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Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Saturday, Aug 24, 2002 - 12:56 pm: |   |
DrO, I can hardly believe this is happening, but my four year old Morgan gelding, Indy, has been diagnosed with bladder stones. I had called in my vet because of increasingly frequent, strained urination, and he found the stones on palpation. The mass seems to be composed of two hard stones the size of baseballs.
My vet discussed the situation with Purdue, and they said these were too large to attempt ultrasound treatment and must be removed surgically. We have an appointment to have the surgery done on Monday morning at Purdue. They say Indy will have to stay five days post-op.
As I said, I can't believe this is happening. Indy feels fine, and there was no blood in his urine. I guess my questions are - how long would it take for stones this large to form, and what in the world would cause such a thing in a horse so young? I suppose part of the answer will depend on the composition of the stones, right?
Have you had experience with this kind of thing? ANY advice, suggestions would be most welcome  I'm really scared. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Monday, Aug 26, 2002 - 6:48 am: | |
Right...my advice Suzanne is to take it easy. The surgery is routine and complications infrequent. Once we find out what they are composed of then we can make a stab at your other quesions. Let us know when you find out.
DrO |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 29, 2002 - 8:54 pm: | |
Well, DrO, you might want to move this discussion - it wasn’t bladder stones. After much palpating, probing with ultrasound and finally an endoscope, the docs at Purdue were 99% sure it was an internal abscess. Yesterday they did a laparoscopy that confirmed it. Unfortunately, the mass is so hard that they couldn’t aspirate it to get a culture and so far behind the pelvis that resecting it out is pretty much out of the question.
The abscess is attached to the spermatic cord on the left side, and given that we had that serous cord on the right side and Indy’s blood work indicates a long standing inflammatory process, my surgeon feels quite certain this too started with Indy’s castration in April. The right side checks out okay now, but this…
Since they couldn’t get a culture, they started Indy on Baytril IV yesterday after he came out of surgery. They are going to keep this up for at least two weeks. I guess we’ll be playing it pretty much by ear, but Indy is going to be on antibiotics for quite a while, even in a best case scenario.
Did I say I can’t BELIEVE this is happening? My only consolation at this point is that Indy doesn’t FEEL sick. He was scarfing down hay yesterday as soon as they gave him some after surgery. They promised to call every day and report on him. Today’s report was all to the good - he’s eating, drinking, pooping, TPR fine.
So, that’s all I know for now. Any thoughts would be MOST welcome. I’ll keep you posted.
Suzy |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Friday, Aug 30, 2002 - 6:40 am: | |
I am sorry to hear about the change is diagnosis, this is more serious. How about urination, has the straining subsided? Has Purdue got any contingency plans if the antibiotics fail: could the abscess be reached from the perineum, dissecting down between the rectum and pelvis?
Concerning the use of Baytril (enrofloxacin) I was not aware that it penetrated absceses well but since they have pharmacologist on staff, I would imagine they have consulted as to the best choice here.
DrO |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Friday, Aug 30, 2002 - 12:59 pm: | |
Hi, DrO ~
Yes, the straining does seem to have subsided. Actually, it seemed better before we even went to Purdue. I don't know why exactly, but Indy was running a temp of 101 the first time my own vet examined him, so he put him on TMP/SMZ, and his urination seemed more normal after that. He never had an elevated temp after that either.
No, Purdue does NOT - at this time anyway - have a back up plan if the long term antibiotics fail. That's what frightens me SO much They feel that what they would have to do surgically to get it out would be - to use my surgeon's word - "heroic" and dangerous. A very last resort kind of thing. I think the problem is that the mass is so large and hard and immovable. My surgeon said Indy's body has been in the process of walling the infection off - like a pearl in an oyster. I guess it did too good a job of it
Of course, my surgeon was very disappointed not to be able to get a culture so he would know exactly what he was fighting, but he said he felt Baytril had a good chance of penetrating the mass. He said if it didn't, there were other choices, but he didn't say specifically what he would go to if the Baytril doesn't help.
DrO, I'm not exaggerating when I say I'm just beside myself - worrying about my horse - he's only four years old! - and needing answers as to HOW this could happen. I REALLY don't think I can bear it if I lose this guy.
I'll keep you updated. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 1, 2002 - 11:01 am: | |
Suzanne you need to buck up a bit. I know this has been very hard and that Indy is a recent relacement for an old and valued friend but you have others that depend on you that you cannot let down. Take this a moment at a time and realize that at this point things are still probably going to work out but that there are no guarantees.
DrO |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 2, 2002 - 1:12 am: | |
Sorry, DrO, I guess I just don't feel very "bucky" right now. And, actually, there isn't anyone who really depends upon me, especially since I just lost my 17 year old dog too - this has NOT been a good year
I was just re-reading your article on abscesses, particularly deep ones, and it stressed that fibrinogen was one of the best indicators of what was going on. Indy's fibrinogen was smack in the middle of the normal range. Isn't that rather strange? In fact, even his counts that were abnormal - RBC, WBC, Hematocrit - were just barely outside of the lab normals. And he feels wonderful, believe me. I was there when they were taking him in for the laparoscopy, and of course, he'd been deprived for food for some hours. As we were walking him from his stall to the surgery, he was making a serious attempt to eat his lead rope! He had everyone cracking up. My husband even got a picture.
