccines or any other precaution. Actually, at this point, there are hardly any mosquitos at all! Again Dr.O - thanks for the information and please keep us updated. |
Elizabeth Donahue (Paul303)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 11, 2001 - 12:58 am: | |
My vet SUSPECTS she has a case here in NJ. But Wendy, as I am now understanding it, the fact that they're seeing it more and more in birds ( I think the Philadelphia Zoo lost two birds to it ), is the troublesome part. Soon the migratory birds will begin their flights south. If they take the disease with them, and mosquitoes in other areas bite them, what effect will this have on the spread of the disease? It's unknown factors like this that are so troublesome and make this a matter for horse people to track carefully and stay current on.
My vet has sent in the blood on the horse she suspects. I'll have to try to get the story when she returns for our group's second shot. |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 11, 2001 - 1:23 am: | |
I'm not eager to give DJ such a new vaccine, that's for sure. I'm hoping that it will get cold here before it becomes a problem - if it ever actually does. Meanwhile, I'll just watch and wait.
Suzy |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 11, 2001 - 6:39 am: | |
It is always a balance of risk vs benefit. As of right now, the risk is very low, even in the worst counties where there are reported horse cases but the risk in not 0 anywhere in the East and it steadily spreads West. This is balanced with the cost of a young vaccine of uncertain efficacy and risk. Everyone must decide for themselves where they draw the line and realize that it is drawn with incomplete information at this time and that the facts may change.
DrO |
Marti Thompson (Marti)
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 27, 2001 - 7:40 am: | |
I am in Central Florida and have given the first dose of the vaccine to all of my horses. We have no reports of the disease in my county. I would not want to be one to find out I should have vaccinated and didn't. Even though the vaccine is very new, I feel an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. My horses have had no reaction to the vaccine and will get their second injection next month. Marti |
Darcy Richeson (Darcy)
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 27, 2001 - 9:19 am: | |
I am located in Georgia, and my trainer had his whole barn (36 horses) vaccinated with 1st and 2nd doses with no side effects. I have done my 3 horses at home including a pregnant broodmare with no problems. I agree with the recent comment that I would not want to be the one who should have vaccinated. |
Mary Sprague (Msprague)
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 27, 2001 - 9:39 am: | |
The CDC provides links to individual state and city West Nile Virus information, including reported confirmed cases, at http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvbid/westnile/city_states.htm. This might help you decide whether or not there's a risk.
Since I'm not worried about the safety of the vaccine, I'm going to go ahead and have my two horses vaccinated even though no one is really sure that it works (there's only a reasonable expectation that it works).
Mary in Ohio |
Claudia Hodge (Claudia1)
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 27, 2001 - 10:43 am: | |
Does anyone know the incubation period for WNV? I cannot seem to locate it anywhere. I ask because my horse (and barn) has been vaccinated with round one of the WNV vaccine. However, I have word from my vet that she is currently treating a possible WNV case that HAS been vaccinated & a friend in Tallahassee that works for a large animal vet said they are treating 4 WNV cases each having one or all rounds of the vaccine. Fortunately, my barn is doing all it can to control the mosquito population in and around our horses and we're doing just fine. The chance of acquiring is rare but possible. your input is greatly appreciated. Thanks
Claudia in North Central Florida |
Debra S. O'Hara (Moosey)
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 27, 2001 - 4:55 pm: | |
We've had two confirmed equine cases of WNV here in VA in the county next to us. I wasted no time. My boy got his first round last week! |
Cathleen Androulidakis (Idealwhe)
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 27, 2001 - 6:02 pm: | |
My Vet has it on hand, but suggests we wait. NC hasn't had any reported cases that we know of yet...is that right Dr. O? I didn't see any on your list. I can only think that it's just a matter of time before there are reported cases here in NC. I am interested in updates on the horses that have been vaccinated. Have you vaccinated your horses yet - Dr. O? I know you are in NC too. Also my Vet said something about cases being reported in humans first. When that happens he will give our horses the vaccine. He said the vaccine is very expensive. I would appreciate hearing any comments from all of you on this.
