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Discussion on Heart Murmur | |
Author | Message |
Member: Lynn0577 |
Posted on Thursday, Aug 14, 2003 - 8:45 pm: I leased an 8 year old Quarter horse for the summer. The day he arrived we found a huge lump on the left side of his neck up against his jaw. It turned out to be inflamation and scar tissue as well as both his left and right juglar veins being occluded. After his recovering and reduction of inflamation, we have been using him in a riding program over the last 9 weeks. He is being used 3 hours a day and jumped every other day and has been fine. I decided I wanted to purchase him. When I had him vet checked, upon exercise, we found a heart murmur. At rest, no murmur. Sounds like beat beat swoosh - beat beat swoosh. My Vet is recommending I not purchase this animal. He says murmurs are tricky and he can be fine for years or DrOp dead ina month. Basically, a walking time bomb. Can you tell me a little more about murmurs and would you think I would be OK with this animal.Thanks, Lynn |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Friday, Aug 15, 2003 - 6:22 am: Hello Lynn,Murmurs are a common finding in horses and often functional and not a problem. However this evaluation depends on several characteristics of the murmur:
DrO |
Member: Lynn0577 |
Posted on Friday, Aug 15, 2003 - 6:14 pm: Hi Dr.The murmur is due to the fact that the horse has two occluded jugular veins one on the right and one on the left of his neck due to something caustic like bute being alternately injected into the veins prior to me getting him. My vet feels that the problem stems from this. I also got a second opionion from another vet in the area over the phone today and they also stated that a murmur noticable upon exercise is never good. There are times that a murmur is noticable at rest and goes away upon exercise and those horses function just fine. But when it worsens with exercise, that is the worse kind. The murmur occurs after the beats when you would normally hear a pause and then beats again. Instead of a pause, you hear a swooshing sound. The sound becomes louder and pronounced upon exercise. Does any of this additional information help you? Thanks, Lynn |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Saturday, Aug 16, 2003 - 4:38 pm: If the jugulars are still occluded the chance of complications (swelling around the head, infectious phlebits, and myocardial infarction are three that occur off the top of my head) are increased quite a bit. You buy him at your risk.DrO |
New Member: Bonnie23 |
Posted on Friday, Dec 23, 2005 - 11:08 am: I have been leasing a 15 yo TB and am considering purchasing him. He has been raced in the past. I took him for a prepurchase exam and the vet found that he had a Grade 3 heart murmur on his right side. Left side sounded fine. There is no edema in his legs, exercise intolerance and he shows no signs of illness.The vet's report states "has a Grade 3 systolic murmur, audible over the rt side. This murmur is most likely secondary to a tricuspid valve insufficiency." I have been reading about heart murmurs to try and determine how significant this finding is and whether I should purchase "Lucky". I have become very attached to him, but am trying to look at how this will impact on his future upkeep and cost. Please let me know if you have had any experience with this health finding. Thank you, Bonnie |
Member: Canyon28 |
Posted on Friday, Dec 23, 2005 - 12:18 pm: I would have another vet listen to his heart and get a second opinion. I recently read an article that said that 80% of racing Two year old Tbs have some sort of heart murmur, only about 20% of this 80% are considered to be health threatening. Dr O, isnt a dystolic heart murmur the worst kind?If the horse is this old and has been ridden all his life, I would not hesitate to buy him, but you might be able to use this as a bargaining tool to get the price on him down some. I did lose a 13 year old mare this summer to a heart attack or anuerism, not sure which, I do know that the vet told me she had a heart murmur several years ago when we were doing her teeth. If I had known she had one before I bought her, it would never have stopped me from buying her for one minute. She was a daughter of a very very famous cutting horse and was so well trained for any thing that I wanted to do with her that I will probably never be able to replace her. The pleasure and companionship she gave me in the 6 years I had her I will remember for the rest of my life. Even if this horse has a heart murmur, it is more likely he will die from something else entirely. If you love the horse, I would buy him, especially since you said exercise didnt seem to bother him or make the murmur worse. chris www.canyonrimranch.net |
New Member: Leec |
Posted on Friday, Dec 23, 2005 - 2:04 pm: I would be less inclined to worry about a mild heart murmur in a gelding or a mare that is not going to be used for breeding. I recently passed up on an opportunity to buy a 6 yr old running QH mare due to her having a heart murmur, albeit and a club foot. I was not as concerned about the heart murmur as much as the club foot, as I prefer my horses to be barefoot as much as possible and did not want to get into corrective shoeing etc. Anyway, even without the club foot, I would not have bought this mare as my vet pointed out that both conditions are often hereditary and would strongly advise against ever breeding this mare. I wanted the option to breed, so I passed. There is enough expense and unknowns in breeding horses from perfect parents, that I felt introducing a possible 'known' was not an option. This mare had a, 'Grade 2 murmur – soft, associated with 2nd beat', in the vet’s words. Upon her pre-purchase it did not worsen with exercise and the vet thought it may even lessen once she was brought into top condition. However, as an older horse the condition may have become noticeable when climbing hills etc.. Had this mare been a gelding without the club foot, I would have purchased 'him'. Mind you, I was looking for a trail horse. If I were looking for an endurance horse, I would have again passed (my vet says she checks lots of endurance horses that do have heart murmurs, but they still perform... I’m not much of a risk taker though). So, I do think it’s worth really thinking about what you are going to use the horse for. If the horse has a heart murmur, but you think it’s 'the one', I wonder if it might be an idea to research the horse’s pedigree a few generations back to maybe see if there are heart murmurs there, and if so, what level did those horses managed to perform at, and at what age they died and by what means... That might help make the decision if you’re unsure – just a thought.Lee C |
Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Saturday, Dec 24, 2005 - 10:45 am: Hello Bonnie,Without knowing the cause, and this would require a echocardiogram (ultrasound) examination of the heart, it is difficult to prognosticate other than looking at statistics: many grade 3 systolic murmurs don't cause problems. But that is not the same as saying yours will not. I think one of the most important characteristics to help you with your decision is what happens during strenuous exercise: does the murmur disappear (good sign), stay the same (hmmm), or worsen (not so good). DrO |