Well, I'm just rattling on here - must be the stress. I haven't had a chance to ask my surgeon about your thought of going in through the perineum, but I certainly will. He seems very good and has probably already thought of that, but it never hurts to ask.
I have no problem keeping Indy on antibiotics for as long as it takes - 6 months, whatever, as long as they are working. We'll just take out another loan against the house - we used the first loan to pay DJ's vet bills  |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 2, 2002 - 11:13 am: | |
Thanks for the smilie at the end, hold on to that and I suspect there are more people and animals depending on you than you realize right now.
While talking to him ask him wht would be the harm in tryng the much more economical track of using TMP/SMZ at home for long term along with frequent monitoring of the abscess with your vets ultrasound first, and if this did not work then resorting to the expensive alternatives. After all he responded to this one time.
DrO |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 3, 2002 - 10:51 pm: | |
Hi DrO ~ Went to see Indy today, so it's a LITTLE easier to muster a smile  , although typing it is still a lot easier than doing it, I'm afraid.
Talked to Indy's doc about your thought of going in through the perineum, and he said that it was a valid suggestion, but he still thought his best chance of getting to the thing would be through an abdominal incision. He said, yes, it would be tough, but if his general health were at stake, it would be worth trying. He also said if you had any more suggestions, for me not to be shy about talking to him about them. He is very kind, friendly and understands our concern.
The reason he wants him on Baytril now is probably partly our Oh-My-God-do-whatever-it-takes attitude, but also, he wanted to hit it with the "big guns" since Indy was already down there, and he could do it IV. Also, Indy had already been on the TMP/SMZ for over a week before we brought him down. I do think he's leaning toward using the TMP/SMZ after releasing him though.
They are not even going to try running any tests until late next week, giving it a full two weeks. Then he will ultra sound it and do more blood. He said that we have a number of things going for us - the mass is in a relatively unobtrusive place, and while it does put a little pressure on his bladder, it's an irritant rather than a life-threatening thing. Also, there are no adhesions to the body cavity or intestines - he said he HATED those.
As for Indy himself, he was in fine fettle and glad to get out of the stall for a longer period of time that his student "attendent" is able to give him. We grazed, and when the bugs drove us back inside, we walked around the admitting area, sniffing and exploring. He even conned one surgeon out of the apple he was eating That's my boy! Interestingly, around Purdue Indy is known as "the post-castration abscess."
I do have a question. This - thing - is as hard as concrete they say - the body's way of walling it off. I can understand medication keeping it from getting bigger, but what is the mechanism by which the meds are supposed to make it shrink?
Just wanted to update you, DrO. If you have any more thoughts, toss 'em out! I will pass them on. Indy's doc is named Dr. Lescun, by the way. Super guy
Thanks for being here!
Suzy and Indy |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Sep 4, 2002 - 7:16 am: | |
It must diffuse from the capillaries into the tissue and kill the bacteria there. Once the active inflamation has stopped the body tends to shrink the fibrous capsule through a combination of necrosis of dead tissue, reorganization of granulation tissue, contraction, and eventually forms scar tissue, hopefully much smaller that the current mass.
DrO |
Suzanne Moore (Suzym)
| | Posted on Wednesday, Sep 4, 2002 - 10:56 pm: | |
Thank you for the explanation, DrO This would be rather a slow process, right? Especially with something this dense and hard? So, when his doctors at Purdue run tests next week, will they be looking for lack of growth rather than actual shrinkage? And his blood work of course.
Kim, his student slave, er, attendant, calls every day just to update us. So far, so good.
Thanks again,
Suzy |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM (Dro)
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 5, 2002 - 6:41 am: | |
Yes pretty slow.
DrO |
Shelley Wiley
Member
Username: Swiley
Post Number: 84
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 9, 2002 - 1:12 pm: | |
Suzanne, you are so brave. When someone opens their hearts to these animals like you do, it makes you very vunerable. Its much easier to be detached, but you miss all the good stuff.
Shelley |
Suzanne Moore
Member
Username: Suzym
Post Number: 287
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Sep 9, 2002 - 1:42 pm: | |
Thank you, Shelley. I'm not sure I feel very brave right now - the waiting and not knowing if the antibiotics are going to work is really hard
We are going back to visit Indy tomorrow, but I don't think I will have any useful information until later in the week. When I have anything, I will post.
Your support means more than I can express.
Suzy |
Suzanne Moore
Member
Username: Suzym
Post Number: 289
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 12, 2002 - 12:55 pm: | |
DrO and Everyone ~ I have GREAT news! The Baytril is working. Indy's doctor at Purdue just called. They had just done an ultrasound on the mass, and it is only about one half the size it was before and much more "normal" feeling on palpation. Indy's blood work was almost back to normal as well. Dr. Lescun said he was VERY pleased. He's not the only one
The plan is to have Indy stay there on his IV Baytril until next Wednesday, then they will switch him to the TMP/SMZ. They will monitor the change over. Dr. L said if he didn't spike a fever in the first 48 hours, that was a good indicator the TMP/SMZ was going to work. If
all goes well with that, we would plan to bring him home on Saturday afternoon - which would give them another morning temp check. No matter
what, we will be going back down to visit him on Tuesday.
