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Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 84
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, Sep 10, 2003 - 12:52 pm: |   |
My horse has what appears to be rain rot on his right hind cannon area.It is very sore . I have been washing with betadine. he also has minor swelling and heat above his fetlock. He was kicked 2 weeks ago in the hock but all swelling went away in 2 days. The kick in the hocks swelling was in the hock region. He is not lame at the trot but does not want to cantor. Cantoring appears appears painful.
Can swelling happen with rain rot or is the swelling from another reason? (the kick) I read the articles, it doesnt mention swelling>
thank you |
Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 85
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, Sep 10, 2003 - 1:41 pm: | |
One other thought. Could it be chiggers? Do they cause swelling? Also are the symptoms like rain rot? Thank you again. We trail ride in brush and woods alott. |
Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 87
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, Sep 10, 2003 - 1:47 pm: | |
One other thought. Could it be chiggers? Do they cause swelling? Also are the symptoms like rain rot? Thank you again. We trail ride in brush and woods alott. |
Elizabeth Donahue
Member
Username: Paul303
Post Number: 380
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 11, 2003 - 1:17 am: | |
Chiggers could look a lot like rain rot. They can look like hundreds of tiny bites ( which they are ).Depending upon the severity, you could have some swelling. Don't go on the trails w/o spraying well. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 9074
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 11, 2003 - 6:58 am: | |
Yes you can have swelling with just about any skin problem of the lower legs. Chiggers and mites tend to cause pruritis (itching).
As to whether the disease is causing hin not to canter, I cannot say. It you are sure that he is not lame at the trot, I would not think the canter resistance is do to lameness but if this represents a big change for this horse, perhaps you should have the vet look. It is easy to miss low grade rear limb lameness.
DrO
|
Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 88
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 11, 2003 - 7:09 am: | |
Thank you.
I am getting the vet out friday morning. I have a hunter pace coming up and I want a clean bill of health before I decide wether or not to compete. |
Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 89
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, Sep 12, 2003 - 8:39 pm: | |
Just an update. My vet came out and she did find a little lameness. He has a bad case of dermatophillus. Thats why the swelling etc. Thanks Dr O for recommending the vet. Everyone told me he was fine when a little voice inside me was not convinced. He's on antibiotics for 2 weeks and a week of bute. Thanks again. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 9086
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Sep 13, 2003 - 9:50 am: | |
Thanks for letting us know and let us know if the canter problem resolves with the lameness resolution.
DrO |
Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 92
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 21, 2003 - 6:51 pm: | |
Dr O the canter has improved. He is now happy to canter.overly sometimes. This is the first I have heard of a skin infection causing that much pain. Fortunatly he is back on track. Thanks for the advise. |
Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 104
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 21, 2003 - 12:08 pm: | |
Hi Dr O,
The dermatophillus is back. I washed his leg and removed a few scabs. However his whole cannon area is extremily pink sore and swollen. Betadine actually makes it worse . I am going to treat as before. Wrapping and bacatracian, and antibiotics. Dr O any suggestions as to why this is happening. He is extremily healthy as far as I can see. No other horse has it. It looks to me like a burn from a product. Nothing has been put on it to make it appear that way. I am going to wait a week and hope that I dont need to get the vet out again.
any thoughts ?
Katrina |
ANN COLLIER
Member
Username: Dres
Post Number: 277
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 21, 2003 - 5:08 pm: | |
is your horse out in the sun..? sometimes they have a sensitivity to the sun.. if white, it could be a sunburn...
