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Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 228
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 1:24 am: |   |
I'm up late tonight, fretting in anticipation of my mare's vet visit in the am. We have been fighting a deep corneal ulcer since Christmas. When I got a really good look at the eye four days ago with Chelsea under anesthesia, I saw structures exposed that I had only seen in texts. I was surprised Dr. Mims didn't recommend enucleation then, but he didn't think she was down to zero chance yet. Since then, he installed the lavage, and I've been medicating her every two-six hours. Tonight I think she looks worse, but I can't be sure.
I know he will tell me the medical perspective on enucleation, but I was hoping to hear from some of you who have had it done at home. We won't be going to a veterinary hospital if the procedure is decided upon. How much pain can I expect her to be in? Should I schedule it when I have a few days off work to be with her? Will it drain much? What about phantom pain?
My heart is hurting for her. She is so very beautiful at 17yo, looks 4, such a marvelous intelligent eye - the true look of eagles. She and I went to Prelim eventing before she was stung in this same eye 10 years ago. She and the herd got into a swarm and just went nuts. I hung with her then too, and for a few years the eye looked a real horror. The current events are more sad because over the last decade she had almost completely cleared the cloudiness in the cornea. It was a wonder.
She just couldn't wait for the rye to come up, and best I can figure grazed that same eye while sticking her head at an impossible angle under the fence to cause this new injury.
I said to myself and to my horse buds that if she lost the eye, it wouldn't upset me, but now I see that it will. I'm having a little cry over it tonight. I decided it was too late for wine.
She and I still ride together, and we still will. She is a tempermental girl, but I've never met a horse who reaches more intensely for your mind while interacting. I would appreciate hearing any recovery details, especially about the owner's experience the first few days if you've had them or seen them. Thanks, Stacy |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 17506
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 7:23 am: | |
Having removed half a dozen eyes Stacy, usually here at our clinic and then taking care of them for the first few days afterward, I can tell you this is a much easier process on the horse than it appears to be for the owners. There is minimal to no drainage, the horse does not appear painful, and recovery is uneventful. I do usually put them on bute or flunixin for the first few days.
DrO |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne
Post Number: 705
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 7:38 am: | |
There is a one eyed horse name Joe who shares the paddocks with Demetrius. He is still the lead horse (when the mare let's him think that) and is just as happy, trainable, and jumps and trail rides as well as he did before his surgery. I hear his recovery was uneventful as well. So sorry to hear about your mare's eye, as you had just posted to someone else how well it had been doing since this last incident. We will be praying that whatever the vet recommends that you have strength when you need it. Dr. O is right...sometimes in hard situations Mamas have a harder time coping than their Kids (or kid horses) do! It sometimes hurts to have a big heart doesn't it?
Wishing you both the absolute best and if surgery is necessary than for a speedy recovery. Please Stacy keep us posted!
Have as good of a day as you can!
Sending Hugs,
Corinne |
Fran C
Member
Username: Canter
Post Number: 815
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 8:23 am: | |
Stacy,
I wanted to send you best wishes as you cope with this. It must be so difficult to watch your beloved mare go through this. Quite a few years back, a horse at the barn I boarded at had her eye removed. Unfortunately, I don't remember all the details. But I do remember that the mare adjusted very well and continued to lead a very normal life. The one adjustment the owner made was to pad the sides of the horse's stall opening so that she would be in no danger of banging her head on it as she went into the stall or hung her head outside the stall.
Wishing you and your mare the best~ |
Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: Redalert
Post Number: 461
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 9:12 am: | |
Hi Stacey
I have a wonderful horse who had a fungal infection, who, after a corneal transplant, and months of lavage system and treatment (including two more surgeries), had his eye removed. I did have it done at the veterinary hospital, but he was home two days later, and never looked back(no pun intended). Enucleation was the best thing I did for him, and there was such relief for him within days. I saw him right after the surgery, and there was some swelling which subsided after a couple of days, and he remained on Banamine for a week, but I wish I had done it for him sooner! He has no special care now, only bumped it once, and it did swell a bit then. But he lives a completely normal life, in every way, and is now free of that pain.
I did have a ball inserted under the lid for cosmetic reasons ( for the horse show), which I think adds further risk for infection, problems further on down the line, even, so I'm still keeping my fingers crossed there, however, the simple removal of the eye and closing of the lids, is a pretty simple procedure, and, like Dr. O said, I think it hurt me more than it did my horse! I still miss his eye, but I'm pretty sure he is glad it is gone!
Hope this helps, even a little bit, as I know how hard it is to watch your horse suffer with eye pain! God bless you in your efforts.