Thanks,
Cathie =^..^= |
Bonita (Bonita)
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 27, 2001 - 10:33 pm: | |
Debra - as a fellow Virginian, what VA county are you in &/or where were the confirmed WNV cases?
Thanks! Bonnie |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 28, 2001 - 8:14 am: | |
Hello Everyone,
Boy I think we need to slow down a bit here, I sense a bit of panic. Lets see, going from easiest to hardest:
1) No cases in NC yet. The map listed above and others are linked to from the article in The Advisor on WNV. I have heard of one new case in VA in Culpepper county the past week.
4) Though human cases this year do not seem as prevalent has horse cases this year usually many bird cases appear before horses become ill and this was also true before they were looking specifically for the disease in birds.
2) In order to calculate incubation you have to infect some horses on purpose in the same manner they were infected in the wild. This has not been done with this strain that I know of. We are estimating from epidemiology (does not appear after the mosquitoes), serological conversion times (does not completely convert by the time clinical signs show) and some of the other viral encephalitides (EEE and WEE) that the incubation is probably 1 to 3 weeks but this is not certain.
3) Concerning the diagnosis of vaccinated animals, I am a bit skeptical. One of the problems with the vaccine in its current state is that you cannot differentiate infection from vaccination serologically (reference: communication from Fort Dodge to veterinarians). So how do they know it is WNV?
The only way would be very expensive and difficult testing. It is important to get this done however so that we know. This confusion is one very good reason to avoid unneccassary vaccination. We do feel this vaccine has a low rate of adverse reactions but we are uncertain as to how effective it is.
I want to take on this "better safe than sorry" attitude. When we begin to vaccinate for diseases that the risk for infection is very low these become by concerns:
1) Causes a missed diagnosis: Your horse now tests positive so that probably is what it is the logic will go. Maybe there was something more treatable.
2) Creates a sense of endemic disease where there is none.
3) Causes a waste of resources or depletes resources where they could be better used. This includes money and time and vaccine. This also includes resources used up treating vaccinates for other diseases that you now cannot rule out by serologically ruling in WNV.
4) Creates an artifical sense of security preventing more effective preventive measures from being taken like avoiding endemic areas or more careful mosquitoe exposure management.
5) What if you are the person who has that rare but severe reaction to the vaccine but are actually at a very low risk of exposure.
It seems to be we are at the point where a single possible case creates a stampede and no one looks at the thousands and thousands of horses in the same area that are not getting sick. Everyone must decide for themselves where the cost vs benefit equation figures in for themselves but you are less likely to do more harm than good if you rely on logic and not emotions to decide.
For more on the factors involved with making a descision on whether to vaccinate or not see, Care: General Care: Vaccinations.
DrO |
Bonita (Bonita)
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 28, 2001 - 8:35 am: | |
Although I wasn't in a "panic" prior to reading this, Dr. O, I happen to live in Culpeper County & this is the first I've heard of a WNV case here. (We've been too busy cleaning up from Monday's tornadoes to keep abreast of local current events!) Please - do you have any more specific info before I call my vet in a state of calm hysteria?
Thanks - Bonnie |
Mary Sprague (Msprague)
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 28, 2001 - 11:35 am: | |
My logic told me that my horses are at minimal risk for contracting West Nile Virus in southern Ohio. There has been one reported dead bird in a one contiguous county, and I am careful about eliminating standing water on my property, and I have neighbors who are good about this too. However, when the state vet makes a public service announcement about contacting your vet to schedule vaccinating your horses, and your own vet, who is normally conservative about vaccination, contacts you to set up the vaccination (and you've been told its in short supply), it's difficult to resist "the better safe than sorry" approach.
I have found it much easier, for some reason, to resist having my boys vaccinated for EPM. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 28, 2001 - 11:54 am: | |
No Bonita, I heard this report on the radio and do not have more information, if should be confirmed from a second source. Mary, as I wrote above on Sept 8th, if you have had a case in your county or a contiguos county you fall within MY definition of a reasonable reason to give the vaccine.
DrO |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 28, 2001 - 1:01 pm: | |
Opps I see I missed one question. Cathie, no I have not vaccinated my horses for WNV. I have not even stocked it yet because there was a reported possible shortage and it looked like FL was going to need most of it.
