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Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 535
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 22, 2007 - 12:16 pm: |   |
I hope this works - Levi was diagnosed with WDL on Tues 2/20 The vet removed a large amount of hoof. He also has sidebones, his foot is collapsing onto the outside because of instability within his hoof wall, and he has rotation. I hope we finally got to the bottom of this and there is hope for my boy
 |
Aileen
Member
Username: sunny66
Post Number: 1654
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 22, 2007 - 12:43 pm: | |
Hugs to you Susan! Sending positive healing thoughts to Levi and prayers for strength to you! |
Shirley Johnson
Member
Username: shirl
Post Number: 453
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 22, 2007 - 3:28 pm: | |
Susan, Positive thoughts and prayers going your way. It's terrible as a "horse mom" to not be able to simply "fix it".
Best to you and Levi,
Shirl |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 538
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 22, 2007 - 5:11 pm: | |
Dr. O, one other quick question. My farrier had sold me this product called Farriers Hoof, a few months ago. The ingredients are:
Ionizede Copper .134%
Ionized Zinc .700%
Non Ionized surfacant 1.400%
Inert Material 97.770%
I tried to call the vet who worked on Levi, but he is out of town, my luck,
I sprayed this on his foot and used a tooth brush to clean it really good,(Sprayed the toothbrush with alcohol before and after) then dried with a paper towel, Squirted betadine in any holes and all over the pared out area, soaked cotton and duct taped his foot. I did it in the am, and then he mananged to get the door open and into the melting snow and yuck before I noticed, moisture did get onto the foot and cotton was wet. I brought him in and did the same procedure,I had him stand there for about 10 minutes to be sure his foot was dry. It is only day 2 and I am semi-crazy.
Before I use this pre spray (it is a liquid spray bottle), I thought I better make sure it would not conflict with the betadine treatment. He is brighter and eating as usual, gave him 1/2 a bute this am. putting weight on all 4, cleaned his feet and did not protest on the weight bearing of lifting his opposite foot.
Will be offering stock in a good wine, as I am sure sales will be going up the duration of treatment.
thanks
suz |
Ilona A
Member
Username: ilona
Post Number: 496
Registered: 4-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 22, 2007 - 5:36 pm: | |
Suz,
I hope this is the course that will provide permanent relief for Levi. I know its been quite a ride for you. I view WLD very differently and with much hope now after all the recent threads....it just looks so grizzly.
Take care, Ilona |
Linda Christian
Member
Username: savage
Post Number: 156
Registered: 5-2000
| | Posted on Thursday, Feb 22, 2007 - 6:02 pm: | |
Hi Susan, I had a situation like yours, I used "Fungidye" and it helped alot
http://www.healthyanimalsupply.com/fungidye.htm
And because I also needed to keep the area cleaned, I used an electric toothbrush to get into the nooks and crannies, worked like a charm!  I just made up my solutions and dipped the brush in and turned it on. |
Lee Canning
Member
Username: leec
Post Number: 82
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 23, 2007 - 12:09 am: | |
Hi Suz,
It’s me, Lee, who has Hanah (I think you got me confused with Lori on the last post you left on my thread)... I'm posting my reply back on your thread, as this is about Levi's case. I didn’t get a chance to talk to my vet today about the bute, but here are a couple of things I do remember; Hanah was never confined to a stall. She was first in a 20’x30’ paddock with a shelter where hay and water were in front of her at all times to keep her from moving around too much. Her foot was kept bandaged (changed daily) and in a boot – same as the blue one in one of my photos. When I saw her 5 days after the procedure she was weight bearing and shuffling around quite well – she did not appear horribly uncomfortable. Three weeks after the procedure she was relocated from the clinic to the vet’s house. They are about a mile from each other and Hanah was walked there (still wearing the boot) and she managed quite well. A week from then when I saw her (now a month from the procedure), the boot was off, and she was sound at the walk. She was in an area of about a quarter of an acre with another horse and she had no problems bossing him around from the time she arrived there until the time she left... She went from very lame to pasture sound a lot quicker than I thought she would. I hope knowing it may be possible for Levi to come around this quickly helps you feel better. I realize horses may each heal at different speeds for various reasons, but we must be positive and hope for the best!
Lee C |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 17847
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 23, 2007 - 6:02 am: | |
Susan,
the solution looks like they dipped a penny and a piece of tin in a bottle of water with a touch of detergent to create this solution. I would not want to put the zinc on sensitive tissue however it is probably harmless but I would put a little betadine on a brush to clean with.
