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Barb Fjerstad (Fjerstad)
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 1, 2001 - 11:01 am: |   |
I have a 13 y.o. Thoroughbred/Qtr gelding. He began having episodes of colic in June. Once in June, once in July, twice in August, 3 times in Sept. and now 4 times in four weeks. My vet originally thought it was parasite overload. We double dosed him on Strongid and began him on a daily dewormer. He colicked again. I gave him the Panacur power pac (5days of double dose panacur) Colicked again. All of the colics are relatively mild and usually one dose of Banamine alleviates his pain. Twice I had to have the vet come and give him something stronger. We took him to a clinic and the vet did an abdominal tap and found bacteria, figured it was a peritoneal abscess. So we began him on 30 days of Sulfa-Meth TMP, twice daily. He is still colicking. He has had two rectals, once during a colic episode, once when he wasn't. All felt normal. Did another abdominal tap and bacteria level is down. Colicked again. He almost always will try to eat when he is colicky. Colics do not seem to have anything to do with feed which is mostly grass hay, some pasture time 1/2 - 2 hours a day, and one cup of sweet mix with his daily de-wormer. I had my vet do a chiropractic adjustment and his whole sacral, lumbar, and hip region as well as 3 or 4 ribs were WAY out of whack. Every time he colics he looks at his right side, rests his right hip and lays down on his left side. He does not roll, just lays down and goes up on his back, pretty mellow not violent rolling at all. I have tried to massage his back and he does not want me near him when his is colicky. We are at a total loss as to what is going on. HELP !!! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 2, 2001 - 5:59 am: | |
I am afaraid there is nothing in your post that indicates why he may be colicky other than the bacteria. What type bacteria are they and what were they sensitive to? Were there also elevated white blood cell counts in the peritoneal fluid?If they feel the bacteria was just needle contamination, review the article associated with this forum for possible causes (click on title above) and how to go about ruling them out. With a recurrent colic that palapates normal I usually start with this list of diseases to pursue:
1) Verminous Colic, A thorough deworming
2) Sand Colic
3) Gastric Ulcers
4) Intermittent nephrosplenic entrapment
5) Recurrent impactions
But this list is far from exhaustive and history and other clinical signs can effect the list greatly.
DrO |
Barb Fjerstad (Fjerstad)
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 8, 2001 - 12:33 pm: | |
Finally an answer,
After colicking for what seemed like the millionth time my vet decided that we had no alternatives but to do the colic surgery. He was operated on Nov 5th, the only abnormal thing was the abundance of very large lymphnodes on the cecum/ileum area. He snipped to lymphnodes and sent them to a lab. He believed that this may be caused by three things; cancer, allergies, or a localized infection. The lab results came back last night and it was a localized infection. In retrospect my original vet should have been clued in by the blood test showing abnormally high numbers in the Skegs, bands and white blood cell count. My horse is recovering from the surgery and has been placed on high dose IV antibiotics. What would cause a localized infection like this? His abdominal tap showed bacteria, don't know what kind, fibrinogens (spelling?), and some WBC. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 9, 2001 - 7:17 am: | |
What organisms were found in the biopsy of the lymph nodes Barb?
DrO |
Barb Fjerstad (Fjerstad)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 13, 2001 - 4:44 pm: | |
We never did find out what kind of bacteria, all the lab results said was lymphatic hyperplasia. All I find on this is in the throat and it is similar to tonsilitis in a human. Is it the same biological event only in a different area? He has not colicked since. Still full of questions about the recurrence of this and how in the world he got it. It makes sense if it is like strep which lives everywhere in the body. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2001 - 9:04 am: | |
Without IDing the bacteria it is difficult to know how this happened and, in my mind, even some uncertainty as to the cause. Different bacteria have different ways of getting into the horse. Cancer, tissue necrosis, and autoimmune diseases can also cause lymphoid hyperplasia.
However, I ill keep my fingers crossed this is the last you have to worry about this.
DrO |
Barb Fjerstad (Fjerstad)
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 29, 2001 - 1:03 pm: | |
I have the latest lab results and they have just given us more questions than answers. Both of my vets are equally stumped with no clues. The biopsy of the lymph nodes says: expansion of the cortex by proliferation of well-differentiated lymphocytes and formation of moderate numbers of lymphoid follicles and with germinal centers. Neoplastic tissue is not present. Moderate numbers of macrophages containing hemosiderin granules are present. Diagnosis: Lymphoid hyperplasia.
Blood results 11 days post surgery:
HCT 31.6
HGB 11.6g/dl
MCHC 36.7 b/dl
WBC 8.6 X 10(9)/L
GRANS 5.7 x 10(9)/L
%GRANS 66%
L/M 2.9 x 10(9) /L
%L/M 34%
PLT 388x 10(9)/L
Segs 63 12-14 hpf
Lymphs 31 Platelets - small one
Monos 2 lymphs - small size
Egs (?) 4 neutro- few hyperseg./normal
T.S. 7.0
The other half of the puzzle is the allergy panel we ran.
He tested positive for Plantain (which we definitely have everywhere in our fields and hay) alder, culicoides, molasses. He tested borderline for grain mix, quackgrass, rhizopus (no idea what this is) and wheat.