Tuesday seems to be our Visit Indy Day :o) We went down last Tuesday and had a wonderful visit. Indy has snookered all the students into giving him extra attention and treats. I think he's more spoiled now than when we took him down - hard as that may be to believe!
It's been a dreadful two weeks, but worth it all now! I'll keep you posted
Suzy
|
Elizabeth Donahue
Member
Username: Paul303
Post Number: 272
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 12, 2002 - 8:06 pm: | |
Suzy: Thank you for the updates, especially the good news! It always seems to me, that the horses that are going to need special care, always seem to end up with the right owners. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 6901
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 13, 2002 - 5:47 am: | |
That is delightful to hear Suzy
DrO |
Suzanne Moore
Member
Username: Suzym
Post Number: 290
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 13, 2002 - 11:28 am: | |
It sure IS delightful, DrO Apparently the mass is going through exactly the process you described to me. Dr. Lescun also said it looked more organized on the ultrasound. It will be great to have him home - IF those vet students will give him back
Suzy |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 69
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 13, 2002 - 11:37 am: | |
Suzy, I'm so happy for you, what wonderful news!!!! |
Suzanne Moore
Member
Username: Suzym
Post Number: 291
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 13, 2002 - 12:49 pm: | |
Thank you, Aileen and Elizabeth. It IS wonderful news indeed! |
Suzanne Moore
Member
Username: Suzym
Post Number: 293
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Sep 18, 2002 - 11:40 pm: | |
Hi DrO and Everyone ~ The plan is still to bring Indy home Saturday, but we went down to visit him yesterday. Thought you all might enjoy this picture my hubby took of Indy and me
Suzy and Indy |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 6952
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 19, 2002 - 6:43 am: | |
Worth a thousand words, I would say.
DrO |
Aileen
Member
Username: Sunny66
Post Number: 70
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 19, 2002 - 10:44 am: | |
I agree!!! Your picture gave me goosebumps! |
Elizabeth Donahue
Member
Username: Paul303
Post Number: 273
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 19, 2002 - 9:02 pm: | |
So happy for you! |
Liselotte F. Bradford
Member
Username: Lilo
Post Number: 62
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 20, 2002 - 1:58 pm: | |
Good luck for the future! Happy for you!
Lilo |
Suzanne Moore
Member
Username: Suzym
Post Number: 295
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 20, 2002 - 11:12 pm: | |
I'm happy you all are enjoying the picture All the vet students who have contact with Indy through the day tell me that he appears SO much happier when we are there. Funny - that's what my husband says about ME
Suzy |
Suzanne Moore
Member
Username: Suzym
Post Number: 297
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 24, 2002 - 12:02 am: | |
The Mighty Masked Morgan is home - doing what comes naturally
Suzy and Indy |
barbara c
Member
Username: Oscarvv
Post Number: 495
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 24, 2002 - 4:20 pm: | |
YIPPEE!
He is beautiful! |
Elizabeth Donahue
Member
Username: Paul303
Post Number: 276
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Sep 24, 2002 - 7:40 pm: | |
OOOOhh, wonderful! He gets more handsome in every picture. Suzy, is this it? Does he have to follow any diet or testing regimen? |
Suzanne Moore
Member
Username: Suzym
Post Number: 298
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Sep 25, 2002 - 12:26 am: | |
Hi everyone ~
I wish this WAS it, Elizabeth! No special diet, but he has to be on TMP/SMZ for a month, then we have to take him back to Purdue for another ultrasound exam of the mass. They want to make sure all is going well and that the thing is continuing to shrink. However, he is already urinating much less frequently, so the pressure on his bladder has eased He certainly seems to feel GREAT. He was flying around the pasture this afternoon, showing off for my farrier.
As far as he's concerned, he's the old Indy again, but I'm sure he won't mind making another visit to Purdue and all those vet students who kept giving him treats
He sends his best to you all
Suzy and Indy |
Suzanne Moore
Member
Username: Suzym
Post Number: 310
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 23, 2002 - 11:26 pm: | |
Hi DrO and everyone ~
We took Indy back to Purdue for his follow-up exam today. GREAT NEWS! The masses are little more than small nodules of scar tissue. In fact, Dr. Lescun had trouble even FINDING them, both on palpation and ultra sound
He gave Indy an unconditional release and said we could discontinue the antibiotics. I knew Indy has certainly been ACTING as if he felt great, and now we have confirmation.
Thank you SO much for your concern and support It DID help - a lot.
Suzy and Indy |
Elizabeth Donahue
Member
Username: Paul303
Post Number: 289
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 24, 2002 - 7:18 pm: | |
Oh wow! It's about time you have some good luck, Suzy! Thanks so much for getting back to us. |