Nancy |
Ilona A
Member
Username: Ilona
Post Number: 363
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 9:51 am: | |
Stacy,
Every-one has been so encouraging and clearly the results are good for your mare.
What I remember from previous threads about horses with one eye is that your voice becomes a most essential tool. That when you approach from the blind side its helpful to notify through speaking that you are approaching and too, your increasing proximity so as not to startle her. It may take a while for her to adjust to move her head further in order to see more completely. I believe her attention to sound will increase as it does with humans whose eyesight is limited.
I wish you both a successful adjustment. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 2103
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 9:57 am: | |
Stacy, I'm so sorry about your mare. I think, however, this will be worse on you in a way. From other posts on HA in the past, the horses seem to adapt very well. Best of luck to both of you. I hope you were able to get some sleep. I know what you're going through with the worry. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 2104
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 15, 2007 - 10:02 am: | |
btw - the little dog we rescued over Christmas had to have one of his eyes removed and it hasn't fazed him. There was a brief adjustment period where he had to learn to turn his head a little to see things on his left side. Now he bounces around like crazy and you'd never know he lacked his eye. |
Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 230
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 - 9:49 am: | |
Thanks to Dr.O and everyone for your reassuring words. Yesterday Chelsea's eye was not worse, it seems to have stabilized and the blood vessels are just 2mm shy of the edge of the deep stromal defect. I have decided to hang with it as long as the vet and I, and Chelse, still think it is reasonable and we aren't going backwards. She seems in high spirits this am as the cold weather some of you are suffering in drifts a little south. I will try to attach some "before" pics, then maybe some "afters" if I can figure it out. Thank you so much to everyone for the support. Stacy |
Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 231
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 16, 2007 - 9:59 am: | |
WOw, do I feel stupid. At least I am post-call, so I do have an excuse. I cannot seem to get the pics resized in any acceptable way. I cropped, but now I am asked to change the color depth(!) which is just out of my league. I tried to send them to my profile, 'cause I got a photo there a long time ago, but not today. Hmmm, I'll try again after some sleep... Stacy |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne
Post Number: 718
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 18, 2007 - 4:12 am: | |
Hello all. I have a resizing program one of you sent me last year and will be posting pics of Chelsea for Stacy when I get home from work at noon. It's 0310 and so I am off to work for now.
By they way they are a great looking pair, Stacy and her mare!
Have a great day!
v/r
Corinne |
Judy Henslee
Member
Username: Judyhens
Post Number: 6
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 18, 2007 - 3:53 pm: | |
Hi Stacy,
Our son is an anesthesiology resident doing 36 hr on call shifts. We understand how tiring that can be!
Our thoughts and prayers will be with you and your horse. We had a mare who lost an eye years ago. The only problem we had to watch out for was not getting stepped on if we led her or brushed her on the blind side. We also always spoke to her when approaching from the blind side. She was a dominant mare and we wanted to be certain she knew it was us and not another horse approaching.
I did read an article recently on use of a flap of something (amnion???) over deep, unresolving eye ulcers to protect them during healing. Apparently this was a last ditch effort, but I believe it did work well in some cases. Possibly a study out of Fla????
Anyway, Dr. O. may know more about this.
Again,
Our thoughts and prayers are with you and Chelsea.
Judy |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne
Post Number: 720
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 18, 2007 - 6:54 pm: | |
This is one of Stacy and Chelsea. Great looking pair huh? I am still trying to send the one of her eye before the latest injury...
v/r
Corinne |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne
Post Number: 721
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 18, 2007 - 6:57 pm: | |
Before the latest eye injury....beautiful mare!