The funny thing is that he colicked more after I started him on the daily wormer mixed with 1C of sweet mix. He also had a colic after I gave his antibiotics with molasses. Could the allergies have caused this WHOLE thing? Would it cause such a whole body problem that it caused they lymph nodes in one area to swell? How do I deal with some of these allergies? Thanks for all of your help. I live in an area where there are lots of vets but none with a broad experience range like you find in big cities and at universities. The closest vet university is about 450 miles away. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Monday, Dec 3, 2001 - 7:54 am: | |
I do not know of any scientific evidence to suggest these type allergy tests are of much value in diagnosing allergies. A University of Fla study found they always have false positives and sometimes even false negatives.
DrO |
Barb Fjerstad (Fjerstad)
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 10, 2002 - 4:36 pm: | |
Putting more together as time goes by. My horse has been confined to his corral since his surgery on Nov 5. He is fed high quality grass/alfalfa mix hay. He also has free access to salt, trace mineral and a high pro-phos block. He receives 2 cups of steamed rolled oats in the evening. No symptoms of colic. He has been allowed out on the field for 1/2 hour of grazing, rolling etc. After I accidently left the gate open one night he was out for 12 hours on the field. He was fine all of that day and night but the next evening he colicked again, pretty mild as usual. Normal gut sounds but obviously uncomforatble. I know you said that you have little faith in the allergy panels but the field he was in is full of one of the weeds he is allergic to. He has been fine since then on the same regimen, 1/2 hour on field, same food otherwise. What is your experience with allergies and have you ever seen or experienced allergy caused colics? My vet ran a blood panel after the colic and all are within normal ranges. He believes that it may be some form of anaphalaxis (sp?) |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 11, 2002 - 9:43 am: | |
You forget that the single most common cause of colic is a change in diet. What happened to your horse is exactly what would be expected and why we recommend a slow introduction to grazing.
No I have never seen a allergy induced colic, though I have seen lots of horses with severe allergic reactions: hives, urticaria, and in severe cases respiratory distress. Colic like symptoms have been reported with anaphalactic reactions but there are always more remarkable symptoms beside colic, see Equine Diseases: Respiratory System: Anaphylactic Shock for more.
We had one horse with severe hives that we thought might be colicking once but once we washed the fly spray off he stopped trying to roll. I believe his skin was itching and burning.
DrO |
Jennifer boes
New Member
Username: Serenjum
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Dec 14, 2002 - 7:40 am: | |
Hopefully this note will find your horse fine. Just in case someone else runs into this, my horse just coliced and the symptoms are remarkably similar to yours. In our case he too had surgery and it turned out to be an epiploic (sp) obstruction. Apparently a portion of his intestine was wedging itself deep into a portion of the body cavity it did not belong contributing to a severe impaction on the left side of his body. The surgery fixed the situation, now we just have to make it through recovery.
Other similar symptoms were a tendency to roll - but only when it rained or the ground was muddy. I think this was his own adaptation to the other similar issue - allergies. I think he rolled in mud to counteract his itchiness. He is a large horse and there is research that suggests the epiploics are related to more body cavity space. A last similar behavior is that he used to turn and look at me all the time when we rode. I assumed he was just nosey, but in hindsight think he may have been trying to tell me he was uncomfortable (he also does not like to have the girth tightened and will bloat regularly to control how tight I can make it). I watched the surgery and cannot help but wonder if your horse was not automatically fixed when the surgeons where looking for the problem. Our vet told us this type of colic is difficult to detect if the portion that is wedged is in a hard to see/reach portion of the body cavity.
If this is read soon, help. My horse currently has edema on both sides of the incision. Is edema the same as swelling? Is there anything I can do for the edema/swelling? When should it go down? Should I be walking him alot? His temperature has been normal and I am not sure how to check is heart rate?
He is on free choice hay with light grazing when we walk. It just snowed here so he cannot eat much grass. Should I be grazing him at all? Should I add anything to the hay? How do I tell if the hay is good? His stall is a dirt floor other than the portion where we feed him which has a mat. Should his food be in a haynet for a while?
Apologize for the rambling. I am worried about the swelling. It looks larger than when we brought him home 1.5 days ago, but seems to go down a bit after I walk him. Thw swelling is about equal on either side of the incision. When should I call a vet and would there be anything they could do for him? There was about a 9 hour gap between the morning walk and the afternoon walk and then a 2.5 hour gap between his afternoon walk and his evening walk. Does the timing of the walks make a difference? I have to work during the day and our barn is not currently set-up to provide the mid-day walks - do I need to move him to a rehab barn for a month or two?
Thank you. Reading through this website makes the not sleeping/worrying productive. Jennifer
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 8010
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Mar 22, 2003 - 11:18 am: | |
I think the increased swelling should be looked at by your veterinarian today to see if there is specific therapy that needs to be instituted. About the only symptomatic treatment would be a belly band but they are hard to apply and you will need help from your veterinarian if he deems it important. As to the other questions, much depends on the specifics of your surgery so should be directed to the surgeon and primary veterinarian on the case.
DrO |
