This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Eye Diseases » Topics on Eye Diseases Not Covered Above »
  Discussion on Eye problem
Author Message
Member:
Danny

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 29, 2003 - 7:42 pm:

Hello,

I hope someone might recognize some of these symptoms and be able to make some suggestions as to how to help my horse.

I have an older quarter horse. He is in his early twenties. He has always been healthy, an easy keeper, and a non-finicky eater. Around two weeks ago I got a new shipment of hay in. It was a very stalky Timothy. My old guy did not seem to like it. Thinking that it might be too coarse for him I exchanged it for different hay. For the first day or two my horse ate this new hay. Then around a week and a half ago I got up in the morning and went out to feed and water. I did a few things around the barn and then went to take Danny out of his stall to groom him. I walked into his stall and saw that he had not eaten the hay from the night before. I stood there looking at him (looking at him from the left side) and all looked normal. I just couldn’t figure out why he wasn’t eating his hay. I then put his halter on (from the left side) and walked him out of his stall and put him on the cross ties. I walked in front of him and started looking at him from the ground up. When I got to his face my heart DrOpped. His right eye was swollen shut, his lids looked prolapsed, and his cheek appeared swollen. I called my vet and he came right out.

My vet examined Danny. After checking his eye for foreign bodies and any abrasions, he decided that the swelling was probably the result of a bee sting or bite of some kind. The horse’s vision was fine. He told me that horses will sometimes rub their eyes so violently after they have been stung that this can result in much swelling and very angry looking eyelids. He prescribed Bute and Banamine, topical antibiotics, and told me in a day or two the problem should resolve itself.

The next day things did not look any better. Danny was still not eating any hay. He would only eat his feed. My vet said to give it another day. I continued with the meds and hoped for the best.

The next day (day three) I got up in the morning and went out to feed and check on Danny. He still had not eaten any hay and he was not drinking water now…but seemed interested in his feed. His eyelid looked a little less swollen with less prolapse to the eyelids, but he had increased swelling above his eye now that looked like it was spreading towards his fetlock and ear. His eye had the look of a hypothyroid person. It kind of looked like it was under pressure. His right cheek was still swollen too. The glands under his jaw and in his neck seemed fine. The other thing I noticed was that his vision in that eye seemed poor.

I called my vet back out (last Friday). When he saw the horse he no longer believed that this was a sting or bite. He sedated Danny and looked in his mouth for any broken teeth. He found nothing wrong in his mouth. Based upon the spreading swelling and the apparent vision loss he thought that Danny had some kind of sub orbital abscess, cellulitis, or even a cancer. The first thing he did was take a syringe and tried to get some fluid from the swelling(hoping to find an abscess). Nothing really came out. He then drew blood. He sent the blood for a CBC, and the material that came out of the syringe went for a culture and cytology report.

Since it was Friday he told me we wouldn’t get results until early the next week (this week). He put the horse on a broad-spectrum antibiotic, and lots of antinflamitories. Before he left he gave Danny several bottles of IV fluids and IV DMSO.
Over the weekend Danny did not improve. He still couldn’t eat hay, wouldn’t drink, but did seem interested in pellets. He was given IV fluids every day. The vision in his right eye was completely gone. Very slowly over the weekend it appeared as though the swelling above his eye had abated just slightly. The swelling on his cheek went down substantially. The eyelids seemed less swollen and looked less prolapsed. Vision did not return. He still could not eat hay and only showed intermittent interest in his pellets or any other food temptations. He still was not drinking water.

Most of the lab work has come back. The blood work is normal. There is no infection. The initial cytology report and culture came back normal too, but my vet is having different cytology run with what the lab has left.

My vet is confused. He really believed that this was an infection. He doesn’t think this is a cancer because he says, "cancers don’t shrink or grow smaller". The swelling has gotten smaller despite the complete loss of vision in that eye and obvious pain. There is still the loss of appetite (difficulty eating). Today the swelling is half the size it was over the weekend.

This is a horse that was healthy 2 weeks ago. The swelling on/in the eye happened over night. It did not gradually appear and grow worse over time. Dr O. have you or anyone else ever heard of such a thing? If so what was it and what if anything can be done? What else if anything can be done to try to figure out what is wrong?


Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Oct 30, 2003 - 6:37 am:

Hello Danny,
Your clinical signs are not specific for any one disease. You have acute remarkable inflammation around the eye with possibly involvement in the eye though you do not describe any lesions of the eye itself. Trauma, foreign body, infection, venomous animal bite (do you live in an area that is still warm enough that the spiders are still active?) are all possible. Whenever I have a problem like this that is not resolving like I think it should I start looking for a splinter or larger foreign body.