Ann |
Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 105
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 21, 2003 - 8:57 pm: | |
Thanks Anne, He does get sunburn as he is sensative to clover and sun , however I dont think this is that. Its not the sun blisters he gets on his face and nose. The sores and scabs have a yellow pus under them. The area around the scabs actually right now is extremily painful and red(pink). I shaved the area to get rid of the scabs and his whole cannon area is so sore. wish I new what is causing this. |
Marti Thompson
Member
Username: Marti
Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 21, 2003 - 10:55 pm: | |
Katrina, My mare gets about the same thing from wet grass (dew poisoning). Many scabs and a yellowish clear oozing. I have treated it in the past with diaper rash ointment and had good results. I am having a fit with it right now and she has a large round scapped area on her rear leg (white sock region)also some swelling. This has been going on for over three weeks. I am told it is a bacteria. Wash with Dial soap or Nolvasan Surgical Scrub(best)and keep him off of any wet grass. Good luck. I will read back to see if you are having any results. |
Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 106
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 6:48 am: | |
Thanks Marti, Thats all I can think of. I have been stalling him at night and in rainy weather and bandaging area to keep clean and dry. He has it so bad. What are the ingredients in Nolvasan surgical scrub? Betadine irritates him badly and actually makes it worse. I use diaper rash ointment on his face every day. I used the bacitracian on his leg because thats what the vet said. However its not doing a great job. At least its not making it worse. I will try it on his leg and let you know. Thanks. |
Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 107
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 6:50 am: | |
Dr O, What about wonder dust on his leg?
Katrina |
Fiona Farrell
Member
Username: Lala
Post Number: 104
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 7:30 am: | |
Good morning Katrina,
My heart goes out to you, this isn't a life threatening problem but boy can it be discouraging trying to get rid of it and dealing with a horse that is in such pain.
Here are some hints of how I have dealt with it on my four white legged grey mare. Nolvasan either in the plain solution or in the surgical scrub has as its active ingredient chlorhexid(r?)ine gluconate. It is a 2% solution. You can find the same ingredient in a 4% solution for human use called Hibiclens, ask for it at pharmacist's counter, it is not prescription but pharmacists keep it behind the counter similar to icthammol. What I have read here and my own experience and seeing all my vets use it I now use Nolvasan exclusively and my Betadine is gathering dust on the shelf.
I have used a combo of things to treat my mare's scratches that I vary depending on the weather. When it is wet I tend to primarily use Desitin or Corona ointment due to their ability to stay on. I have no system about when to use Desitin over Corona, Desitin seems to be more soothing but Corona seems to be better at clearing things up.
I was highly sceptical about using Corona as it is such an old formula.
But if it is dry or you are able to bandage the ointment on, for instance cannons of stalled horse much easier than pasterns of turned out horse, I heartily recommend using the Nolvasan ointment. It is not as sticky as Corona or Desitin but seems to do a much better job at clearing up infection, primarily because, I think, it is a much superior at killing the microbes causing the problem.
I also find that using the Nolvasan diluted about 4:1 in a spray, (either scrub or plain, probably plain is slightly prefereable as you will not be scrubbing and don't need the soap residue) sprayed over the problem area and then dryed very thoroughly is a great first step. There has been discussion here about people swearing by turkey basters for applying flushes, you might want to try that method, me, I'm content with my spray bottle.
Also, Dr. O mentioned how use of probiotics/prebiotics can possibly have an adverse effect, so if he is on any supplement that has these or yeast is in his grain you might want to discontinue its use. My approach was to keep feeding the same feed which does have some yeast in it but discontinue feeding the FORCO supplement that I feed my herd. I have tried using triple antibiotic ointment and have found it helps but only minimally and not as well as the Nolvasan ointment or even the Corona or Desitin. RE wonder dust, again, seem to recall Dr. O saying something about it being too caustic. but, given the moisture absorbtion it provides, who knows? My thought would be, too painful for beastie, but then I am far too tenderhearted about my horses.
And on a note re lameness, my mare has become much more flexible since her scratches have cleared up, it really does cause a great deal of pain.
Best of luck with this persistent problem.
Fiona |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 9328
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 8:10 am: | |
Fiona remembers right, Wonderdust is very caustic and works by burning tissues with copper sulfate.
As to the betadine being irritating, this may indicate a unusual sensitivity: Betadine is mild enough to be used on open wounds, flush the inside of the uterus, and even used on eyes for certain problems. However if your horse has become sensitized (allergic) to it then this would account for worsening. This is not common however.
Lastly why are you having recurrent problems, I would look to the environment, particularly conditions that promote the skin staying wet: rain, dew, etc..
