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Discussion on Crumbly hoof wall

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Rich Burnett
Member
Username: Burnejr

Post Number: 4
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Saturday, Jun 14, 2003 - 5:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi.

I have a 15 year old mare that has developed a crumbling of the outer hoof wall. It seemed to start early this spring with a crumbling around where the nails come out. The wet season has probably made it worse but now she has 3/4 inch of outer hoof wall crumbled away and shoes didn't stay on but about a week. Four weeks ago I began feeding HB 15 a biotin supplement of course it hasen't had time to show much results yet. Tje farrier wants to come back early next week and remove the crumbly part and fill over with acrylic and try to get a shoe on to stablize the holves while we wait for new growth. I have her in a dry stall and plan to keep her there until the farrier works on her. We usually leave our horses out 24/7 and our pasture is well drained, but we have just had rain every day seems like. Does anyone have concerns about teh acrylic idea?

Thanks.

Rich Burnett
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 8586
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Sunday, Jun 15, 2003 - 7:58 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

As long as done well this is a workable solution. The trick is to be sure a product that the farrier is familiar with and had good results with before is attached to clean healthy horn with no defects or dirt under the acrylic. For more on preventing crumbly walls see Equine Diseases Lameness Diseases of the Hoof Poor Horn Quality: problems with the wall and soles.
DrO
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Rich Burnett
Member
Username: Burnejr

Post Number: 6
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 17, 2003 - 7:43 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

The farrier came today and his work looks great and very promising. Four to six weeks and I'll know just how well this worked.

He set his rasp just under the chipping outer hoof wall and worked it away, upward until he reached beyond the separating outer and inner hoof wall and could only see good hoof. He got both front feet ready, than set shoes on using only the back nails since so much of the front was gone. The ring around the hoof was about 3/4 inch from ground up. Cleaned it very clean. Then he used, I believe it was equatane (sp?) to fill in where the hoof should have been. He did both front feet using one tip dispenser without stopping because the stuff has 30 second set time, once you stop the flow, you pretty much have to change the tip. He let it set about 10 minutes and rasp it down to where the hoof should have been and added more nails. Repeated on back feet. A very neat looking job. Now we wait to see how it all holds together.
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Elizabeth Donahue
Member
Username: Paul303

Post Number: 349
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Jun 17, 2003 - 11:44 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Back in the late 70's,I had an App that lost a good portion of wall when we were experimenting going shoeless. Since I'm a Dental Hygienist, I had access to the material needed, and my farrier had been doing some experimental ( at that time ) treatments like this at the track. He prepped the site and put the shoe on, then I cleaned, disinfected, dried, etched, and dried again, then quickly mixed and applied the acrylic and slapped on a form made of tin foil and duct tape. When it cured, the farrier put some finishing touches to it, then laughed at me as I used some fine pumice to polish it to a tooth like finish - with perfect margins- if I do say so myself. He didn't put a nail through it. In those days, the bonding material wasn't what it is now. However, it more than did the job, and remained in place through 2 shoeings. Today, there are some really incredible things being done with this technology. Good Luck!
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Rich Burnett
Member
Username: Burnejr

Post Number: 7
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Sunday, Jun 29, 2003 - 10:01 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

An update, Its been two weeks, and the hoof repair is still holding and looking great. I hope this means that new growth is coming tht will eventually replace the crumbly part, oh, also still feeding biotin daily. Thanks for this great informational site.
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Heidi Wealleans
Member
Username: Pones

Post Number: 121
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Monday, Jun 30, 2003 - 3:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

That sounds really good Rich. Keep feeding the biotin. What does the horn above the area that crumbled look like? If it's different and looks of better quality, then maybe the crumbly part was due to some nutrient imbalance when that horn was 'made'.

The hoof grows about 0.2mm per day in a healthy horse, so it will take a few months to clearly see the effect of feeding the biotin, and it depends on the full hoof wall height, but it's usually 9-10 months before the whole hoof has renewed.

Keep working with your farrier - I've seen tremendous improvements through teamwork such as this. Good luck!

