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jayne storkson
Member
Username: Jms2
Post Number: 6
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 1:51 pm: |   |
My 8 year old quarter horse had what I consider a bizzare reaction to fall vacination. About an hour after receiving IN flu/rhino, potomic, and one other vaccine he spiked a temp, started trembling all over, displayed inappetence, had respiratory distress (he has heaves but had been symptom free at the time) and went down on his side with his legs stretched out in front (after going up and down several times). He was unresponsive to even a ringing cell phone put right by his ear and had a vacant look in his eye. Several of us on the scene thought he was going to die before the vet could get back. The vet office told us to give him Banamine (IM) and the vet would be back ASAP. About fifteen minutes after the Banamine and before the vet gave him anything else he got up on his feet, walked over to his hay feeder and started eating just like there was nothing wrong!! Does this seem strange?--I guess I thought he would need epinephrin to come out of that type of reaction. A note-the last time he got some of the same vaccinations he had a colic episode within a few hours that was more than mild.Of course now I am afraid to have hime vaccinated again. Any insight into this strange (or maybe not strange if this is how some horses react and recover)would be appreciated. Thanks
P.S. I read the articles-didn't see anything quite like this reaction or recovery with just Banamine. |
Christine Holmes Bukowski
Member
Username: Canyon28
Post Number: 22
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 5:45 pm: | |
WOW! how horrible, some horses cannot tolerate the fort dodge products. is that what was used? I can tell you with any kind of allergic reaction, it will be worse the next time. If it were me, I would no longer vacinate this horse, or try a very small amount of a different companies product, of course with a vet standing by. The only reactions I have ever heard of were with fort dodge products,and it seems to be the carrier compound the drugs are mixed with that causes the problems, not the vacines them selves. |
JANETTE MCDOWELL
Member
Username: Westks
Post Number: 79
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 5:57 pm: | |
I would not stop vaccinating him but would probably give vaccinations seperately and spread out not in just a few days. That way you can at least pinpoint which vaccine he is reacting to or whether it is combining them all at once that is causing problem. I am surprised after last years experience you didn't or your vet didn't do this any way. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 9337
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 23, 2003 - 7:58 am: | |
Jayne, this is not that unusual a reaction to the fairly rare event of acute immune reactions (anaphalaxis) to vaccines. In anaphalaxis the overriding physiological event is changes in the vascular system that results in decreased blood pressure and increase permeability of the vascular walls.
In most horses the bottom line of this body wide effect is that the increased permeability resulting in fluid in the lungs is the most serious problem resulting first in the most obvious clinical signs: difficult breathing {dyspnea}. However your horse is either swooning do to the very low blood pressure or laying down from the pain of bowel wall ischemia (too little blood and oxygen). It is uncertain to me which is occuring from your description and as to whether the Banamine is having a positive effect or if the body is adjusting to the life threatening conditions and recovering on its own, but I suspect both are in play with the Banamaine relieving the bowel discomfort. Note however that some of the important problems that arrise in anaphalaxis are not ameniable to Banamine or any NSAID and it should not be relied on as a sole treatment.
Christine, I have used Fort Dodge products for over 10 years and though this represents tens of thousands of doses have not had a acute immune reaction, yet. I don't believe that the above reaction represents a toxic type reaction but a sensitization reaction and could occur with any product that stimulates the immune system.
I would certainly cut out the less neccessary vaccines, PHF is a waste of money and time (see article on PHF), the respiratory vaccines are optional and can be dropped. However tetanus, rabies, and encephalitis...I don't know I would have to balance the local risks against the threat of these particular vaccines.
If continued vaccination is decided on, Christine does have a good point to change the manufacturer of the vaccine as they do differ slightly in antigens. Janette has a good idea in that vaccines should be given one at a time: you may identify the particular culprit or at least lessen the effect. I would also time and decrease frequency to minimize exposure. For instance once every 2 or 3 years with the tetanus and once yearly with encephalitis in the spring might fit your risk pattern.
DrO |
jayne storkson
Member
Username: Jms2
Post Number: 7
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 23, 2003 - 10:00 am: | |
Thank you all for your responses and suggestions. I will discuss all of these with my vet way before any further vaccinations are even considered-your posts give me ideas to discuss. (I'm sure my vet is considering some of these-I was so shook up at the time of the episode I was not processing info). Dr. O, thank you for explaining the reaction and response-the fact that he seemed to be at deaths door one minute and fine the next with just Banamine really confused me, but your post clarified it for me. Janette-regarding last years episode-I guess at the time I thought coincidence? I didn't think about colic being an allergic reaction-learn something new all the time regarding horses. At this point I will have to think long and hard about vaccinating him again. Thanks again for your response--I'll probably post and let you know how things turned out. |
JANETTE MCDOWELL
Member
Username: Westks
Post Number: 85
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, Oct 23, 2003 - 10:53 am: | |
Since my little bay mare was biten by rattler she has had really sensitive skin ,certain products that I used before I cannot use on her anymore like tritec 14 fly spray she has reaction to cedar wood shavings now. So I would definitely look into another companies products. I agree about Potomic vaccine. |
Amy
New Member
Username: Watchman
Post Number: 4
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, Sep 7, 2006 - 1:06 pm: | |
My horse went into anaphalatic shock earlier this year due to the vaccines i gave him. Thank goodness i had some epinephrine to administer, as i don't think he would have made it. I just wanted to add one more thing that might help - Part of our future regimen for vaccines is to pre-treat our guy with dexamethosine IM an hour before each vaccine to help control any reaction. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16559
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Saturday, Sep 9, 2006 - 8:25 am: | |
Amy, dex is slow to act even when given IM or IV. I would recommend Solu-Delta-Cortef which is an ultra fast acting corticosteroid preparation. The dex might do it, but if not consider the other. Also it is unknown what the effect of such a regimen is on the quality of the vaccination but it is possible it will ameliorate the protection.
DrO |
Sally Payette
Member
Username: 1sally
Post Number: 107
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Saturday, Sep 9, 2006 - 8:47 am: | |
To add to the above posts, also it would be wise to time worming your horse to either 1 month prior to or 1 month after giving vaccinations. I usually vaccinate myself and give each shot at least 1 week apart and divide them between Spring and Fall. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 16564
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 10, 2006 - 9:32 am: | |
Hello Sally,
As long as you are using the program we recommend I do not know of any reason to separate deworming and vaccination by more than a few days and that is only because if problems develop there is less diagnostic confusion not because of any increased chance of a adverse event.
DrO |
Sally Payette
Member
Username: 1sally
Post Number: 108
Registered: 10-2000
| | Posted on Sunday, Sep 10, 2006 - 10:17 am: | |
Hi Dr O,
As you know, I am working with aged horses and have had problems in the past, not nearly as extreme as Jayne's, but worrysome nonetheless. So, I have become ultra conservative and as I give most of the shots and do the worming myself, it is no more difficult to spread things out over a month than to spread it out over a few days. On the other hand, if I had to pay a vet to come out 3 or 4 times, I would probably re-evaluate things. |