DrO |
JANETTE MCDOWELL
Member
Username: Westks
Post Number: 76
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 10:03 am: | |
If a person got area clean with which ever surgical scrub preferred, and then completely dry why wouldn't udder balm work , it has antiseptic and I would think it would stay on very well and protect wound from moisture. I am thinking I would cover with plain gauze bandage if able to keep horse away from dew, If not , I think In addition to gauze I would put on a shipping boot, that has been soaked with scotch guard waterproofing and allowed to dry. I have a couple shipping boots that I took sheep shears trimmed all fleece down to about nothing I have used them several times to keep wounds clean/dry but still allow air flow. They are easy to wash and keep clean and just enough fleece left to apply antibioitic cream or whatever if need be.
I am also wondering about a diaper with meds on it, if it wouldn't wick the oozing away from area. Is the stuff oozing making it spread even further? I have never seen oozing from chiggers, swelling and bleeding from scratching area but not oozing.
These are just some thoughts I had about what would I try for this problem. I have never seen or had this with any of my horses. Probably because so dry out west. Dr O any comments that would prevent me from making huge mistake would be appreciated. |
Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 108
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 10:57 am: | |
Thank you, Fiona, Dr O and Janette.
Glad I asked about the wonder dust. A friend was trying to get me to use it . Because he is so sensative I am not putting anything on without checking it out first. Who would have thought betadine would irritate. Not me.
Fiona I am going to try the Nolvasan, thanks for the wonderful advise,
Jannette Love the shipping boot idea. Vet wrap is so expensive if you use it every day. I use bacitracian, gauze, padding then vetwrap.
Thank you again for the wonderful advise. |
Marti Thompson
Member
Username: Marti
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 12:02 pm: | |
Dr. O, With the problem that we are discussing here, would it not be better to keep it unbandaged and let the air dry it? It seems that a bandage would tend to keep it moist and harbor the bacteria. I have also wondered if the actual scab build up should be removed or should it be allowed to dry and come off naturally. Every time I have removed the scabs from my mares scrathes, they seem to come back thicker. |
Alicia Kost
Member
Username: Aannk
Post Number: 267
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 12:09 pm: | |
Just a bit of info. Both my horses had rain rot / scratches all over, and I clipped them both. Both are clear of infection now. I beleive the longer hair was harboring the bacteria. You have to shave extra close on the legs too.
Alicia |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 9333
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 23, 2003 - 6:47 am: | |
Though I have not tried it Udder Balm may be effective in some cases but its very heavy nature may make it hard to apply. Perhaps if it were warmed ... It would also depend if the organism were sensitive to the mildly antiseptic properties.
Whether to bandage depends on the nature of the treatment. If heavy emolients, like Desitin, are used they are better off bandaged to keep them in place and cleaner. Otherwise I think you are correct open and dry is best.
Whether scabs should be removed or not depends on the nature of the scabs. If they are the heavy hair embedded scabs that the bacteria live under, they should be removed, if they are the dry light scabs that form following exsposure of a shallow erosion they should be left alone.
DrO |
Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 112
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 28, 2003 - 12:17 pm: | |
Dr O
I have been using Nolvasan scrub and spray. His leg looked better, no swelling etc. However?
My question is.
I re shaved the hair on his cannon to see whats underneath as it grew back. Although there were no major scabs, when I shaved the area with my clipper the hair coming off pulled up the top layer of skin and it was bleeding. This is over most of his cannon. Whats going on? Is this normal? Is this the dermatophillus. Should I worry or is this good to get all the crusty area off. (It did not look crusty till I shaved it.)
Thanks Katrina
|
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 9373
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, Oct 28, 2003 - 5:15 pm: | |
Sounds like dermatophillus to me Katrina and yes these heavy crusts need to be removed.
DrO |
Katrina Turner
Member
Username: Kthorse
Post Number: 114
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, Oct 31, 2003 - 12:42 pm: | |
Just to let you all know the Nolvasan scrub and spray are clearing it up great. It looks better every day. Fingers crossed |
Fiona Farrell
Member
Username: Lala
Post Number: 105
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, Nov 1, 2003 - 1:04 am: | |
Katrina -- that's great, isn't it such a wonderful feeling when you feel you are turning the bend on scratches? Here's to 100% resolution very soon! Fiona |
