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Clare
New Member
Username: Crose
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 - 10:38 am: |   |
Hello,
I was wondering if you could give me some advice please. My 22 yr old mare came in from tearing round the field yesterday 2/3 out of 5 lame. The field is quite muddy and deep in places. She has had a check ligament injury 2yrs ago so I imediately suspected a tendon problem. I hosed her leg and can feel no obvious swelling or heat down the the back of the cannon. The only heat I could feel in the leg she is lame on is in the hoof/corenary band/heel area. Again there is no obvious swelling in this area. I can see no over-reaches etc. I gave her some arnica and have applied Tensolvet (previously given to me by vet for tendon/muskaletal swelling). I was going to leave her on box rest for a few days with 15 min walk in hand morning and evening. Have you any thoughts on what this lameness could be due to? Also how long should I leave her before calling the vet? Thanks for your help |
Helen Weedon
Member
Username: Cara2
Post Number: 47
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 - 11:00 am: | |
Hi Clare,
This is spooky - my 20 year old mare went lame during a hack on Saturday and still isn't sound. She pulled up from canter into trot and I noticed her bobbing her head straight away. It was muddy but with hard going under the mud most of the time, plus a bit stoney and rough in places. It was on this type of ground that I noticed she was lame.It doesn't seem to bother her much and she is more than willing to trot. In fact you can't see any lameness if she trots fast. Like you I can't see anything obviously wrong, no heat or lumps anywhere, no obvious marks on the sole and no history of past lameness or injury and she stands up equally on her front feet. Exercise neither worsens nor improves it. I haven't called the vet either yet. I don't want to give her bute as I doubt it will work due to past experience of anti-inflammatories failing - they clashed with her anticonvulsant drugs, plus I don't want to compromise her liver which must be under considerable strain from these drugs anyway. She is due to be shod fairly soon, so I might hang on and ask the farrier for his opinion (he is a surgical farrier so above the normal level). Also like you I have given her arnica, plus other homeopathic tablets for swelling and arthritis -(hedging my bets) - sorry Dr O, I know what you think about homeopathy but I've had fantastic results in the past when conventional medicine failed! She has also had magnetic boots on 12/24hours. |
Clare
Member
Username: Crose
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 - 11:53 am: | |
Sounds like you mare may have trodden on a stone. I wish I thought the same about mine! I forgot to mention the lameness was only present in trot (v.v. slight in walk). She was sound in walk this morning and the heat is only slightly more in the lame leg than in the normal leg today. The box rest/walk/hosing is the likely advice they would give me for a tendon injury so if I do this I am hoping this won't be so much of a problem if I delay getting her to the vets. I have had good results with arnica in the past. I also hae magnotherapy boots which I bought for the last tendon injury. I also think having the horse on rubber matting helped too. I haven't given her bute yet as I don't want to mask the lameness at this stage. My worst fear is that she may have strained the tendon connections in the foot. Would a strain of this nature produce the heat I describe and no swelling? How likely is a strain here? Her previous check injury is on the upper part of her cannon bone, where the check ligament normally goes. I look forward to hearing Dr O's comments. |
Deanna Barry
Member
Username: Cassey
Post Number: 5
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Nov 27, 2002 - 12:23 pm: | |
Hi Clare,
I just read the article on founder, and I wonder if your mare's digital pulses are normal? In the article, it also stated that mild episodes of tying up can present with symtoms similar to your description.
Best of luck
|
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 7350
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 28, 2002 - 8:17 am: | |
Clare, though your history is suggestive of a tendon injury the lack of supporting clinical signs put us back to square one: an acute injury of unknown diagnosis. The lack of signs does not let out check ligament desmitis as these can be pretty occult.
If the lameness is mild, and you are willing to stall rest the horse while lame, and willing to take the small chance that it is something that needs immediate attention (nondisplaced fracture, infected joint,...) you could wait till Monday to call the vet.
You are wrong about the failure of conventional medicine Helen, remembering that good conventional medicine is often nothing more than waiting until the body repairs and not getting in the way of that process. From my point of view your horse got well inspite of your admiministration of homeopathic medications not because of it.
