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  Discussion on 45 days and frustrated
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 28, 1999 - 2:06 pm:

Hi there- I have had a frustrating 2 years trying to get my mare bred. I was the one last year whose maiden mare suffered a freak breeding injury (torn uterus). She healed nicely under the watchful eye of 3 vets and I received the thumbs up to try again this year. After 4 tries she ultrasounded in with a proper sized baby at 16 days. At 35 days, however, the ultrasound showed an oval shaped baby (measuring 35 days vertically and 44 days horizontally). We were unable to get a heart beat at that time. My vet feels that one of 2 things has happened: 1) The foal has died and she is reabsorbing it 2) The foal is fine but being compressed in a uterine fold. My mare is also cramping on and off by humping her back for a few seconds and spreading her hind legs as if she is trying to expell the baby. My mare has been on Regumate, 10CC, since post-breeding on my vet's advice. I have read and shared the articles with her on Regumate's effectivenes- but she is convinced it will help my mare. My concern now is if my mare is on Regumate and has lost the foal- how can she absorb/expel it while being on Regumate? Why would she be cramping like this? Are they related?
Anyone else out there had similar problems? My mare will be US again Tuesday morning, August 31- and I guess I am trying to prepare myself either way.

Thanks in advance

Posted on Sunday, Aug 29, 1999 - 10:14 am:

I think once dead, the vesicle around the foal would rapidly dissolve. I too would not go on heart beat alone, though a good unit at this age should see it clearly. If it was possible that in breeding redamage to the vaginia occured your vet may be able to make a good case for the Regumate. The damage would cause prostaglandins to be released that may endanger the pregnancy. Regumate would prevent this type abortion.

I do not know why she might be contracting like this and do not feel it is due to the need to expel a embryo but I could be wrong. Maybe if the embryo became unattached and the uterus had worked it up to the cervix. How often does she display this behavior and has the vagina and cervix been examined for post breeding trauma?

Be sure there is no evidence of inflammatory exudate and perhaps taking her temperature every morning might be helpful at early detection of problems.
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Aug 29, 1999 - 4:42 pm:

Dr. O,
Thanks for your response. We bred her AI- no one suggests she ever be live covered again due to her initial injury (although it has healed much better than anticipated). Your thoughts on Regumate use for this mare are consistant with my vet's- although we did not breed live cover this year. We bred 3 cycles without Regumate and when her blood work demonstrated very low progesterone levels my vet recommended we try the 4th cycle with it.
The original injury happened in June last year. There is scar tissue around the left ovary- so much so that it cannot be manually manipulated and the US is barely helpful. Most of the tissue damage to my mare was done in the abdominal cavity. But, as I said, she has had a remarkable recovery. There was only very, very slight damage to the cervix- and there never was any vaginal disturbance or infection. All injuries and resulting infections were outside of the cervix and vagina, thankfully.

She is not currently running a temp. She is content and eating well. Her cervix is tight and closed, no discharge is apparent. However, she can be visibly seen cramping (humping up through the croup- for five or less seconds- several times a day. She has been doing this since her last ultrasound almost 2 weeks ago. My mare contracted while my vet watched and my vet exclaimed "What the .... is that?" so I would imagine it isn't something she's seen before either. (: (She's the best reproductive vet in the area with 25 years experience).

What if the vesicle was empty- and always has been- would the regumate continue a false pregnancy in this manner? Could she have a tubal pregnancy? What other reasons would there be for such cramping behavior?

We will ultrasound on Tuesday and I will let you know what we see. If she wasn't such a good horse, I wouldn't be trying so hard. Thanks again for your ear and advice.

Stace

Posted on Sunday, Aug 29, 1999 - 10:34 pm:

You know... as I scratched her belly tonight, I began wondering if this cramping thing could be totally unrelated to the pregnancy. Perhaps I am making an assumption that they are related- when it could be a symptom of something else... But I can't imagine what else? What should we be looking for? Any ideas prior to Tuesday AM would be appreciated.

Still pondering,

Stace

Posted on Monday, Aug 30, 1999 - 6:02 am:

Hello Stacy,
I remember you from last year, the mare with the serious tear. The embryo is visible from about day 22 onward. If there is no embryo in the vesicle by now it is not a viable pregnancy.

I can picture the dorsoflexion of the spine and spreading of the legs, as though trying to urinate with no effect. How about tail lifting do you see this too? Why not catch some urine if possible and evaluate for possible cystitis.

Good luck on the ultrasound.
DrO

Posted on Monday, Aug 30, 1999 - 10:10 am:

Thanks for your response- Yes, she does lift her tail as if to urinate- but she does not void. I will see if I can catch her urinating- but I have a feeling that seeing me running at her with a cup might get my neighbors wondering even more about me. (:

stace

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 31, 1999 - 12:55 pm:

Dr O-

Well, what a relief! She is pregnant with a healthy fetus growing well in the right horn. My vet and I were happily surprised. She shows no signs of cystitis but we have a new theory. Perhaps she is feeling pain from the stretching near or on adhesions in her original injuries in her abdomenal cavity? My vet wonders if she has some adhesions on her intestines that may be trapping gas. So, we are going to take her to the University of Minnesota for a better ultrasound to check for adhesions. All her injuries were primarly on her left side- so were glad the babies in the right horn.

I'll get back to you after the U of M ultrasound.

Thanks again,

Stace

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 1, 1999 - 7:25 am:

Hmmmmm....stretching of adhesions...I like it and consider it very possible. Can't wait to hear what they say.
DrO

Posted on Monday, Aug 27, 2001 - 10:57 pm:

Well, I certainly didn't intend to wait 2 years to respond! My mare delivered a wonderful filly on her due date in 2000. The U of M vets agreed that the adhesions were probably pulling and causing discomfort. The pregnacy continued regardless and the adhesions stretched. My mare became more comfortable and stopped displaying the dorsalflex behavior. The best news of all is that carrying that baby for 11 months really improved my mare's comfort level. The left ovary, which was difficult to manipulate, is no longer a problem. We are all happy with the results and I have a lovely palomino morgan yearling to enjoy.

I enjoy watching your site's growth having watched it from the start. I don't visit often but I know the resource is available to me- and that's a comfort! Thanks!

-Stace

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 28, 2001 - 4:42 am:

That is great Stace and thanks for the kind words.
DrO
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