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kerry bixby (Parfait)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Apr 9, 2002 - 3:05 pm: |   |
I have a 19 year old Arabian mare that is showing chronic, mild colic signs. She has a history of colicing with pain (heat cycles) but hasn't done so in many years. As long as I intervene early with Banamine, she immediately snaps out of the cycle. Her last colic was March 29th and she was in heat. Today April 9th, she is not in but did colic, and again responded quickly to medication. Gut sounds have been normal but today they were a little hyper-motile. This started to occur in December. She is also Cushinoid and on Cyproheptadine as of last year.
She is extremely carefully managed in feed and turn-out routine because she has always been touchy. She gets Timothy hay, warm fresh water, literally 1/8 cup dry oats at night(to not hurt her feelings) with daily wormer in the morning(with Spring/fall ivermectin)and Platinum Performance and Equinyl CM. Her weight looks good right now on this regumine. My place is immaculate. All horses (4 total), including mini donkey are on Daily wormer. She has never gotten alfalfa because she couldn't handle the fermentation so she has always been on grass. We live in Western Washington state, so sand really isn't a problem. Her weight has always been a struggle as she is an easy keeper. Could I be seeing a lipoma? She was treated for a nephraspleenic entrapment this winter that I think was misdiagnosed. Maybe the case was really mild or the vet just too new and young to be convincing.
How do I check for something like a lipoma? I'd like to intervene now if I can find a tumor...Maybe ulcers as the colic symptoms show within 2 hours after feeding-would that be similar to people? Pain after eating? The mare doesn't really fit into the other chronic colic catagories. Any other suggestions? I love this mare!!!!
Thanks for any help
Kerry |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Apr 10, 2002 - 5:29 am: | |
Hello Kerry,
Lipoma is possible as are several other problems. Though you think you may be able to rule out some problems from history or signalment, say like enteroliths because you do not feed alfalfa, you really cannot. They may be less likely but that does not remove them from the list it just moves them further down than other more likely possibilities. When you say she was treated for n-s ligament entrapment, do you mean she had surgury to close the space? How many episodes of colic has she had in the past 4 months?
Probably the first step is scoping this mare to help rule out gastric ulcers. I am afraid the only way to investigate for a lipoma is exploratory abdominal surgery.
DrO |
kerry bixby (Parfait)
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 11, 2002 - 12:50 pm: | |
Thank you Dr. O.
She was treated medically for the n/s entrapment with phenylephrine and jogging (which was really more like she threw her tail over her back and park-trotted)That was December and so she has coliced three times in the last four months. After reviewing my records from last year, she coliced twice at about the same time of the year (April and May). I must have mentally tied that in with the problems she was having with Cushings type stuff at the time and forgotten it. Before that time it was over 7 years since her last colic. Anyway, could some of this be a transition problem? I want to think of the easy stuff.
OK, Thank you for the advise on the ulcers, that will be my next step. |
KATHLEEN WHEAT (Kathleen)
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 11, 2002 - 3:47 pm: | |
Kerry,
My Arabian mare also suffered from recurring mild colic. She was scoped, found to have ulcers, they were treated, she was rescoped and they were healed. This was about 11 years ago. She was treated at Marion duPont Scott Equine Medical Center in Virginia. They have been involved with ulcer research for many, many years. Problem is they still don't really seem to know what causes ulcers. The last few times I was there, they seemed to feel that the more they learn, the less they really understand about cause/effect of ulcers. My mare suffered from recurring ulcers and colic for 8 years. Nothing we did could keep them from coming back. During all this time, I asked many times if the vets felt like the ulcers could be caused by some kind of pain and they did not feel like that would be a cause. I started keeping a detailed daily record and noticed that her discomfort coincided with her heat cycles. At one point, she had very erratic cycles (didn't come in from July thru November, came in in Dec, stayed in for over 30 days straight, went out for about a week, came in again and stayed in heat for over 60 days straight). She was palpated, ultrasounded, blood tested, and everything came up normal (whatever that is). She was stalled next to a stallion for 4 days (just coincidence, not to try to treat her problem) and a couple of days later she went out of heat and then started cycling normally again. Since then she has cycled fairly normally, but when she was about to come in heat, she got touchy on her sides, flanks and back. The vets still didn't take it too seriously as a cause of the recurring colic and ulcers. I did some research and found a product called Hormonise (it is also used to treat Cushingoid horses, but it didn't seem to have any lasting results with the two horses we tried it on). We put our mare on the Hormonise and followed their instructions. She stopped having the discomfort during her heat cycles and she has not had the ulcers come back (it's been about 3 years now) and she's had one colic (it occurred the day after I saw the barn help hit her in the head with a halter while she was standing in her stall). We only had her on the Hormonise for about 3-4 months. This year she was showing signs of discomfort and we are putting her back on the Hormonise for about 6 weeks. I don't know if any of this will help you with your horse, but just keep it in mind that the colic and the ulcers are just symptoms of a problem, not necessarily 'the problem'. |
Elizabeth Donahue (Paul303)
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 11, 2002 - 8:17 pm: | |
Kathleen mentioned that they don't really know the cause of ulcers. Dr. O, have they researched bacteria as the cause - like they discovered in humans? |
KATHLEEN WHEAT (Kathleen)
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 11, 2002 - 9:09 pm: | |
Elizabeth,
I can't answer for Dr O, but the vets at Morven said no they haven't isolated a bacteria. I asked them about treating with antibiotics and they said they wouldn't know what to try since they don't know the bacteria, if there is one. They said that if we treated her with the same antibiotic that is given to either humans or dogs (can't remember which), that it would cause 'fatal diarhea' (their words, not mine).
