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Carole Curley
Member
Username: Mosttime
Post Number: 4
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 1, 2004 - 7:09 pm: |   |
Hi DrO,
I've heard many theories on whether it is safe to train in cold winter temps (teens, 20's). My horse is a TB, 19 years old, in good health, training 1st & 2nd level dressage. I usually ride daily 40-60 minutes, hard enough to break a sweat even on cold days (in an unheated indoor arena). I usually suspend hard training, even all riding when <25 degrees F. I've heard cold temps are very hard on horses lungs, and also heard if they are in good health it doesn't matter. What's the truth? Any tips for riding safely in cold temps?
Thanks!!
Carole in NJ |
robertjbraun
Member
Username: Rjbraun
Post Number: 66
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, Feb 1, 2004 - 8:53 pm: | |
Hi CAROLE ,I like to jump into this post to all you young people .Back in the 40,s when I was young we rode in 10-20 %below never though about .I FROZE my hands to this day if it gets 35% or so they turn white and I can not feel any thing ,nuts right?But never hurt the horses .We feed them hay and oats never dewormed them and they lived to 30&40s.THose were the days .They came back into a warm barn feed a little and settled down.
7 |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 9888
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 2, 2004 - 7:08 am: | |
We have several reports on The Advisor just like Roberts. There is no research into this but there is no reason to believe that horses are more sensitive than you to the cold, in fact just the opposite: horses do very well in the very cold.
DrO |
Cheryl Anderson
Member
Username: Canderso
Post Number: 214
Registered: 3-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 2, 2004 - 7:11 am: | |
Interesting point, Robert. What kind of work were you doing with the horses - was it short intensive hard work (where the horse worked up a sweat) or was it longer, less intense work?
The reason why I ask is, as you probably know, the real problem in cold weather is staying dry. |
robertjbraun
Member
Username: Rjbraun
Post Number: 67
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 2, 2004 - 8:41 am: | |
Hi CHERYL ,We rode sometimes for hours in snow and very cold had to stop to take the snowballs out of the shoes .We were just a bunch young guys &gals who loved horses and rideing.Rode at night also cold & moon lite. Miss those days.Your about not sweating them up ,if we did we would rub them down dry. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 207
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 2, 2004 - 4:25 pm: | |
Cheryl,
There are thousands of very expensive horses training hard, as we speak, in the temperatures you describe.
I have seen million dollar horses training at a gallop at 10 degrees F, and their trainers were not ignorant or careless, so I do not think there is any lung risk.
I have read in several studies that the average unclipped horse only starts burning calories to maintain body heat at around -10 Celsius (14 F, I think). Body condition, humidity, coat thickness and, of course, acclimatization, will all affect this tolerance.
Clipping the horse and keeping it at a cold environment is a natural anabolic, as it will boost metabolism and increase food intake.
Cold is good for the horse, Cheryl, as far as the animal is dry and away from wind. Care and protection are necessary during warm up and cool down.
I would think a ten minute walk followed by a ten minute easy trot to be proper warm-up in cold weather. You say that you only ride 40-60 minutes, that sounds like not enough warm-up to me. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 165
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Monday, Feb 2, 2004 - 9:16 pm: | |
We used to live where night temps were often -40F. and daytimes would warm up to zero. We also had lots of snow all winter long. The horses seemed to love it. They would buck and run,and roll in the snow when turned out. The kids and I and friends all rode our horses all winter long. Sometimes we would take turns pulling each other at a gallop on skis or an inner tube. If the horses got wet, we rubbed them down and covered them with a cooler and blanket until they dried off. The horses were well fed, and had heavy blankets at night and could go in and out of their stalls as they pleased unless it was stormey. Our horses were healthier than many of the horses that lived in the valley where it was warmer. I think the riders are the ones bothered by the cold. |
Cheryl Anderson
Member
Username: Canderso
Post Number: 215
Registered: 3-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 3, 2004 - 7:08 am: | |
Christos, right now I would say that 10 F is WARM! Cripes, even in the fall, we just start to notice the chill at that temp(grin).
No, I am talking COLD, (-40), which is an entirely different story. I agree it is not as bad a story for horses as it is for humans.
Coming back to the topic, I tend to ride for as long as (1) I can feel my hands: what is the point in 'training' if your hands are dead? and (2) I can be sure my horse will be DRY before I leave the barn. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 210
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 3, 2004 - 8:47 am: | |
I meant Carole, the initiator of this post, sorry for the misdirection, Cheryl!
You are, of course, right, -40 is a whole different story, especially since such temperatures are usually windshield factors and not "still" cold (I do not even want to think of static -40F).
How are the horse's muzzles and ears doing in the -40s, Cheryl? Sara? I'd be terrified of frostbite risk in such conditions. Have you heard of such incidents?
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 166
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 3, 2004 - 10:50 am: | |
I'm talking about -40 in still air! No, we never had problems with frost bite, but we never clipped our horses and they grew very thick fur around ears and head. However, I have seen horses in Idaho that have lost parts of their ears due to frostbite. I think the difference is that those horses had no shelter from wet and wind. I worry a lot more about horses when the temps. are just about freezing and the snow is wet and heavy, or conditions are sleet/freezing rain and wind. When it's really cold and it snows the snow is very light and dry. Our horses were never left out during storms. I worry about them too much.
I think the "cold hands" measure is a good one!
btw-I've found the best way to have warm hands is to wear rag wool gloves that have partial fingers and a mitten half that fold back when you need to use individual fingers. My hands stay much warmer in these than any glove I've tried.
Also, we no longer live where it gets that cold and snowy. We have become wimps in our old age! |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 211
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 3, 2004 - 11:18 am: | |
That's impressively cold, Sara. I admire your courage!
I'll never again complain about what we call bitter cold around here (20F). |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 167
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 3, 2004 - 5:20 pm: | |
Christos-you'll notice I said I don't live there any more!
That was in the high Sierra's (Truckee) California. The humidity is very dry there, which makes a big difference. When I go back to the East Coast in the winter I freeze. I think nothing is a bad as about 33 degrees F with a brisk breeze on the E. Coast. I'd much rather be at 0 degrees in the mtns. |
Cheryl Anderson
Member
Username: Canderso
Post Number: 216
Registered: 3-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Feb 3, 2004 - 7:49 pm: | |
The horses do ok - not great, but ok. The honest truth around here is that when we get that cold, a lot of people keep their horses in more to stop their barns from freezing than anything else.
I haven't heard of horses getting frostbite but don't see why it wouldn't be possible. We make sure to not clip ears or necks. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 168
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2004 - 1:12 am: | |
If I were a "zillionaire" I'd pack up all the horses and go to Palm Springs, or somewhere else warm for the winter!
btw-my grandfather told me people in some parts of the NE had a manure pit under the barn, then the animals on the ground floor, and the people lived above them all. (speaking of keeping horses in to warm the barn.) |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 212
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2004 - 5:15 am: | |
Yes, Sara, I also believe humidity, wind and some 25F to be the worst conditions possible.
I have met the worst cold imaginable on Crete, that is only some 150 miles north of the Sahara desert. In the winter, north wind from the sea is often a steady 30 mph, and with a temperature of 20-25F you do see Scandinavian people cursing the "sunny" climate...
We did have the arrangement your grandpa describes in the old family house. Underground manure pit, barn and kitchen on ground floor, bedrooms above. The barn had a floor of railroad tracks, I think about 1,5 inches apart, with wooden beams riveted along the top. The animals pressed the manure through the floor gaps and into the unerground pit, so no daily mucking out was required.
Surprisingly enough, it was not a smelly situation, it never went on fire and nobody suffocated. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: Dro
Post Number: 9897
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2004 - 5:44 am: | |
I am not sure your horse would choose Palm Springs. The interesting thing in these discussions about horses and the cold is how poorly horses do when it gets hot. They do not adapt near as well as they do to the cold. The condition of "anhidrosis" is a good example of a metabolic condition that occurs because horses adapt poorly to hot humid conditions.
DrO |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 214
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2004 - 6:37 am: | |
Even more interesting, doctor, is how poorly we accept the herbivore's "need" for cold.
Though numerous studies and books have been published, people have a hard time believing that 5-10 Celsius is far better for the well-being of these animals than 25-30 Celsius.
I think an article about how temperature and humidity affect metabolism, pregnancy, growth and performance would be of great interest.
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Sara Wolff
Member
Username: Mrose
Post Number: 169
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2004 - 12:42 pm: | |
Your are right. I think people tend to equate their comfort level with the horses. When allowed to hair up and when fed right they do amazingly well with even just wind breaks. I know our horses when in Truckee and almost no parasites, and were never sick-unless they had been down to the "lowlands." Infact, my children were the same way. They'd be outside most of the day skiing or playing in the snow,and never would even get colds.
I'd love to see such an article(s) as you describe Christos. I don't recall ever reading anything about the benefits of the cold or seasonal changes. |
Christos Axis
Member
Username: Christos
Post Number: 215
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Feb 4, 2004 - 1:53 pm: | |
There are several studies about meat and milk production animals and how temperature and humidity affects them, even down to breed details.
Any agricultural university will have an abundance of information on the subject.
Unfortunately, the references to horses in these studies were poor and scarce, and I haven't been able to reach any horse specific studies in this field.
I am hesitant to adopt the same ideas for horses, as, though grazing herbivores as well, their systems are very different to cows and sheep.
Let's say, for instance, that horses are a bit better adapted to cold and a bit worse adapted to heat than cows. Wouldn't it then be logical that heat and humidity will adversely affect fetus development in a horse even more than in a cow?
Anybody with any relevant sources of information? Doctor?
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Lori
Member
Username: Maggienm
Post Number: 21
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, Oct 25, 2004 - 5:23 pm: | |
Well, I still live in country where it gets -40F.
The air is fairly dry around here, I have heard enough people say to believe it that dry cold is not as cold as wet cold. Also any wind is worse. I would rather have -30 no wind than -15 with wind.
As far as working the horse goes, the issue is the cold air in lungs. My Dad grew up working horses, teams to pull wagons loaded with hay to feed cattle, wood for the stoves etc. They hitched up every day, the cows have to eat, he said its not the temp that is the problem, more concern about slipping, but don't work them hard enough to make them breathe hard when its cold enough you feel the cold when you breath deep. Thats when you freeze their lungs. Sometimes if there was a nasty wind blowing he said they wrapped a cloth-somehow still can't figure this out- around their muzzle-like we would a scarf. Their own warmth would warm the air before it was breathed in.
So....Riding and working are fine just use common sense. If you breathe deep and you feel the cold inside don't make your horse work hard enough to breath deep. Use extra long cool downs, keep him out of all wind. Use that time to work on responses at the walk(if your horse is calm about it)Even get off and work on exercises on the ground with him, at least put a 1/4 sheet on him after you unsaddle while you pick his feet and put away your gear. Never put him away warm or wet.
Happy riding |