DrO |
Cathleen Androulidakis (Idealwhe)
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 28, 2001 - 2:31 pm: | |
Thanks Dr. O - I was beginning to think you dodged the question. Thanks for going back and picking up on that. It was important to me. That's three Vets out of three that I know that have NOT vaccinated their own personal horses (IN NC!). Please let me/us know when you change your mind.
Thanks,
Cathie =^..^= |
JM (Jojo15)
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 28, 2001 - 10:57 pm: | |
yep, you can add Lake county and monroe (key west) and Broward counties to that list for Florida.
Some one mentioned they were in Central Florida. Both Marion and Lake Counties (orlando/ocala areas) are Central FLorida, so its heeeerrre.
What to do?
Jojo |
Linda Elie (Linelie)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 2, 2001 - 8:32 pm: | |
Just a note from South Florida
My vet has a horse in the clinic that MAY have WNV, or may have EPM. The problem is that it will take 2 weeks to find out definitively if it has WNV. The horse came in with a high fever, which is now gone, but he is very neurologic. I'll keep you posted. |
Monika Orendorf (Pfdusty)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 2, 2001 - 8:56 pm: | |
We had the first few dead birds here in Central Ohio now. |
Cathleen Androulidakis (Idealwhe)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 3, 2001 - 7:57 am: | |
Let's all do our part and make heroic efforts to dump all standing water around our areas. Put mosquito dunks into the ditches that harbor mosquitoes, and spray or fog where you can. I feel like the mosquitoes are bad this year. However...come to think of it, I feel like that every year. Ugh! I hate those things. My girls are in the Buccas fly sheets (I know...here I go again about the fly sheets...sorry!) which seem to truly help keep the mosquito bites off of them. I know for sure because the one I have in the low neck version has bites when she comes in on her neck. The two other mares wearing the high neck version do not. If we all get together on this we might help keep some of these mosquito borne diseases at bay. I have recruited friends and neighbors to dump and spray too. Every little bit helps.
Dr. O, will the fact that cold weather is on it's way help to slow the spread of this down? Or will we hear more about this in Florida and the warmer states from the bird migration?
Thanks,
Cathie =^..^= |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 4, 2001 - 6:59 am: | |
Yes the early cold will definately help and yes I believe we will hear of more cases origintaing from FL before this year is out.
DrO |
Bonita (Bonita)
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 4, 2001 - 7:59 am: | |
Speaking of WNV in Florida, a poster on another equine website announced last nite that she was speaking to a friend in FL who advised her that the "vaccine is not working".
I immediately posted a request for her to please amplify that statement, if possible - i.e. are vaccinated horses coming down with confirmed cases of WNV, or what?
Will post if/when I get a reply. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 4, 2001 - 10:36 am: | |
Her opinion would be about worthless under just about any circumstance Bonita. Even ignoring the nature of the Internet and the difficulty of proper diagnosis of vaccinated horses, there are a number of reasons that good vaccines fail.
It will require careful study and controlled studies to answer this question and at this time we are sticking with our current recommendations.
DrO |
Bonita (Bonita)
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 4, 2001 - 11:54 am: | |
Agreed Dr. O. I guess, like a lot of others here, I can't help but feel wary about using something new. No one wants to be the guinea pig, but then again no one wants to be "caught with their bloomers down" either. I guess that's the only way we're ever going to establish the safety &/or efficacy of these vaccines.
Bonnie |
Christine C. Mills (Chrism)
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 11, 2001 - 11:27 am: | |
So, Dr. O, now that there are several cases of West Nile virus in NC, are you stocking or recommending vaccination for your clients?
Just curious. The recent news reports are worrisome.
Thanks. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 12, 2001 - 6:52 am: | |
Hello Chris,
It is something to consider.
We have had three bird cases now in NC, 2 on the north coast (Camden Co.) and 1 in (Cabarrus Co.) so everything is still very light and far away from us. It is getting colder so I still am not vaccinating my horses. I will probably begin stocking this winter and will offer the option for next year but still have not made up my mind will I vaccinate my horses. People considering this option need to realize there is probably about a 30 to 40 day delay (10 to 14 days following the booster shot) from the onset of beginning vaccination before there is protection.