First lets be clear that just because the lab results were normal does not mean there is no infection. If it is a localized infection the WBC count would be normal. Antibiotics both systemic and topical opthalmic should be continued, in my opinion.

Second though spider bites are often used to explain strange swellings they are not that common. On the other hand a bite by a black widow spider can cause a prolonged swelling with tissue necrosis around the bite that may take weeks to months to resolve. Antiinflammatory therapy should continue.

I think you need to get a opthamologists to look at your horses eye to determine what is causing the blindness and whether it might be reversible.
DrO
Member:
Danny

Posted on Thursday, Oct 30, 2003 - 7:51 am:

Dr O, I will do the things you suggest. I will call an Opthamologist and also keep my horse on antibiotics. No lesions have been noted on the eye itself.

One of the reasons I started this story with the fact that the horse started going off his hay several days before any swelling was noted on and around the eye was to suggest a possible connection between something happening in his mouth/jaw that may have caused the gross swelling around his eye thus putting pressure on his eye(causing him to lose his sight). Is this also a possibility?

He continues to show great interest in food, but seems unable to chew things like hay due to pain and discomfort. He even has difficulty biting down on a large carrot. He can and does eat his feed.

When you talk about foreign bodies...can radiographs or ultrasound localize these things? He has had non of this done. As of this morning the swelling above my horse's right eye has shrunken to half it's original large size. The lids are no longer prolapsed, but now there is some swelling in the lower lid that didn't seem as prominent in the past. The shape and contour of the swellings constantly change and migrate.

Oh, yes I do live where it is warm. I live in South Fla. We have many biting and stinging bugs here year round. We also have venomous snakes.

Thank you for your ideas...Debra
Member:
Annes

Posted on Thursday, Oct 30, 2003 - 12:09 pm:

Is Danny drinking water now? I find it odd that he eats pellets but does not drink. I had this happen to my older TB. It turned out he had lost most of the use of his tongue and thus, water would run back out his mouth when he tried to drink. His tongue was not totally paralyzed so the vet missed it on the first exam. We raised his water bucket to nose level and then he could drink because he did not need his tongue to help pull the water up to swallow. I realize this is not the main problem you are dealing with but if he could get fluids in without IV that would be great. (My horse had EPM - it affected the muscles of his tongue and throat ONLY. He recovered 100% with medication.) I know you said your vet checked his mouth but I remember when my dog had an abcessed top molar, her eye and face was very swollen and painful. It is so frustrating when you don't know what you are dealing with...good luck and I hope Danny will be well soon. - Ann
Member:
Danny

Posted on Thursday, Oct 30, 2003 - 4:25 pm:

Hi Ann,

Thank you for the comments. Any and every little clue may help. He has begun drinking small amounts of water in the last day. I don't get the impression that his tongue is not working. I get the impression that it is pain that has kept him from eating and drinking as he normally does. Last night he managed to eat half a flake of hay, but today none. The flake he had last night was the first bit of hay he has been able to swallow in over a week. When this first started(with the swelling of his eye lids), he would try to pick up the hay, but didn't seem to be able to chew it well enough to swallow. The hay would either get spit out or it would remain in the inside of his check and then get spit out later. Eventually he just stopped trying to eat it(until the one time last night). By the way, he is not DrOoling at all...so I think he can swallow fine.

Since he will eat his pellets, I have begun to put some alfalfa pellets in with it too, but how much feed can I safely give a horse that has been such an easy keeper? He needs roughage right? He normally gets 1 quart of feed twice a day, plus 2-3 flakes of Timothy twice a day. He is a big bodied 16hh guy. Luckily, he was a little over weight before all this started. Now he looks like he is a little on the thin side(like a TB who is at racehorse weight). If this doesn't get solved soon he will starve regardless of what is wrong with his eye.

Debra
Member:
Canyon28

Posted on Thursday, Oct 30, 2003 - 8:56 pm:

I think you should discard the hay you were feeding him and keep him on good quality pelleted feed until the problem is resolved or explained. this will also help keep him from choking. I believe the problem is in your hay. would a gutteral pouch inflamation/infection do something like this? How about a grass seed or seeds that have lodged in the corners of the cheek?
Member:
Danny

Posted on Thursday, Oct 30, 2003 - 9:32 pm:

Hello Christine,

This forum is quiet incredible because of everyone's collective wealth of knowledge. I looked up gutteral pouch inflamation/infection. I don't think this is what is wrong. Danny does not present in quite the way the disease is described.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the hay per say either, as none of the other horses have had a problem. I also think the problem began before I bought the recent hay I have. If you look back at my original post I had said the horse seemed to not like the Timothy hay I was feeding a few weeks ago. At the time I thought he was being finicky as it was rather stalky. I changed hay then and a couple of days later is when all this (the swelling of the eye and consequent loss of vision) began.