Linda, can you tell us what the ingredients and concentration of the Fungidye is? I went to the link and tried several other links but nowhere can I find the ingredients.
Susan have they done the derotation that is marked off in the last radiograph above?
DrO |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 540
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 23, 2007 - 8:23 am: | |
Thanks Dr. O, I will scrub with the betadine then. It is amazing how companies take advantage of peoples distress to make a buck.
The doc did not want to work on the derotation until he grew a little more foot. He and the farrier that works with him discussed this, and decided he would not have much to nail to. The farrier said he could nail on one side, and to the back of the heel, and glue the rest. He has been at this degree of rotation for probably 5 months now, so he is to go back up in 4 weeks, then he will put him in a raised heel shoe again.
He had just been trimmed 1 week before going to the vet in S.D.
suz |
Linda Christian
Member
Username: savage
Post Number: 157
Registered: 5-2000
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 23, 2007 - 4:10 pm: | |
Dr.O, this is all that I found concerning the ingredients;
Ingredients: Chemotherapeutic agents, Organic trypanocide dyes. It does not contain formaldehyde or copper sulfate. Acriflavine HCL, Gentian Violet.
I don't have a bottle of it handy to actually read from it.
My vet and farrier prescribed this when my boy had a mild resection done to help in keeping the cut out areas protected. |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 542
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, Feb 23, 2007 - 7:06 pm: | |
Thanks so much to all of you for your support. My Levi is such a trooper. He patiently stands there, munching his hay, while I mess with his foot. I think he thinks this is the only way life is for him.
He is strangely almost completely sound today. Walked him on concrete, no gimp at all. No bute today, I gave him 1/2 g. last night. It is very very windy here, so all the horses have been kept in all day. The site looks gruesome, but not mushy, so will keep working on daily scrubbing and bandaging.
He took off circling like a goofball, in his stall area tonight because of the wind, flipping his head, like he was feeling pretty darn good.
Phhhheeeeewwwww! Will sleep good tonight.
Talked to his vet today. He said he is worried about how unstable his foot is, and wants to wait to remove the shoe and work on the derotation till he grows a little foot, as he will have nothing to support his hoof once we remove the bottom of what is left of the resectioned area.
He has been living with this rotated foot for a while now, so I am not going to allow myself to worry about that.
You would think that the previous vet, (who yelled at me for "vet shopping") would have showed a little more concern over the fact that we were not improving the rotation in 8 months or more. He just kept telling me he is doing just great. Called it "lower heel pain syndrome". Is that a code word for "I don't know what the heck is going on?" but don't want you to know that. He had the nerve to preach to me at one point that he spent "$100,000 on Vet School, so he thinks I should not have questioned him" All the symptoms that I and Levi presented to him, Hollow hoof sounds, breaking away hoof wall, shoes not staying on, are all in Dr. O's article, you think that would have been addressed in Hoof Care 101 don't you.
OK I've sounded off, now must move towards the future, and hopes that we are on the right track. I can't dwell on what was not done, only hope that someday I can ride this costly beast.
suz |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 17856
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Feb 24, 2007 - 7:28 am: | |
I hope this works out too suz.
Linda the methyl violet and I believe the acriflavine to a lesser extent are both tissue toxic. So while this may be useful for Thrush and WLD when there is no exposed sensitive tissue, I would prefer betadine until the tissue is completely cornified.
DrO |
Aileen
Member
Username: sunny66
Post Number: 1667
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, Feb 24, 2007 - 2:14 pm: | |
Susan, I can certainly commisserate! But I am SO glad he's feeling better |
Linda Christian
Member
Username: savage
Post Number: 158
Registered: 5-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Feb 24, 2007 - 4:34 pm: | |
Dr. O this was a while ago, so I sat and really thought about all the procedures I was doing and now remember that the vet had mentioned not to get it on an open sore on my hand and to keep it off his skin because it could burn, the main open spot had closed and was using it to help keep the remaining cut away areas protected as much as possible as I was having to do this in really wet and muddy conditions.
I also remember that I also used the betadine like you mentioned, that is where the electric tooth brush came in at that time because I was being very diligent in keep the hoof clean until everything grew out, and it was easier and faster to do that.
Thank you very much for being here and helping us all stay on the right track when our information isn't as complete as needed sometimes. |
Linda Christian
Member
Username: savage
Post Number: 159
Registered: 5-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Feb 24, 2007 - 4:51 pm: | |
Susan, it's hard to go through something like this and you are doing a great job of keeping up with it. I'ts also very important that you, the vet, and your farrier all work together as a team to create the best road of recovery as possible for your horse and seeking a vet that will be part of the team is essential.