DrO |
Clare
Member
Username: Crose
Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Nov 28, 2002 - 8:36 am: | |
I ran the mare up again this morning she is sound in walk (though short if you turn her sharp clockwise). She is 2/5 lame in trot. There is no heat/swelling in the leg. The hoof is very slightly warmer. There is a slight digital pulse. She has a little heat and swelling to the inside of her coranary band. Her hoof is quite boxy on this foot and turns slightly outwards so you would imagine this part of the hoof is fairly weight bearing. She is not sore when you put pressure here. Prehaps she has just brushed herself in the field? The horse seems well at the moment, is bright and eating well. When she had the last tendon injury her mood was noticably changed for the first few weeks. I will keep any eye on her and certainly take her to the vet next week if there is no improvement Sun. Thankyou all for your suggestions. |
Helen Weedon
Member
Username: Cara2
Post Number: 48
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 29, 2002 - 7:50 am: | |
Hi Clare, its sounds as if she is doing a little better. Mine actually had some heat for the first time in the upper fetlock last night - right where the suspensory ligament divides so its box rest and cold water now and I think we can forget the stone theory! I just spoke to my vet on the telephone and he feels she will be ok just with that as there is no real swelling but he'll come and see her next week if necessary. Phew, I hope I've had a lucky escape.
Dr O, I expect you'll think I'm a stubborn stupid eejit, but homeopathy has worked for me and my horse and I'm sticking with it. We'll have to agree to disagree over it but at least the only harm it could do is to my bank balance. I always go for conventional medicine for my horse first, but the problem is a pharmacological one - her anticonvulsants tend to block the effect of other drugs she has been prescribed so they really don't work. Lets not argue though  |
Clare
Member
Username: Crose
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Nov 29, 2002 - 8:20 am: | |
I hope that your mare is OK. I think you have to take your time with tendon injuries, better to be safe than sorry. My mare is still unsound on tight turns but is sound at walk. I have not trotted her up again, thought I would do this on sunday and then make an appointment to see the vet Mon if she is no better. Dr O does it follow the less heat/swelling there is the less damage has been done to the tendon? Does this also reflect in the healing time needed? Back to my question before, how likely is it for the tendons to go in the feet? A friend of mines mare had this problem, there was no heat/swelling, but she was much lamer than my mare.
I am also sceptical about some homeopathy, I have tried some things on my horse in the past that I believe have not worked, and others, such as arnica, which I have found very useful. I would still turn to conventional medicine first. |
Clare
Member
Username: Crose
Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Dec 2, 2002 - 5:04 am: | |
I ran the mare up on Sat and Sun. She was markedly improved, but was still 2/5 lame on Sat. Yesterday she was markedly improved from the Sat, and probably between 1/2 /5 lame. Any further ideas. I think I will probably take her to the vets tomorrow or Wed. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 7368
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Dec 2, 2002 - 7:44 am: | |
Before answering your question remember we do not have a diagnosis on your horse. Concerning your question about severity of clinical signs and its relation to prognosis with flexor tendon injuries: yes with acute injuries there is a close relationship but proper treatment is critical to maximize the prognosis. However with chronic injuries and injuries to some of the smaller tendons and ligaments there is not always such a good correlation.
DrO |
Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen
Post Number: 264
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Dec 2, 2002 - 2:20 pm: | |
Clare, you need to take a deep breath, force that wallet open and call the vet... but I did have one thought.
Thorn injury (especially blackthorn)? Sometimes there's no visible injury because it's a puncture wound but the resulting infection can be quite deepseated. My mare has had this before and it took forever to cure - just marginal lameness and heat, eventually sorted when my vet got pissed off with it going on forever and put her on the special antibiotics for anaerobic infections - that fixed it in 4 days.
But if I were you I'd get a vet at this stage. You've tried wait and see...
All the best
Imogen |
Clare
Member
Username: Crose
Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Dec 24, 2002 - 6:00 am: | |
Dear All,
Thought I would let you all know how my mare is getting on. I took her to the vets 2 weeks ago. She was very mildly lame in trot. They pain is above the fetlock joint so the tendon was scanned and no new damage was observed. The disgnosis I have is very general. The vet feels that the most likely cause is that she has some scar tissue in her tendons from the previous injury. As she is getting older the tendon losses it's ability to compensate for this scar tissue. She simply over did it in the field and was subsequently lame. I had to turn her out for a week on bute and ride her at walk for a week on bute. I have to slowly bring her back into work over the next four weeks. The vet feels there is a slight chance she will remain slightly unsound and will require bute for ridden work. She seems to be fine at the moment (though I have not trotted her up for over a week now) and I am quite confident she will make a full recovery, she is only in very light work so I am not bothered about giving her bute or fully retiring her if necessary. Helen how are you getting on with your mare? |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 7482
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Dec 24, 2002 - 7:34 am: | |
Hello Clare,
What was the basis for the diagnosis and prognosis? Was some signs of acute inflammation in the tendon present?