That is why I was questioning a connection somehow between his mouth/jaw/teeth and consequential swelling of the eyelid, cheek, and face above his right eye which seems to have led to the loss of vision in that eye.

The not eating is part of the medical history but not the only thing. My vet thinks this is a cellulitis. I wonder if there is some foreign object somewhere or a abscessed tooth(like Dr O had mentioned). We are doing an ultrasound and radiographs tomorrow...so maybe we will know more then.

Thanks again...Debra
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Friday, Oct 31, 2003 - 2:22 am:

I'll be anxious to see the results. In the meantime, if he is on a pelleted feed, why don't you try adding a good amount of water to the feed? Make sure the water is lukewarm, since hot or cold could be painful on a tooth abcess or a sore mouth. Is your pelleted feed a whole feed? If it is, then missing some roughage won't matter quite so much....good luck
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Oct 31, 2003 - 6:24 am:

Danny with the difficulty chewing you should add a thorough oral/dental exam, neurology assesment, and skull radiographs to your list of important diagnostic steps. As already noted if there is a lot of difficulty swallowing you should carefully monitor water consumption and anything less than 6 gallons a day may indicate you need more laboratory monitoring for dehydration.
DrO
Member:
Danny

Posted on Monday, Nov 17, 2003 - 12:28 pm:

Hi all,

Just wanted to give you a follow up on my horse. My horse is still blind in that eye. We think the swelling around and above his eye caused so much pressure it caused the retina to detach. So...the blindness is permanent. Otherwise, he is now eating and drinking again, and most of the swelling has gone down. All of the tests, biopsy's, bloodwork, neuro assessments, radiographs, etc...came back normal. Unfortunately, we will never know what was wrong. That part really bugs me (he appeared so ill at one point we thought he might die)but what more can I do? Thank you for all the suggestions.

Debra
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Nov 17, 2003 - 5:30 pm:

I disagree with your assesment that you do not know what is wrong. Normal findings on the above tests rule out many possibilities. This along with the clinical signs suggest strongly either local infection or envenomation.
DrO
Member:
Danny

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 18, 2003 - 5:35 pm:

DrO

How could all the tests(biopsy, cytology, bloodwork, etc.) come back normal if there was an infection? Tissue samples were taken from the localized area. Wouldn't examining this tissue have shown something? My vet did say that it could have been a cellulitis...but...bottom line is he doesn't know. I liked your idea about venom...we do have rattle snakes, coral snakes, water moccasins, and scorpions)...but the more I thought about it I wondered how it could be because the horse began to have difficulty chewing a week before any swelling to the eye and suborbital area around it became apparent(I believe there is a definate connection between the difficulty chewing and swelling of the eye). At the time I thought my horse was just being picky about the hay we were offering...not that he was in too much pain to eat it. If this was a snake or insect bite wouldn't the swelling be apparent when first bitten...not several days later?

Thanks for your ideas...Debra
Member:
Paul303

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 - 12:41 am:

I'm so sorry to hear about the blindness. It's so very frustrating to not know...You could always persue the oral, neurological, opthalmic assessment. Best of luck
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 - 6:04 pm:

Medicine is not always straight forward. If you want to cite just the things that are inconsistent with a diagnosis while dismissing the very strong evidence for a diagnosis, you will make very few diagnoses. It is a shame that a specific cause was not found but you have to look at the preponderance of the evidence and not single details which may have not behaved like you think they should for a number of reasons.
DrO
Member:
Danny

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 19, 2003 - 7:43 pm:

So, if I am following your reply...not looking at single details...it is entirely possible that the horse was bitten by something and had an extremely delayed reaction time. Interestingly, this particular horse has had increasingly extreme and more and more delayed reactions to his vaccines over the years. As a youngster he would react the day of his vaccines. As he grew older the time between vaccination and reaction grew. The last time he was vaccinated(a year and a half ago)the delay was 5 days. With each time vaccinated the reaction grew worse and worse. We don't vaccinate him anymore for fear that he will die from the reaction.

So...do you think it possible he was bitten by something and had such a delayed reaction time that it could account for/ cause the symptoms and consequent vision loss?

Debra
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Nov 20, 2003 - 9:14 am:

I think either an unlocalized infection, that was missed on attempts to find it, or envenomnation is consistent with the information you provide. I think a black widow spider would be most likely considering the reaction and lack of other obvious bites. Bee stings don't generally cause this much reaction.
DrO
Member:
Albionsh

Posted on Thursday, Nov 20, 2003 - 5:19 pm:

Another possibility is the brown recluse spider--a very nasty fellow. I am so glad to hear that the swelling has gone down. Your horse seems to be winning this battle. You can get more information on the brown recluse, also know as the violin back spider, by doing some searches. My own experience with this spider was not very good.