Kathleen |
kerry bixby (Parfait)
| | Posted on Thursday, Apr 11, 2002 - 11:15 pm: | |
Thanks Kathleen,
I have read a little about Hormonise. I had this mare on Regumate for three summers and frankly they were some of her healthiest. I did it for showing reasons as well as not having to worry about her when we were traveling.
Thanks for the information about the ulcers. It does sound familiar.
Kerry |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Friday, Apr 12, 2002 - 4:20 am: | |
Hello All,
The bacteria associated from human gastric ulcers is Heliobacter sp. and they have looked and as Kathleen's vets have correctly said: so far they do not find the the organism in horses asociated with gastric ulcers. Metronidazole was (is?) the antibiotic of choice and when added to the horse's ulcer treatment regimen no extra benefit has been noted. I am not sure about the fatal diarrhea however, its use has been recommended in horses for several conditions and in one review of Metronidazole only 4 of the 200 horses had signs of adverse effects associated with metronidazole treatment. Those 4 horses had poor appetite that resolved when metronidazole treatment was discontinued. But we digress....
When you say transition, Kerry, I presume you mean from anestrus to cycling, the way to find out is to have her palpated during the next few colics and if there always is a big follicle that is painful on palpation it goes on the list pretty high up.
DrO |
kerry
Member
Username: Parfait
Post Number: 52
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 1, 2003 - 2:54 am: | |
DR. O.,
I just brought my mare home (again) from the fairgrounds where she exhibited colic, from impaction--just as she did a month prior when I was at the same venue and the pattern was very similar only this time, I thought I was well prepared. In between she has shown well and dandy at different locations.
On June 6th the weather had turned quite hot (in the 90's) and it had been in the 60's. Within 24 hours on the fairgrounds, her manure was firm, I gave her salt and gatorade (she likes orange) but she never caught up and later that afternoon she was stomping her back feet. It took two rounds of tranqs to make her comfy. Once I got her home she was fine by am.
This time the weather wasn't a factor. I didn't haul my own water as she has been drinking fine at all other shows (and I thought it was the heat). I had however started salting her 1-2 weeks ago to increase her intake as a precaution. I fed her this morning at 6:30. She had emptied 2/3 of each of her 5 gal water buckets over night and I was pleased about that. Took her to the braider, whom she knows and I waited there with her, I put her in the stall, left her for 20 minutes and by the time I got back she was down. It was that quick last time also. And she pops out of it at home.
She is very sensitive, this is her first "real" year showing. I think she is somehow teatering on dehyration always and that vet with the scope wants to scope her (but he wants to scope all my horses). What do you suggest I do as a next step? Last time she had the colic her blood test was all in the normal range except for the whites were a little low and she was mildly dehydrated but still--barely out of the normal ranges. This is the place where they hold the regional championships--I'd like to get this resolved. Good thing she likes another region...sheesh.
Thanks!
Kerry |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 8692
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 1, 2003 - 9:47 am: | |
What type salt did you use?
DrO |
kerry
Member
Username: Parfait
Post Number: 53
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 1, 2003 - 10:39 am: | |
OK, but this isn't the old mare.Her mild colic magically disappeared. She looks like a million bucks.
This is my show mare. She has never coliced except these two episodes at the fairgrounds. I used non Iodized table salt. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 8696
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 2, 2003 - 4:54 am: | |
I apologize the cases sounded related. Iodized salt may increase a horse's drinking but it also causes an increase in water need to excrete out the excess salt: it does not help increase fecal water content. Unless you can see a clear reason for this place to cause your horse distress I believe this was just coincidence.
What type impaction did the veterinarian palpate?
DrO |
kerry
Member
Username: Parfait
Post Number: 54
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jul 2, 2003 - 11:01 am: | |
I know that you have said that forage holds fluid in the bowel. Is that it then? My vet(and Equus)said if I wanted to increase the total water consumption I would have to change to body chemistry so to speak, of the horse and temporarily increase her intake of water so that's what she has been getting. Non Iodized salt, lite salt (3:1 ratio){I've been giving 1 1/2t 2x/day} and some gatorade if its really hot. I have done this for a short duration as I said to get her to this show where I know she doesn't drink(although she *did* drink quite a bit this time). So if this route pulls more fluid out of her bowel, then what's a gal to do?
The show vet, who didn't even have time to tube her, just sedated her, said no bands no twists and said it felt like sawdust. I brought her home and treated her here, at the Ritz. This mare is going to be travelling several thousand miles to a big show and needs to be "show ready". How can I help her?
The funniest part is that last show, I spaced out, forgot ALL her grain and the plethora of suppliments that I give her. The first night, I ended up giving her Rabbit pellets and corn oil that I bought at Safeway in the middle of the night and she was snorty and fine and won her classes. LOL!
Thanks!
Kerry |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 8703
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 3, 2003 - 6:57 am: | |
Adopting a routine and stablizing the management so that it is the same at home as it is at the show is the best way to prevent traveling colic. Certainly the biggest component of this is for water to be available whenever possible and for the forage amount and quality to be kept as high and steady as your conditioning regimen allow.
DrO
|
kerry
Member
Username: Parfait
Post Number: 55
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, Jul 3, 2003 - 6:03 pm: | |
Dr. O.
Thanks for your response. I do go to lengths to make the routine and food the same--to the extent of taking her buckets with us so she doesn't change them. I took her back to the fairgrounds again for an overnight to see if she could make her championship class. She had rested at home and was checked out fit and was bucking and feeling good at any rate.
We brought mats, banked her stall, brought our water and had someone sleep with her. By this a.m. she was stressing again. Kicking her back feet and wringing her tail. For some reason she just doesn't like it there. When I first put her in the stall she pinned her ears. Go figure. She is in season but...
Kerry |