DrO |
Clare
Member
Username: Crose
Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Dec 24, 2002 - 9:14 am: | |
There was, and has been no, inflammation or heat in the tendon. The mare has had quite a severe tendon injury in the past which completely severed all the tendons (gunshot wound)and there is alot of scar tissue here. The ultra sound scan showed no new tendon damage. I think the prognosis was made on the fact that she was quite lame and has improved dramatically in just a few weeks. No further steps to diagnosis were made as the vet felt this would not change the advice given. It was me who asked for the nerve blocks and tendon scan! I admit that I don't fully understand the prognosis as if this is related to tendon tissue I would have thought it would require treatment as per tendon injury. The vet reassured me that he does not believe the injury is serious, I can turn her out and I will take her back if she is not sound by the end of the six weeks. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 7485
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Dec 26, 2002 - 6:10 am: | |
Well with blocking of the foot and pastern you have ruled out many causes of lameness some of which require special treatment, we are really back to where we were on Nov 28th, with a shorter list of possibilities.
Your choice now is whether to wait to see if it will heal or to seek further diagnostic work up. I have to admit if I thought I had a tendon injury I would be moving a little slower but I am not there to examine all the factors, see » Equine Diseases » Lameness » Rehabilitating Injuries to the Tendons and Ligaments.
DrO |
Helen Weedon
Member
Username: Cara2
Post Number: 52
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 3, 2003 - 8:03 am: | |
Hi Clare,
Thanks for asking. Here we are nearly 2 months on and its a case of two steps forward and one back! After the first 10 days of box rest she was sound until she saw another horse and charged up the field - my fault, I shouldn't have left her off the lead rope but she was grazing quietly..... Ok, another two weeks of rest and gentle walking about and sound again so she indulged in too much rolling after breakfast - lame again! Three weeks of more rest and gradually building up the walks and I think she was ok although I feel it pains her to turn on the forehand like your horse but then it was New Years Eve and the fireworks terrified her so guess what, the leg was up again. Each time I feel it is actually worsening. There was no swelling originally, then her sesamoid area came up and now the whole of the back of the leg from below the knee to the top of the fetlock is sqashy in the mornings. I keep on with the cold water and bandaging but its driving me and her mad. She is a lively animal at the best of times so to be couped up so much is awful for her. She loves her walks out though (we combine it with grazing so she gets out of her stable for at least an hour at weekends and about 25 minutes each night after work). Any thoughts Dr O?
Helen |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 7520
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Jan 4, 2003 - 9:56 am: | |
Not really anything new Helen, nothing has changed since my Dec. 26th post. Maybe one extra piece of information: it gets better with rest and worsens with exercise. Do not use the swelling as a indication of the lameness problem they are probably not related. The swelling maybe stocking up caused by the lack of exercise.
DrO |
Helen Weedon
Member
Username: Cara2
Post Number: 53
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, Jan 6, 2003 - 8:26 am: | |
Hi again Dr O,
Better news today, I trotted her up (briefly) on the road on Saturday and she looked sound. Normally she would be at her lamest when going from trot to walk but I couldn't see anything even on the repeat test. There was a small amount of heat in the side of the fetlock again in the morning as I reported previously but the overall filling of the leg was a bit better. I shall continue to exercise her gently only in walk and increase the duration steadily which will please her no-end! I always put a good supportive bandage on when she comes out of her stable and try to keep her on pretty level ground to prevent the fetlock being strained backwards. I'm hoping finally this is the beginning of the end of her lay-off just for her sake, she hates being so restricted. |
Clare
Member
Username: Crose
Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Jan 30, 2003 - 11:40 am: | |
Hello again,
My horse seems to be doing fine. I have had an accident now (!!!) so my mare is only being ridden twice a week now by a friend. She has been sound since we last spoke and will start trotting in a couple of weeks time. Helen have you seen the vet since your first e-mail? I would definately get the vet out again if the lameness is re-occuring. Have you had the tendon scanned yet to rule out tendon problems? A tendon will take a long time to heal so I think you need to be very careful with your mare. Good luck. Clare |
Helen Weedon
Member
Username: Cara2
Post Number: 55
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Friday, Jan 31, 2003 - 8:46 am: | |
Hello Clare. Oh no, poor you. I hope you get better again soon. Like yours my mare is doing much better now. I've been alternating leading her out in hand and half an hours ridden walking during the week and going for about 1.5 miles in hand at the weekend. Her leg is now completely cool and hard and she is using it well to lever herself up after a roll which I take as a very good sign. I let her do a little trotting when we are on our longer walks, on softer ground than the road so the the concussion doesn't bother her. I hope to increase the length of the walk out this weekend by about 50% (boy am I going to be tired!), still keeping the leg well strapped up though and keeping gradients to a minimum. It will be a long time before I can ride her out - she always tries to gallop off, but at least she can have a good leg stretch and plenty of grass to entertain her. She is due for her annual vaccinations shortly so I'll probably ask my vet to have a look and feel of her while he is with us. I think her previous relapses were just because she was jarring her fetlock and it was getting more and more inflamed. I'm smiling more now |