 |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne
Post Number: 722
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 18, 2007 - 7:02 pm: | |
One last one of the two eventing. Sorry about the black space but they were included on one picture and I was able to crop cut and paste but couldn't delete the black space....I am not good at this either! LOL
 |
Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 233
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 18, 2007 - 9:09 pm: | |
Corinne thanks so much for doing this for me. We took pics tonight of the eye - she is keeping it open a good bit now - and if you will tell me by e-mail how you mastered this issue, maybe I could post them tomorrow. It still looks pretty awful, but she is in less pain even with less Banamine. Her guardian mask is due in tomorrow, and we managed to find ophthalmic diflucan for anti-fungal coverage. My continued thanks for all of your supportive comments that make an experience like this less lonely. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 2123
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 18, 2007 - 11:26 pm: | |
Stacey, beautiful mare is right! The pictures of her jumping just made be break out in a big smile. She just is sailing over the jump and looks like she really enjoying it. I wish her (and you) the best. |
katrina
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 744
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 19, 2007 - 7:07 am: | |
Beautiful mare. She looks like she loves it. Great pictures |
Michelle Boake
Member
Username: Rein
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 19, 2007 - 11:53 am: | |
Good morning, we had a foal with a melting ulcer and our vet, after consulting with others, decided to sew his inner eye lid shut and ran a small tube into it and taped it down his mane. This was so we could run his meds onto his eye. I'm sorry it was so long ago I can't recall what we used or exactaly how long we did this for. I believe he was sewn shut a good 2 - 3 weeks. The ulcer healed with just a tiny white dot of scaring. Good luck to you! |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne
Post Number: 723
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 19, 2007 - 2:21 pm: | |
Stacy....about a year ago someone sent me irfan view to be able to size things for HA. It was a free download. I don't know how to send it to you but google it and download, then open it, go to file and open your pic, then under edit you can resize. Any time, however, I will be more than happy to post pics for you. In the mean time until you figure things out, send the latest pics to me and after a quick nap (I worked again at 0330) I will post.
Hope she is hanging in there and she is liking her guardian mask. |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne
Post Number: 726
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 19, 2007 - 6:30 pm: | |
Here ya go guys. Here is Chelsea with her irrigation and med administration tube. Hopefully it will be less stressful for her during medication times and less stressful for Stacy who has very long hours at work. Good luck Chelsea. We are praying you have the best possible outcome!
 |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne
Post Number: 727
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 19, 2007 - 6:34 pm: | |
 |
Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 234
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 19, 2007 - 7:09 pm: | |
Thanks so much again, Corinne. I am in your debt. Dr. O, have you ever seen such an ulcer heal over? My vet is pretty new out of school, so he has only ever seen things like this treated with flaps or grafts. I had decided not to go that route with her, partly due to cost for a 17yo who is mostly retired, but also due to the unpredictable nature of the flaps at this point in their evolution. Nancy, if you are still reading this, how long did your horse go before you made the surgical choice? We did discuss sewing the lids shut but Dr. Mims said he usually has to take them apart in a few days as the horses were very irritated and often would rub the eye to the point of damaging it more. As in human medicine, every care option has negative and positive outcomes - so far we are improving in tiny steps. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: Hwood
Post Number: 1734
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 19, 2007 - 7:21 pm: | |
Wow . . . really interesting. I'm in awe of what can be done in medicine. Lovely mare, Stacy. Glad she has you to love her. |
Ann
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 1115
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 19, 2007 - 8:00 pm: | |
Thanks for the pictures, I had no picture in my minds eye what you were talking about.. This helps..
sending healing thoughts your way..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.. |
Michelle Boake
Member
Username: Rein
Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 19, 2007 - 10:03 pm: | |
My colt never rubbed at his eye, perhaps different meds took care of that. His stayed for at least 2 weeks if not three. May be worth a try? |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 2125
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 19, 2007 - 10:30 pm: | |
This is a learning experience; I also thank you for the pictures.
Michelle, what is a "melting ulcer?" I've never heard the term. |
Michelle Boake
Member
Username: Rein
Post Number: 8
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 - 1:13 am: | |
Sara,
It was very much like the pictures here. That was the term the vet used, maybe the name is the same as here. Started as a tiny, what appeared to be white spot, but was actually a hole in the eye. I guess the term "melting" was because it grew bigger and melted the eye away. Never did get as big as the pictures above. I didn't think at the time to get pictures until later with his eye sewn. Hope that explains it? |
Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 235
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 - 8:17 am: | |
Dr. O, I don't know if you can see this, but at the bottom of the corneal defect there is a faint haziness that stops in a horizontal line. This was almost imagined 4 days ago, now it is clearly present. It looks most like a hyphema, but not bloody, more hazy. My vet does not know what it is. I thought maybe PMNS or sediment?
On the sedated exam before I started this thread, the inner membrane was bulging into the stromal defect, almost prolapsed. Now that is definitely better, so although it does look awful, that is why we are a little more optimistic about it. It is really an up and down process for the human emotions, I'm trying to stay positive.
Sara, from what I've read, the term melting ulcer is mostly used when beta-hemolytic strep are the infective agent, as the cornea sloughs away. That certainly happened to Chesle, and it was overnight. I'm sure Dr. O can tell us more.
Thank you, Stacy |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 2134
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 - 9:11 am: | |
Thank you Stacy and Michelle. This is all new to me (thank goodness!) |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 17560
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 - 10:39 am: | |
I can't make it out in the photo but what you describe sounds like sedimented fibrin and/or WBC's in the anterior chamber, this would be expected with such a serious problem.
