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Discussion on Curbs & effects on soundness

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Amy Brachthauser
Member
Username: Horsepix

Post Number: 2
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Monday, Sep 29, 2003 - 1:47 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I'm looking at a lovely young off the track Thoroughbred gelding. He is 3.5 years old and 17h with big joints and big feet. I suspect he has a slight curb on his left hind -- and now that I look at it closer, perhaps even on the right. I want to use this horse for dressage and eventing (horse trials). Can you tell me a) if he does have a curb and b) what your thoughts are on horses with curbs that will be asked to engage their hocks.

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JANETTE MCDOWELL
Member
Username: Westks

Post Number: 55
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Monday, Sep 29, 2003 - 6:06 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

This is just my opinion but the hocks themselves look to straight for Dressage to me .
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Althaea Flicek
Member
Username: Althaea

Post Number: 16
Registered: 7-2002
Posted on Monday, Sep 29, 2003 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

I tend to agree with you Janette - plus he looks to be awfully narrow behind (could be the angle of the photos). Can't really see him being physically able to get well under himself to engage the hocks very well. I'd have to see a complete picture of the boy to ascertain what type of problems you might encounter during training and use as an event horse. You may email me privately if you like if you want a conformational evaluation.
My email is:
ctc.althaea@verizon.net

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Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro

Post Number: 9203
Registered: 1-1997
Posted on Monday, Sep 29, 2003 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hello Amy,
In general I agree there is a slight "curbiness" but the pictures alone do not answer your questions.

You need to review the article on Curb. It explains how to tell the difference between when this may be a problem or not and possible further diagnostic steps to check. Take the conformation evaluatios for what they are, intellectural exercises, everything depends on how he moves and conformation does not always tell the whole story. I must say however that is one colorful TB.
DrO
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Amy Brachthauser
Member
Username: Horsepix

Post Number: 3
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 - 12:50 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Hi DrO

I went back to look at this lovely boy a little closer and I do think he has a curb on the left hock. Do to that and his somewhat spooky nature, I'm going to pass on him. I ride sidesaddle, and aside from dressage and eventing, I also ride in parades and historical reenactments. I just don't think this guy will ever be a parade horse.

He is a lovely boy though. When I went back to look at him again, I couldn't really see how he moved because he was lame from having cast himself in the stall (swollen rear pastern -- same leg as the curb).

Grey Gelding

As for his coloring, I've never seen a TB that looked like him before. He is a gorgeous dapple gray, but has those funky white spots (that aren't dapples) all over his body.
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Fiona Farrell
Member
Username: Lala

Post Number: 101
Registered: 11-2001
Posted on Tuesday, Sep 30, 2003 - 6:08 pm:   Edit PostPrint Post

Dear Amy,

Those spots are called Tetrarch marks after The Tetrarch (1911) who was a grey Tb who had the same markings. During his very successful 2 year old racing career (won 7 out of 7 races)in England he was known as "The Spotted Wonder." Pictures of his sire Roi Herode also show the same marks. If you go back several generations you will probably find The Tetrarch in this guy's pedigree. For instance, The Tetrarch is in the pedigrees of Mr. Prospector, Caro, Halo, Northern Dancer, The Axe and of Grey Dawn II. So, you see The Tetrarch's influence in nearly every TB born today. Often you will find him twice or more in horses such as Holy Bull, Unbridled Song, Monarchos, Silver Charm, Free House, Skipaway, Two Punch, and of course, many bay and chestnut TBs as well. You also see it in many jumping lines and European Tb sires used to "improve" warmbloods.

Along the same lines the black spots you sometimes see on Tb chestnuts are called Bend Or spots after the sire Bend Or (1877) who had those markings. Check out Mr. P's son Pioneering, for instance. Interestingly, Bend Or's half sister's great grand-son was The Tetrarch.

As you might have gathered I am very interested in tall grey TBs' genetics and very curious as to this guy's pedigree. Do you have his registered name and his sire and dam's names?

I think you made a good decision to shy away from him, he seems a bit light in the gaskins along with his straight hocks. Coupled with his medium short pasterns that may be somewhat upright I don't think he would have been a very comfortable ride. And who knows he may one of those horses that is simply accident prone!

Good luck in your search.

Fiona



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Imogen Bertin
Member
Username: Imogen

Post Number: 404
Registered: 4-2003
Posted on Wednesday, Oct 1, 2003 - 1:46 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Looks rather long in the back in this photograph...

Imogen
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Amy Brachthauser
Member
Username: Horsepix

Post Number: 7
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Wednesday, Oct 1, 2003 - 8:36 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Yes, he looks long everywhere -- he's quite gangly. I wasn't looking for a GP prospect, so his conformation faults weren't that important. More the curb and his flighty personality. With a couple of months away from race training, he might calm down some as he is just the sweetest guy -- very much wants to be your friend. But, I don't think he'll ever be calm enough for the things I want to do (parades and historical reenactments -- let alone dressage shows).

His registered name is Ida Be A Bud, but I don't know who his sire/dam are.

Amy
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Helen Weedon
Member
Username: Cara2

Post Number: 78
Registered: 9-2002
Posted on Wednesday, Oct 1, 2003 - 8:55 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

He is a lovely looker, but oh those hocks are terrible - sorry. They are so tiny and the hind legs in total are incredibly straight and weedy. I cannot believe that they will stand up to any form of work in the future, in fact I'm really surprised they survived his race training. I realise he is very immature and in lean fit condition but he is also very tubular which makes his longish back look even longer. No, I'd walk away right now.
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Amy Brachthauser
Member
Username: Horsepix

Post Number: 12
Registered: 9-2003
Posted on Sunday, Oct 5, 2003 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostPrint Post

Well, just to calm everyone's burning desire, I did NOT buy this young gelding. Actually, his hocks are HUGE. They may look small here, but when I first went to look at him, they stood out to me as being ENORMOUS (and I'm used to draft horses). I felt them all over and he wasn't puffy, warm or anything. They were just great big bony hocks. I guess they're enormous in width and not length then...but he has HUGE hocks and big feet.

It funny all of you saying "run, run, away" when everyone on the dressage board (www.ultimatedressage.com) was oohing and aahing over him as a dressage horse. All except for the person who pointed out his curby hock...anyhow...

Thanks for all the feedback. :-)
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