I wish you the best, yes it's probably going to be a long haul but all the work will be worth it when he wipes his soft dirty nose all over your clean shirt and says "let's go for a ride mom" |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 543
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Feb 24, 2007 - 8:05 pm: | |
Thanks Aileen and Linda, it brought a tear to my eye when you mentioned his soft dirty nose . . ., I don't know anyone who has a coming 7 year old horse that has probably been ridden as many times in his life as he is old. Always something wrong with him. I think he just want to guarantee his life as a pasture ornament.
This AM, the tape had pulled away from his foot, but the cotton was still mushed up in the cut, and it appeared dry.
We are having a major ice storm here, electric was out for 2 hours, so horses all are kept in the barn. Makes it easier on me keeping him confined for now.
Aileen, we must introduce Levi and Brave someday, so they can talk behind our backs about what they put us through.
Linda, I do have complete confidence in this vet from South Dakota, it is so far away, and very difficult for me to get away from here, but ....... what choice do I have really.? I may have the farrier he works with work on Levi for the time being. He is triple the price of my farrier here, and rather arrogant, but I really must get this guy on the right track. Keep your fingers crossed for us.
suz |
katrina
Member
Username: kthorse
Post Number: 783
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, Feb 24, 2007 - 8:21 pm: | |
My fingers are crossed for you susan, Hugs to you both. chin up. |
Linda Christian
Member
Username: savage
Post Number: 160
Registered: 5-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Feb 24, 2007 - 11:24 pm: | |
Hi Susan, good news on it being dry. That would be tough having him (your vet) so far away, so it would be really important to actually write down things that he says about taking care of the foot etc (although you will discover that you will have turned pro after a while of doing this haha) this way you won't stress out trying to remember things, you could also ask him if there is someone he could recommend so in an emergency there would be someone closer to you that could help if he couldn't make it. The vet I had always had another vet take her place when she was gone or was dealing with another issue.
If the farrier and your vet are on the same page as far as what to do then that might be your best shot if nothing else. Remember though it isn't going to be a quick fix, this process will take some time and you really need to take one day at a time hon.
It's very frustrating I know, and it hurts us to see our kids not feel well, have a boo-boo or in pain. You are a very good mom, and you are doing a terrific job, and you will continue to do a terrific job. Good luck with the ice storm.
I also had a wonderful boy who had maladies galore starting when he was 3 but we worked together through every single one of them, some of them took as long as 2-3 years to fix up, some we couldn't fix and had to just deal with it, but it was all worth it and we had to compensate in several areas but we still had fun. |
Corinne Meadows
Member
Username: corinne
Post Number: 851
Registered: 9-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 - 9:30 am: | |
Best wishes for Levi. Keeping you all in my prayers. |
Aileen
Member
Username: sunny66
Post Number: 1673
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 - 11:28 am: | |
Fingers crossed! Yes, I think Brave and Levi would have a great time together |
Lee Canning
Member
Username: leec
Post Number: 84
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 - 12:24 pm: | |
Glad to hear you have a team working together (vet, farrier... and yourself). You've created the best circumstances you can for him to get better - the rest is up to his mind and body. Fingers and toes are crossed for you both!
Lee C |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 548
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 - 4:59 pm: | |
Thanks everyone. After being cooped up for several days, we have 6 inches of clean snow, so I let the boys out today. I wrapped Levis foot in a plastic bag and put on his old mac boot. He blasted out the door, head swinging in glee. I only let them out for about an hour to get some fresh air. HOwever the old mac boot did not keep the foot dry, when I brought him in the to change the bandage the cotton was wet. I scrubbed with betadine, and let him air dry for about 1/2 hour before re-wrapping. I took my hoof knife and scrapped at it for good measure. He is a bit gimpy today, but I am sure this is because of his instability. He seemed really good the other day, but I am sure that was from not moving around much.
Anyone have any suggestions on boots that would fit over the shoe and bandage, that I could put on temporarily to give him some turn out time.
Lee, can you find out from your vet what that blue boot was that she had on Hannah, and would it fit over a shoe. I would not want to keep it on long, to trap moisture, but just to put on when he gets out in the pen.
Linda, I have been to every vet within a hundred mile radius. That is why I was accused of Vet shopping. This guy I have to drive to, and there is no one closer that has been able to help me.
The farrier I have been working with is coming tomorrow to do my other horses. I hope we can return to him for farrier, but for now, I will have to bite the bullet and pay the farrier up in Southdakota. Rick charges $50.00 for a reset, this guy was $190 a crack.
I am going to have to sell Clyde, our paint, to afford to keep up with Levi.
Any advice on the boot, let me know.
suz |
katrina
Member
Username: kthorse
Post Number: 785
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 - 5:23 pm: | |
Susan maybe a nice fitting soaking boot. They come up pretty high. If you are only usuing it for an hour or so it might work. I have one and Blaze can walk around it quiet well. Dont know about cantering around though. they stay on pretty well. |
Lee Canning
Member
Username: leec
Post Number: 87
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 - 5:41 pm: | |
Hi Suz,
Below is a link to the boot (and others) that we used for Hanah. If it is really wet, you may not be able to do it up tight enough around the fetlock to make it completely waterproof. However, you could bandage his lower leg and use duct tape to seal the boot to the bandage. I don't know that I would use this method for long periods of time, but I'm sure an hour would be fine. Dr O might want to comment on that one...
Lee C
http://www.easycareinc.com/our_boots/easy_soakers/EasySoakers.aspx |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 549
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 - 6:41 pm: | |
I just looked up the easysoaker in www.kvvetsupply.com My sister-in-law is the VP of the company, so I try to buy stuff from them. There is another product on the same page called a hooftector heavy duty poultice boot. It goes up way higher on the leg. I wonder how that would stay on. Anyone use one of these?
If you type in the boot page or easysoaker, it will come up. What do ya all think???
suz |
katrina
Member
Username: kthorse
Post Number: 786
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 - 6:53 pm: | |
Lee thats the one I was talking about.
Susan I never tried the hoofector, I am going to the site to look them up now |
katrina
Member
Username: kthorse
Post Number: 787
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 25, 2007 - 6:56 pm: | |
The hooftector looks great. They look like they would stay on better than the easy soakers. I might just have to buy a pair. Thanks for the link |
Lee Canning
Member
Username: leec
Post Number: 89
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 26, 2007 - 11:33 pm: | |
Hey Suz,
When you get a sec, let us know how you and Levi are doing...
Lee C |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 552
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 - 1:07 pm: | |
Dr. O & Lee and everyone. I am going to try to upload pics from today. 1 week post procedure. Levi is still gimpy, but he was before, that is why we went to the the vet in the first place. I beleive this is because we are not addressing his other problems yet.
Dr. O, if you can see the 2 caverns at the top of the resection, I am dumping betadine in them, and packing. Also using a brass brush to rough it up before packing and loading up the betatdine. Anything else I should be doing?
suz
 |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 553
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 27, 2007 - 6:55 pm: | |
I was also wondering if it would be ok to put an old mac pad under Levi's foot for part of the day. It is thin rubber=shaped to the bottom of his hoof. If I could duct tape that on, as well as the stuffing the cotton on the resection. It seems that this horribly moist weather around here, even though he has been kept inside, there still seems to be moisture wicking up from the bedding, I assume. I have been changing his bandage 2 x day. I have been letting him be bandage free for about 2 hours am and 1 hour pm on a dry dirt floor. Is this OK???
suz |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 17889
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 - 6:47 am: | |
Susan, in the wet weather I would not be applying a bandage because of the difficulty keeping it dry. Why not just spray betadine on the pared away areas?
DrO |
Cheryl Kallenbach
Member
Username: cheryl
Post Number: 291
Registered: 2-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 - 9:04 am: | |
Susan - When we lived in Washington State - rain all winter every day - Lady lost the whole front of her hoof from white line - to keep it dry I bandaged it then cut off a pellet bag - really heavy duty plastic - and duct taped that on her foot. Looked really silly - but it kept her foot dry. If you don't burn pellets maybe you know someone who does.
Cheryl |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 554
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 - 5:34 pm: | |
Thanks Cheryl, I tried that today, with a safechoice bag, because it to is supposed to be heavy duty. It seemed to work great, but after 2 hours, when I got back home, the pad was ripped off, the bag was around his ankles, flopping in the wind. Did not get too wet though, as it started to sleet,and he came in the barn.
I have him drying right now, will re-wrap tonight. I don't want any poop/bedding getting jammed in there overnight.
Are those caverns or whatever they are normal? I have just been scrubbing them and dumping betadine in the hole
He is still gimpy though.
Will let you know how the new boot works out. I got the hooftector boot yesterday, but it was the size of clown boots on the poor guy. I re-ordered at smaller size. They remind me of the old fashioned rubber boots that kids use to wear with snaps. I think if the fit is right they will stay on really well.
suz |
Lee Canning
Member
Username: leec
Post Number: 91
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 28, 2007 - 11:03 pm: | |
Dr O,
I too was wondering about the 'caverns' that Susan has mentioned. Why would the outermost part of the hoof not have been removed from those areas, so they would be more exposed and more easily kept clean? Has it been done as it has because the 'design' offers some kind of additional support? The caverns bother me... I mean, it would not take much paring or grinding to eliminate them (at least by what I'm seeing in the pics) and then one could better see what's going on in those areas, in case something 'evil' starts to grow again...
Hey Suz,
Ha-ha! The 'clown boots' image reminds me of the first boot they put on Hanah when they took her shoe off before the procedure (smallest one the vet had with her at the time). The next morning it was turned completely around, so it looked like her leg was on backwards. She didn't seem to notice, but I couldn't help laughing!
Lee C |
Kristin
Member
Username: freshman
Post Number: 33
Registered: 1-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 1, 2007 - 12:28 am: | |
Susan,
Ask your vet to give you some used, empty 5-liter IV fluid bags. They are a nice size to use on the foot, very tough, and free.
If she has a large clinic, she should have an endless supply for you. An ambulatory vet should still have some for you, but I wouldn't hesitate to call a large equine practice and ask them to toss them aside for you to pick up regularly. They won't mind at all, and you'll get far more than you could ever use.
I think the fluid bags work best, but you could also ask your vet to get you some of the disposable plastic boot covers that they use for isolation cases. They are designed to be walked around on, and are fairly tough. They are sort of costly, though. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 17906
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 1, 2007 - 10:12 am: | |
Lee, from the photos I cannot really assess are there areas that are actually difficult to treat and visualize. I agree there is no reason to undercut the wall and to the degree it prevents treatment and visual assessment of ALL margins of defect whe normal wall and white line, a mistake.
DrO |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 556
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 1, 2007 - 10:30 am: | |
Dr. O, when they originally cut the foot away,the lower little cavern area began to drip blood. Is that possibly why he did not keep cutting away? He used a "bone knife" little rounded knife edge, to dig inside there. I keep roughing in up with the brass brush.
Unfortunately he is 2 hours away, we are in a blizzard, and the farrier is 4 hours away. The farrier was here on Monday, and said it looked good. But as we all know, my confidence in anyone is limited.
Will do my best to keep it clean and dry. I will keep an eye on it, and if it keeps degrading, will take him back up sooner than the 4 week suggested follow up. |
Lee Canning
Member
Username: leec
Post Number: 92
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 1, 2007 - 4:31 pm: | |
Hi Gail,
My guess is they probably did stop when it started to bleed, as they hit sensitive tissue (a good thing), Dr O...??? However, I just wondered why they didn’t remove what appears to be a ‘hood’ of outer hoof wall in those areas, which wouldn’t have been sensitive nor caused any further pain - am I right, Dr O? Although one can tell there are caverns in the photos, it is hard to tell how deep they really are – can you give us an approximate measurement of depth? Perhaps they are no big deal at all, as it sounds like you are on top of keeping the areas clean – maybe we are worrying about something that doesn’t need to be worried about...
Lee C |
Lee Canning
Member
Username: leec
Post Number: 94
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 1, 2007 - 4:37 pm: | |
Oops, sorry, I mean Suz, I'm talking to Gail on another thread and had a blonde moment
Lee C |
Susan M. Herrick
Member
Username: quatro
Post Number: 562
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, Mar 1, 2007 - 10:17 pm: | |
Lee, I did a good exam with a flashlight, and the little caverns are really only about 1/8 of an inch deep, maybe my scrubbing with the brass brush is making them a bit deeper than when the doc trimmed his foot back. I will ask that they trim that back next trip.
If I leave the packing and bandage off, his foot has really been staying dry, even walking back and forth in the bedding. I continue to wrap it during the pm, as he is standing in his deeper bedded stall, with wet bedding from his pee and poops.
The blizzard kept the UPS driver away, so no boot today.
Kristin, I will try to acquire those items if the boot does not work, but I sure hope the hooftector boot works out. My feed store had the clear boots that they use in hog confinements but they talked me out of them, saying that they are really smooth on the bottom and can be really slippery. don't need another problem to deal with on all this ice and snow.
Stay warm all
suz & Levi |
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