Heidi
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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 8682
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Monday, Jun 30, 2003 - 7:32 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Rich how about the methionine (?) and are you keeping the feet clean and dry? It is this last that will make the most difference.
DrO
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Rich Burnett
Member
Username: Burnejr

Post Number: 8
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Thursday, Jul 10, 2003 - 3:02 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

We have put this horse in a dry stall because the environemnt was just too wet for 24/7 outside. The acrylic probably helped but we got some more crumbling, about as much as we got new growth and the acrylic is now gone. I will keep her in except on dry days when I'll put her in a small and dry turnout. I have also had to put up another horse to keep her calm, actually I have a couple others that need time off the grass so this should help all of them. I am treating the feet with karatex (?) about every 3-4 days, the farrier said to not get this product in the conrary band. She needs nearly 3/4 inch of growth to grow past teh problem if it doesn't crumble snd split more. Keeping clean and dry should be much easier now.
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Rich Burnett
Member
Username: Burnejr

Post Number: 9
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Tuesday, Jul 22, 2003 - 12:13 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Wondering if anyone has an opinion on using the fabric cuff glue on shoe system to treat a horse such as the on in this thread. See http://www.soundhorse.com/

My horse has about 3/4 inch of outer hoof wall htat needs to grow out. I have been keeping her in a dry stall and turning her out after the due is off. The video which accompanies the site above makes it look like I could shoe the horse and keep her out unless we are having a lot of rain. It sure would make life easier if she didn't have to stay in so much. My current treatment is really just keeping her feet dry and clean, and have added a supplement with biotin and methioine (Biotin II 22x is the product

d-Biotin
352 mg/lb. (22 mg/oz.)

Sulfur
25,000 mg/lb. (1,563 mg/oz.)

dl-Methionine
30,000 mg/lb. (1,875 mg/oz.)

I-Lysine
25,000 mg/lb. (1,563 mg/oz.)

l-Cystine
5,000 mg/lb. (313 mg/oz.)

Pyridoxine Hydrochloride
850 mg/Ib. (53 mg/oz.)

Manganese
800 mg/lb. (50 mg/oz.)

Zinc
725 mg/lb. (45 mg/oz.)

Copper
250 mg/lb. (15 mg/oz.)

Selenium
16 mg/lb.(1 mg/oz.)

Live Cell Microbials
2x107 CFU* gm

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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 8813
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Wednesday, Jul 23, 2003 - 3:11 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I am afraid I do not have much experience with this glue on system but cannot think of any reason it should not be used if you know someone who has successfully applied it before Rich.
DrO
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Rich Burnett
Member
Username: Burnejr

Post Number: 10
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Monday, Aug 11, 2003 - 1:36 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi, an update - I kept my horse in a dry stall anytime our pasture was wet and every night, letting her out after the dew was gone, for about 4 weeks now. Have had no more crumpling or spliting, Also used the keratex 2 times per week. Got the glue on shoes from sound horse technologies with fabric cuff and we put them on the front only on Saturday 8/9. Very easy install. We didn't need them on back as the back was never as bad as the front and had grown down so a regular nail on worked fine. The glue on shoes are attached and feel very secure, I rode the horse for a couple of hours on Sunday and the shoes look like they are there to stay. There is no glue between the shoe and the hoof, it is attached only by the fabric to the top side of the hoof. My plan is to only use them one time to protect her hoof while it grows more. Farrier said we could have nailed on the front but might have started the cracking and flaking again as the nails would have come out just barely in the good hoof. My farrier was very satisfied with the condition of the hoof and we will discontinue the keratex now. Keratex has a gel product that is supposed to be like a wax and helps water proof which they say not to use in conjunction with the hardener as one keeps the other from working. I have asked them the ingredients of the gel but don't have an answer yet, however water hitting the hoof beads up like wax.
Anyway my problem is well on way to being sloved, and likely the primary driver in solving the problem was dry feet.

Thank you horseman advisor for a great place to share ideas.
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