Nancy
Member:
Danny

Posted on Friday, Nov 21, 2003 - 7:45 am:

DrO, You mean localized right(not unlocalized)?. We have no black widow spiders here...we do have scorpions, and spiders that resemble the brown recluse but I have never heard that name before so I don't know if that is a possiblity or not(thanks for the suggestion Nancy). We also have plenty of poisonous snakes. I don't want to beat a dead horse here(pun intended), but I still don't understand how a localized infection could not give up it's identity in the form of direct biopsy and cytology from the very place of swelling and obvious discomfort. In otherwords, if you have a grossly swollen area and you take a biopsy from it and also withdraw tissue and fluids from it and all the labwork comes back normal, how can it still be an infection? I can understand how an internal abscess or something that is not seen, is self contained(like an abscess), and has not become systemic can be missed in bloodwork...but I don't get how withdrawing tissue and fluid samples from an obviously inflamed area can yield no information.

My vet kept pondering the idea of cellulitis. What is the difference between cellulitis and infection?

Debra

Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Nov 21, 2003 - 7:03 pm:

No I meant “unlocalized”. This means you did not find the specific area that was infected. The infection was not localized or “unlocalized”. Cellulitis means inflamation of the connective tissues underlying the skin. A common cause of this inflammation would be infection.
DrO
Member:
Danny

Posted on Sunday, Nov 23, 2003 - 1:59 am:

DrO,

The reason I thought you really meant "localized" was because that is how you referred to it in every other post you have written other than the one written on November 20th. Either way, I understand and appreciate all you have written and suggested.

Thank you...Debra
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Nov 23, 2003 - 7:38 pm:

The usage is consistant, lets see if I can help you understand. A "local infection" is one which is occurring in a specific location and has not gained access to the blood. Cellulitis is an example. “Localized” means you have found the source of the infection and “unlocalized” means you haven’t.
DrO
New Member:
Annahope

Posted on Monday, Jul 19, 2004 - 2:17 am:

Hello,
I think I have a problem with my 4yr old quarter horse gelding..My horse is a red roan with a baldy face..My problem started today when I went to feed him..I whistled and called his name but could not find him...This is a large paddock I keep him in. I finally located him standing way back in the paddock under some large trees..I walked across the field calling him(which he usually comes) and he just turned and walked back in the trees. I wnt and retrieved him and I noticed when I started to lead him, he was just not leading correctly, in other words he was acting peculiar..I led him right up to the gate and before I could unlatch the gate he ran right into it with his face( no injury)
I Knew something was up...I took him up to the barn and put him in the stall, fed him and placed water in the trough...He acts as if he is blind...bumped into the watering trough, instead of just going straight to the water he just searched and felt his way around like a blind man..he has had maybe one eye infection and that happened about 2 yrs ago after feeding some rather dry hay and dust got into his eyes...treated with antihistamine powder..Anyway I put my hand up to his eye as if to strike at him and no response came did this to opposite side also and no response...My father had worked with Cisco several months ago and broke him to ride ,this is an extremly laid back horse nothing frightens him very easy going, my father stated that when he was riding him that as long as they were riding in the light he was okay but when they came upon shadow Cisco would creep into the shadow...His eyes seem clear, did not have a flashlight handy to test his reactiveness to light at this time I intend to go back in am and ck him out ...Is my thinking correct that he is possibly blind?? Please help I am soo very worried.. Thank you Hope}
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jul 19, 2004 - 7:20 am:

Hope,
Yes I think this is possible: what were the lighting conditions at the time you were there? There is a condition called night blindness that runs is Appaloosa blood lines that result in diminished visual acuity during low light conditions. You should note that a pupillary response to light does not rule out some types of blindness.
DrO
Member:
Annahope

Posted on Monday, Jul 19, 2004 - 3:52 pm:

Dr O,

It was around 730p when I fed him yesterday, and lighting was fair the sun was going down..But when I ckd him this am, he was still exhibiting the same as yesterday, bumbling around the stall...His appetite is excellent and he is drinking water...He is now coming when I call him...Is there any possiblity that this is a degeneration of the eye in some way? I've had him since he was about 4mths old and he did not exhibit any of this behavior until recently...I ckd his eyes this am and they do exhibit dullness, some cloudiness in the eye itself...Is there anything I can do for him other than keep him safe?? I know you can't correct blindeness..Should I get my vet to come and look at him?
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC