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Emeli
New Member
Username: Emeli
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 11, 2002 - 11:38 am: |   |
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I recently adopted a 16 year old Quarter Horse with Heaves. My Vet came out and described COPD to me and informed me that due to former mismanagement the disease is in its later and irreversible stages. We are treating with an initial course of penicillin, Prednisolone liquid, Ventipulmin liquid and Breathe Herbs. As well, we removed all the hay from the barn (our horses DO get hay outside as there is no pasture in the winter) and are only inside a well ventilated stall by the open door for a few minutes (morning and night) to be grained. This horse is very very skinny as well due to a severe allergy attack in the fall before we adopted him.
Am I forgetting anything? Any realistic advice out there as far as lifespan? He is the sweetest angel of a horse, formerly a therapy horse, and we want to keep him as happy and comfortable as possible.
Emeli |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 7283
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 11, 2002 - 4:58 pm: | |
Hello Emeli,
How did your vet determine this was an intractable case, how long has your horse been heavey?
DrO |
Emeli
Member
Username: Emeli
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 11, 2002 - 6:06 pm: | |
Our Vet noted the weight loss and listened to the lungs and then told me that he could hear a large amount of 'fluttering' and then told me that the horse would need to battle this entire life. We then began the medications. As well the horse was obviously in distress as far as rapid and heavy breathing.
Prior to this we have little info...We know the horse had been heavey for a number of years and that is why his career as a therapy horse was cut short. However, we really don't have exact dates...
Emeli
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 7285
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Nov 12, 2002 - 8:13 am: | |
He may not have meant that the horse could not be helped tremendously, even though the allergy is not curable. You cannot determine how responsive the horse may be from a simple exam and listen to the lungs. See the article » Equine Diseases » Respiratory System » Heaves & Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease » for our recommendations.
DrO |
Emeli
Member
Username: Emeli
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 13, 2002 - 1:08 pm: | |
Hello Dr. O,
After a number of days on the meds my Quarter Horse is greatly improving. I have been supplimenting his diet with beet pulp and rice bran and that seems to be helping put weight on.
To remain healthy, will he need to stay on meds his whole life?
What is your take on the new Respiratory Herbs for horses?
Also, what do horses who are not worked every day or companions only do when they are not allowed hay (particularly in the winter with no pasture) for health reasons? My guys seem to enjoy the social time of hay eating and I hate to have them just stand around...
Emeli |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 7292
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 14, 2002 - 4:18 am: | |
You must not have read the article I referenced above Emeli, it explains in great detail the treatment, management, and prognosis of COPD horses. Herbs for the treatment of COPD have been around for decades and the ones I have experimened with do not substitute for the management outlined in the article.
DrO |
Emeli
Member
Username: Emeli
Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 14, 2002 - 10:35 am: | |
Ouch Dr. O!
Your article didn't really answer my questions. Many of the herb mixtures your clients are being exposed to are being touted as NEW and are very seductive for people trying to make their horses healthy and happy. That's all. I don't dare ask about EquiPulmin, do I?
Emeli
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Administration
Board Administrator
Username: Admin
Post Number: 446
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 15, 2002 - 9:12 am: | |
No pain intended Emeli, one of my self assigned jobs here is to get y'all reading and thinking. Your most important question was, "will he need to stay on meds?" Read the paragraph under the heading Prognosis, it answers this question. Your question about how your horse is going to act while the others are eating their hay is awful hard to answer, ideally your horse will be managed as is outlined in the article, but the details depend on your particular situation.
The advertisements are seductive yes, but are their any herbal product of proven efficacy for COPD: no. Can you tell me what is in the EquiPulmin? You might run a search on the active ingredient, we have discussed dozens of drugs and herb products over the years here.
DrO |
Emeli
Member
Username: Emeli
Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, Nov 17, 2002 - 6:08 pm: | |
Hello,
This is what I could find on EquiPulmin...It was recommended to me VERY STRONGLY by a woman who initially never felt herbs to be of benefit. She was introduced to this at the racetrack where apparently it is ALWAYS the first step for heavey horses...
http://www.equi-stimlegsaver.com/equipulmin.htm
I personally don't know. However, my COPD horse is doing 100% better. He is out all day/night except for morning and night graining and on 'social hay' outside in the breeze and snow. We will reconsider this hay arrangement come spring allergy season.
Thanks, Emeli
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 7306
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 18, 2002 - 6:10 am: | |
Hello Emeli,
These are the listed ingredients of the Equipulmin from the site: Rosemary, honey, witch hazel, fenugreek seed, black seed, damiana leaves, marshmallow, sage, juniper berries, chamomile flowers, cloves, spearmint, cinnamon, thyme, potassium sorbate.
I see nothing in here that has any known efficacy against COPD, but it really does look like it would smell pretty good. I can't even say whether this is safe as there are no requirements for safety checking of herbal products and no amounts listed in the ingredient list.
If you take the position that because others use it, "it must be safe," that is fine. However DO NOT do that and ignore the management recommendations in the article. Then when your horse does better, you can believe it is the herbs, be a few dollars lighter. We take care of a half-dozen horses with COPD that are managed according to the article alone and they don't require medication of any kind. There are a lot of things done commonly at the race track that really do not make good sense, so that alone is not a dependable recommendation.
DrO |
Emeli
Member
Username: Emeli
Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Nov 18, 2002 - 11:44 am: | |
Hello DrO,
Believe me, I promise not to ignore the recommended article. In fact I believe in horses and humans alike too much emphasis is put on the cure and nothing on the prevention...
Also true about race tracks...Care to offer any gambling metaphors? (smile) Though I am sure everyone out there puts their horse health first. Thank you for all the help.
Emeli |