There are a number of organisms that cause melting ulcers and you can learn more about this all too common very serious problem in horses in Corneal Ulcers, Fungal and Bacterial Keratitis in the Eye Diseases Topic.
DrO |
Fran C
Member
Username: Canter
Post Number: 824
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 - 10:47 am: | |
Fascinating pix - thanks for sharing. How do you keep Chelsea from rubbing the tube out?
Continued best wishes! |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: Corinne
Post Number: 729
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 - 1:22 pm: | |
Yes very facinating...I somehow had a different picture of the lavage set up in my head until I saw it. I somehow thought it would be attached to the eye around the inner or outer canthus as opposed to being inserted into the skin beneath the bottom eye lid. Yes, Stacy, I see it's sutured in and affixed into her mane, how do you keep her from rubbing it out? |
Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 236
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 20, 2007 - 10:27 pm: | |
It was placed via trocar through the bottom lid. It has made an incredible difference in ease of medication. If any of you are ever caring for an eye problem and are offered this by your vet, I'd say take it for sure. She does anticipate what I am about to do as I approach the heplock braided into her mane, but I can hold her halter with one hand to keep her from rubbing as she feels the meds go in. The .5cc of air I push through to clear the line of the meds seems to bother her the most. During turnout, she doesn't want to rub it much, as she has a mask on and reacts if the mask touches the guard hairs around her eye. |
Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 244
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 8:53 am: | |
Wish us luck with surgery - we are to have the eye removed this am at 0900. I am nervous and relieved. In the last 24 hrs more of the anterior cornea sloughed off, and Chelse let me know she had had enough. The first time she began to shake when I approached her lavage to put in the meds, I called my vet to schedule the enucleation. Thanks for the support of Dr.O and all members to make our ordeal less lonely. Stacy |
Nancy S. Kaplan
Member
Username: redalert
Post Number: 472
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 9:31 am: | |
Stacy
Boy, your pictures of the SPL brought back memories, though "mine" came in at the top of the eye rather than under. At any rate, I feel like you will be very happy, in time with your decision to take the eye out.
She is a beautiful mare, and, if the two of you were good communicators before the eye injury, then you will be good together again, after!
Best of luck to you and your pretty mare, from someone who has "been there!" |
Ilona A
Member
Username: ilona
Post Number: 407
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 9:41 am: | |
Stacy,
I know it is hard, but too, that it will be better for Chelse. They are wonderful animals with great adaptability and resilience. By the way so are humans! She'll be just fine...don't forget to speak to her from her un-sighted side. (I'm sure you won't, its so basic, just a new habit to get into.)
Please let us know the results. |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: corinne
Post Number: 766
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 10:15 am: | |
Stacy...my prayers and wishes for luck are with you and I am glad that Chelse was brave enough to make the decision for you. Animals are wonderful that way aren't they? In times of stress and pain when we don't know what to do sometimes all we have to do is look to them for the answers and they give them to us to ease our broken hearts all the while in pain themselves. These are indeed some of the most magnificant creatures on earth. Good luck. I have a lesson this afternoon but will be online. I will email you my phone number if you need to chat this evening. I should be home after 7:30.
Take care. You are doing the best for her! |
Michelle Boake
Member
Username: rein
Post Number: 18
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 12:16 pm: | |
My best to you both. A friend had a gelding missing one eye from cancer and they got along great, he even continued to rope off of him. |
Fran C
Member
Username: canter
Post Number: 847
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 12:48 pm: | |
Best wishes, Stacy! |
KATHLEEN WHEAT
Member
Username: kathleen
Post Number: 624
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jan 30, 2007 - 8:54 pm: | |
Stacy,
Our Arab gelding Yogi had his eye removed recently and we are so glad we had it done. He is no longer in pain and is his old self again. Good luck.
Kathleen |
Stacy Upshaw
Member
Username: 36541
Post Number: 245
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Jan 31, 2007 - 8:46 am: | |
Happy to report that the enucleation went smoothly. Recovery from general anesthesia was a bit hairy, took an hour of her staggering around the field before we could get her steady on her feet with us trying to protect both eyes all the while. I offered my vet the use of the inversion table after it was all done! I had very supportive help from my main horse bud Chrissie - I am so fortunate to have that wonderful friendship.
This morning I am mainly relieved, although a little concerned that she continues to occasionally flinch away from the right side, even with no stimulus. I am letting her graze on her regular schedule, as that is when she acts most normally. I am happy to be through the procedure, and hopeful for an uneventful recovery. We'll keep you posted, perhaps some new pics in a few weeks. Thanks to all, Stacy |
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