I have to admit, until we start seeing a lot more cases I will not be gung-hoe about this. The cost of vaccination, the problems it causes with diagnosis, the lack of information on efficacy, and the current low rate of infection in horses, even in areas where a lot of birds have been found with this, all make me think I am vaccinating the owners against their fears rather than providing cost-effective herd health for their horses.
DrO |
Christine C. Mills (Chrism)
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 12, 2001 - 11:08 am: | |
Dr. O,
There was also a news article about a bird that had it at Jordan Lake.
Definitely getting close to home.
I'm puzzling it out myself - the pros and cons are almost equally weighted, but the 50% mortality is rather ugly.
Thanks for being so candid. |
JM (Jojo15)
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 12, 2001 - 4:22 pm: | |
I just received a call from the lady who pastures my mare. She is having the vet out to vaccinate the 2nd round for her and wanted to know if I wanted to vaccinate my girl too. But based on this thread, I am more confused than ever.
If I vaccinate her... and she doesn't get it, she would still come up positive for it when they pulled blood? But she really doesn't have it. Ok. i get that part. But, Is there a reason why this would matter to me?
Is it because if I vaccinate and she does get something EEE, WEE, WNV then the blood test won't be accurate and diagnosis of other virus' can't be ruled out? HUH? Am I making sense? See how confused I am. Is this the same with all vaccinations? Or only because this one is new? She was vaccinated for Encephalitis but I don't know for which type.
Anyway, She is in Altoona/(Lake County) They have confirmed cases in surrounding areas. There are ponds everywhere even on property (maybe I will send her some minnows  ). But the weather is getting cooler (especially at dusk /dawn). I don't want to vaccinate unless I can watch her for the first 48 hours (for reactions) which won't be till November when I go back up. And all this talk of -- is it even effective --isn't helping my decision.
What would YOU do? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Saturday, Oct 13, 2001 - 9:28 am: | |
Hello Chris
We know from serological studies in areas where it has become endemic that over 50% percent of horses who are exposed (have developed titers) to the disease develop no clinical disease. The 50% mortality figure concerns the prognosis of those who have become moderately to seriously ill and actually this number is changing. I have changed the 50% mortality stated in my article to that of two more recent studies done this year, one that has a 40% and the other quotes an "at least 20% mortality".
I think we are still uncertain about what is happening in the majority of horses but it appears the large majority who contract this disease either display no or comparitively mild illness. Unfortunately we concentrate on those that have serious confirmed illness and so the appearence of this disease is skewed.
Jo, I have stated what I am doing above. It is important to be able to tell the true incidence of a disease so that we can develop accurate rule out lists for proper treatment, develop cost effective prevenitive programs, and so that we will know where to direct research efforts for the future. None of this is possible if we do not
know if a disease is a problem or not. If this seems a bit superfluous, the history of vaccination is riddled with cases of diesases that could not be controlled until vaccination was stopped, including Foot and Mouth Disease. And this is not to say vaccination did not have a hand in helping control the disease. As above you have to balance risk and benefit.
For a little perspective on this disease:
1) From Jan 2001 through Oct 1st 2001 137 cases of WNV have been diagnosed in horses in the US.
2) In the year 2000 there were approximately 800 human deaths directly attributable to horses. Though I heard this figure from an insurance company represenitive on a radio program I find this number very believable since one was within 15 miles of my home.
If we make some assumptions like for every horse there is a equestrian and that roughly 1/5 of the horses live in the areas effected by WNV:
1) Currently you as an equestrian are 2 times more likely to die in an horse related accident than your horseis likely to contract WNV.
2) If we use the most recent numbers of death rates in horses with WNV then you are 5 to 8 times more likely to die from your horse than your horse is to die from WNV.
3) Take note: if you live in a county that has already had a confirmed horse case your horses risk is much larger, if you live in a county where there has NOT even been a bird case your horses risk is much lower than this to contract WNV.
I think the incidence of WNV will continue to grow, possibly at exponential rates, until it is as endemic as EEE and WEE. I am hoping that efficacy studies and changes in either testing or the vaccine will relieve us of some of these down side considerations.
DrO |
JM (Jojo15)
| | Posted on Saturday, Oct 13, 2001 - 10:07 pm: | |
Thanks Dr. O. Since I can't even fathom how you figure stuff out, I shall just take your word on it. and hopefully I don't drop dead from a kick in the head. But, If I do will you please do me a favor and vaccinate my horse for me?
jojo |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Sunday, Oct 14, 2001 - 9:50 am: | |
Of course or at least I will inform your vet of your last wishes.
DrO |
Christine C. Mills (Chrism)
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 15, 2001 - 2:22 pm: | |
I discussed this with my riding horse's vet Friday afternoon as she was due for shots.
He told me that getting the vaccine is a real problem.
We plan to reassess early next year.
I am using deet based bug repellent when I am out there on the horse, and since the gnats are still active, she is wearing her Boett PJ, so she is probably more protected than most.
Yearling horse lives out all the time and over in north Durham county. I give her a spritz when I am out, but I don't see her as often.
Let's hope these are just migratory birds that are falling out of the sky and not representative of our local birdies.
Thanks for all the scoop. I find your statistics interested, Dr. O. The one exception I would take is that I can improve and influence my own riding to mitigate my risk - the bites of mosquitos are fairly random and I am less able to influence the outcome. Which is probably why people would rather drive a car than ride in an airplane - even though flying is statistically less hazardous, one gives up control/influence over the outcome.
My boss in my very first job out of college (in the age of punch cards, collators, JCL and paper NC tape) told me, "there are liars, there are da** liars and there are statisticians." Hmmm.
The prior year, one of my Profs used a discipline of math (operations research) to prove no matter what line I got in at the store, it would always be the slowest. Taught me to be patient, GRIN.
Cheers. |
Cathleen Androulidakis (Idealwhe)
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 15, 2001 - 6:21 pm: | |
I am here to tell you all that my Vet was just here and vaccinated my horses for WNV. I didn't think we would this year but apparently the proximity of the horses that have it are close enough to the beach at eastern NC for him to feel the need to begin vaccinating his patients and his own horses. I really don't know how to feel about this, but I think highly of my Vet. He has saved my horses a couple of times that I will always be thankful for. I respect him both as my Vet and my friend. So...I'm vaccinated...
Cathie =^..^= |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2001 - 6:52 am: | |
Chris, that same math professor could probably show you why your horse is the one at reasonable risk for WNV yet nobody elses horse around you is.
I think that is fine Cathy, coastal NC has always been a hotbed of equine viral encephalitis and I consider y'all far more at risk than my currently very dry piedmont area.
Considering the panicky calls I am beginning to get from clients this week I will probably begin vaccinating some client horses in this area beginning late winter 2002, "just in case" as everyone echos. I will not vaccinate my horses till I see bird cases closer to home or they fix the diagnosis problem.
DrO |
wendy clower (Wendy)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2001 - 7:23 pm: | |
DrO. Again, I appreciate your to-the-point yet entertaining info re WNV. I caught you on my email and went to the actual discussion, bypassed others due to time constraints, and was immediately updated - which relieved bubbling fears! Thanks again for your precise advise and your "friendly user" site. Wendy |
Bonita (Bonita)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2001 - 8:21 pm: | |
Hi All!
Well, my vet was just here today to vaccinate the "gang" for Fall & we discussed the WNV issue as he feels it pertains to our Piedmont area of Virginia. The WNV case that was reported to be in Culpeper was actually in Madison (which is the county right next door), & unfortunately the horse did have to be euthanized.
Due to the dry weather, 2 recent frosts, & winter on the way, my vet said that he doesn't feel it is necessary for us to vaccinate right now unless we personally wish to, but he is strongly recommending it to all of his clients for next spring. He feels the virus is cropping up too rapidly in too many different places, can be devastating to treat, & that the vaccine probably has &/or will prove to have the same safety/efficacy as any of the others we're currently giving.
Soooo - since he'll be back in a month to give my baby his second booster, will decide then whether or not I'll give the vaccine a shot (no pun intended!) now, or wait until Spring 2002.
Decisions, decisions. . . . |
Melissa Webster (Mwebster)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 31, 2001 - 10:36 am: | |
Quick update from eastern MA. As I mentioned in a different thread, we started finding dead crows (2 in our own back yard! ugh!) several weeks ago. A third turned up yesterday. Anyhow, we vaccinated and the horses got their booster 2 weeks ago.
I just heard from a friend (a vet tech) who lives just 3 towns away that her old gelding just tested positive with WN and is suffering radial nerve paralysis, can't go forward and can only back up, in serious shape. This is the only one of her several horses that she didn't vaccinate (she was worried the vaccine might be "hard" on the old guy because of his age). Of course, being older, he may be the one really vulnerable one in her herd, but then again, the vaccine may be protecting some of our equines here.
At this point, I'm glad we went ahead. Hey, it's only money...
Melissa |
Elizabeth Donahue (Paul303)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 31, 2001 - 7:56 pm: | |
Mine are done as are the other seven horses and one Scicilian donkey. Everyone was fine. Since the first shot, we noticed sparrows dropping like flies. That's leveled off a bit this past week or so, since the arrival of chillier temperatures here in NJ. Our vet has had a case and an aquaintence from team penning has an elderly gelding diagnosed. |
Debra S. O'Hara (Moosey)
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 14, 2002 - 12:58 pm: | |
Bonita, sorry I hadn't gotten back to you about where the cases of WNV were in Virginia. I haven't been to this site for awhile. Anyway, we knew of the case in Madison co. and then the local newspaper reported 2 equine cases in Rockingham co. I live in Shenandoah county, so this was getting pretty close to home. Our vet recommended we go ahead and vaccinate. Nine horses were vaccinated at our barn. Everyone did fine. No reactions at all. I don't understand all the talk about the expense. It didn't cost any more than any of the other shots. I think it cost me about $15.00. Well worth it!!! |
Heather Matthys (Equus)
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 14, 2002 - 4:21 pm: | |
$15.00? Boy you are lucky! A regular vaccine here (by that I mean standard like encephalitis, rabies, and the like) are between $5 and $15. But the WNV was a whopping $50! Still, since I am in Florida........land of the mosquitoes and accepted home of the disease......I got both my horses vaccinated. I did it early in the spring before the mosquitoes hit and I'm glad I did. There was a severe shortage of the vaccine by summer and friends of mine were on waiting lists for several months. |
Bonita (Bonita)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2002 - 12:10 am: | |
No problem Debra!
I spoke to my vet about it, & I will definitely be vaccinating my little band against WNV this coming spring.
Vet felt that while it wasn't absolutely necessary right now during the cold weather, he is recommending adding it to all of his clients' spring vaccination schedules. |
Christine C. Mills (Chrism)
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 11, 2002 - 12:08 pm: | |
Just an update, one of the larger local (Raleigh, NC) vet practices is recommending immunizations as they do their "spring shots."
Just thought I'd add the latest in local going ons. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 12, 2002 - 6:20 am: | |
Thanks Chris,
We started in January. There has been found a way to differentiate vaccinates from infections which removes the second most important obstacle (see article for details). As you probably know cases started being reported in NC in the past fall so this appears to be our year. Coastal areas will be the big concern but anywhere there are mosquitoes and migrating birds will be at risk.
DrO |
Pamela Newport (Pnewport)
| | Posted on Monday, Mar 25, 2002 - 7:52 pm: | |
I know this can't be that difficult but I can't figure out how to start a new string. Please move this for me and forgive me for maybe putting it in the wrong place!
I'm going to be traveling from AZ to Georgia the second week in April with two horses, taking about five days to get there. I'm waiting to hear my vets opinion on whether or not I should vaccinate and even if she can get the vaccine in time before I leave.
My question is, should I wait until I get there to vaccinate rather than do it a week before leaving and take a chance on it further stressing the horses in addition to the long trip. I expect to stay and ride in the surrounding areas for several months.
Thanks a lot. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Monday, Mar 25, 2002 - 8:50 pm: | |
Hello Pamela,
The create a new discussion button is at the bottom of every list of Forum Discussions. For instance this discussion you have posted to here originates from the subtopic: Vaccines and Vaccination Schedules under which there are Articles and the List of Forum Discussions (Topics). Go to the top of this page and select Vaccines and Vaccination Schedules from the navigation bar and go to the bottom of that page and you will see the button. Two weeks to go before moving I would go ahead and vaccinate.
DrO |
Pamela Newport (Pnewport)
| | Posted on Monday, Mar 25, 2002 - 9:19 pm: | |
Dr. O,
Thank you very much. I think I've got it now. Yes, I will vaccinate if I can get the vaccine right away. We're kind of in the sticks here.
Pam |
M. Jane Blackburn (Mjane)
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 1, 2002 - 12:59 am: | |
DrO,
I have searched but cannot find how young is too young to give the West Nile vaccine? The mare was vaccinated prior to the foal's birth. The filly is now 3 months old. We live in Missouri and a 3 year old race horse was euthanized this week in the St Louis area after being diagnosed.
Jane |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 1, 2002 - 6:59 am: | |
Let's see we just had a discussion on this and you will find it in the West Nile Virus forum: Equine Diseases: Nervous System: West Nile Virus : West Nile Vaccination for Foal?
DrO |
ELAINE BROWN
New Member
Username: Shorty
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 17, 2002 - 11:15 pm: | |
I LIVE IN NORTHEAST, FL AND REGRET EVER GIVING THE WNV SHOT. I BELIEVE IT HAS DONE MORE HARM THAN GOOD IN MY SITUATION. I HAVE DONE A LOT OF RESEARCH ON WNV AND AM CONVINCED IF YOU HAVE A HEALTHY HORSE THINK TWICE AND DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND THEN DECIDE. CHECK OUT HOW MANY HORSES HAD WNV IN YOUR AREA BEFORE AND AFTER THE VACINE WAS DISTRIBUTED IN YOUR AREA. ONE VERY WELL KNOW VET DOWN SOUTH FROM ME HAD 70 CASES COME TO THEM AND THEY CONTACTED THE MANUFACTURE AND EVEN TOLD THEM THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG. HERE IN MY OWN CITY ONE VET SAID THEY HAD 14 CASES AFTER THE FIRST SHOT WAS GIVEN AND ANOTHER VET SAID THEY HAD SEVERAL CASES, COINCIDENTAL OR WHERE THEY ALL IN THE INCUBATION PERIOD? ONE OF MY HORSES SHOWS A SYMPTON OF THE WNV AND AFTER GOING TO THE U OF FLORIDA VET HOSPITAL AND HAVING EXTENSIVE TREATMENT WHICH THEY COULD NEVER FIGURE OUT WHAT WAS CAUSING MY PROBLEM. I STARTED REALLY DOING SOME HEAVY RESEARCH AND WAS SHOCKED AT WHAT ALL WE HAVEN'T BEEN TOLD ABOUT THE VACINE AND THE VIRUS, THE PROS AND CONS. YOU DO THE HOMEWORK AND THEN THINK LONG AND HARD ABOUT THE SHOT. I PERSONALLY KNOW 4 PEOPLE WHO GAVE THE SHOT THEN THEIR HORSE "GOT" WNV..... I JUST WANT YOU TO DO WHAT IS BEST FOR YOUR HORSES. GOOD LUCK IN WHATEVER YOU DECIDE. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 6930
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Sep 18, 2002 - 6:12 am: | |
Hello Elaine,
They would not have to be incubating the virus to get the infection after the first shot. A good immune response does not occur until after the second shot, so a horse could have received the first injection or even be exposed shoretly after the second shot and still be.
You are correct in that we still have big gaps in our knowlege about this vaccine but it seems very unlikely that one of the problems is that the vaccine causes WNV infection. I personally have given almost a thousand doses without a reaction that I am aware of. What is the difference between our area and yours: we are not having natural cases in horses yet, your area has been very hard hit with naturally ocuring cases.
DrO |
