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Lou
Member
Username: loopylou
Post Number: 22
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 31, 2007 - 10:01 am: |   |
My 13 year old Arab gelding is changing color. During the summer, he is usually a very dark bay, almost black. However, in the past few weeks he seems to be changing to a lighter color...almost chestnut/palamino. The darker hair can still be seen underneath. We recently moved from California (stopped in Colorado for 4 months)to Vermont but there's more sun in California than Vermont. I have also changed his diet so he gets more protein (feeding Poulin Grain Carb Safe AND Cool Calories). The only other thing that's different (other than the hay...which has always been grass but obviously different hay out here) is that he's on pasture and was recently wormed with Panacur. Could any of these changes impact coat color? Perhaps because it rains more here, and going from rain to sun?
Thank you for any advice.
Lou |
Erika L
Member
Username: erika
Post Number: 945
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 31, 2007 - 11:44 am: | |
I have a fader, too, Lou. I do think that rainfall has some to do with the rapid fading. I know that wet hair is more susceptible to any kind of damage than dry hair. Notice on my own cover-the-gray attempts!!
Keep in mind, too, that in summer, Vermont probably has longer days that California, adding up to more UV rays. Even comes through on cloudy days.
My black mare will be a red chestnut by fall if her fade rate keeps up! |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 2995
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 31, 2007 - 5:15 pm: | |
Lou, I'm unfamiliar with the feeds you mention. I know, however, that quality of feed will impact hair color, and if a dark horse isn't getting the right minerals it will impact their hair color. There's a lot of differences in hays from area to area, even year to year. You should maybe have your hay tested to see if it's lacking something, "fill in" with supplements. |
Ruth Powning
Member
Username: chance1
Post Number: 45
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 31, 2007 - 5:46 pm: | |
Hi Lou,
I have a black QH who bleaches out terribly too! He is especially bleached out where he sweats. As Sara suggested, I'm having my hay tested to see what might be lacking. I know that I've heard that Martha Stewart has Friesians and she only lets them out at night so they don't bleach out. I'm not willing to go to those extremes. I've also heard that paprika is supposed to help, but I'm not convinced. I'll be interested to hear what others have to say on this one. I'm willing to try anything, as long as it still allows him to be a horse! |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 2998
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 31, 2007 - 8:01 pm: | |
Some blacks are not truely black but are black bays and these will fade and will also show some seal or brown where their flanks meet their abdomens and sometimes around their noses. Some black who are true blacks will fade with improper diet. Also, sweat left on will cause fading in the sun, as will baby and other oils, some fly sprays and coat conditioners and Show Sheen.
I give my black stallion Black as Knight, which I think is basically paprika. He's always rinsed after work, and I'm careful about what is used on him. Of course, he also is sensitive to a lot of sprays, etc. so I have to be really careful anyway. When our stallion's dam was still alive, I'd only turn her out at night or when it was cool, as she really would get sweaty and hot in the heat. |
Lou
Member
Username: loopylou
Post Number: 23
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Tuesday, Jul 31, 2007 - 8:38 pm: | |
I will get the hay tested. I'm hoping its the rain & weather as opposed to nutritional issues. There is a selenium deficiency and I got blood work done but the vet forgot to get the vile for the selenium done so I have to do it again (which means doping up my horse who things needles are going to kill him). I don't care what color he is as long as he's healthy. Wondering if Dr. O knows of any deficiencies that can cause hair color change... perhaps its acid rain!! |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 18955
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 7:28 am: | |
I am not aware of any mineral deficiencies that are a cause of color changes in the hair, for more see the article on minerals for a list of symptoms.
I have heard of rare cases of horses turning colors other than grey of course, this is apparently not the case here since the new hairs coming in are dark. It sounds like classic sun bleaching and I suspect the horse gets more pasture time in Vermont than in California or the pasture time is during more concentrated sunlight periods.
DrO |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1306
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 9:49 am: | |
Sara,
You have a black stallion? You should post a picture him!
I think having horses that change colors with the seasons is kinda neat. It's like you have more horses, lol! My Cody who is a dapple grey, goes lighter and darker with the seasons. I love it in the spring, he just "glimmers" in the pasture. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3001
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 10:48 am: | |
MR Asmar (Dal Noir x DB Isismoniet) aka: Mikey |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1308
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 11:19 am: | |
He's so HANDSOME!! He looks leggy, how tall? Egyptian blood lines? Now I have more reasons to come visit, I want to meet your stud, lol!!
Thanks for sharing! |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3002
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 12:26 pm: | |
Thanks, Angie. Yes, he's straight Egyptian and Al Khamsa. His dam was also "Blue List" if all that means anything. He's 16h. He has a wonderful laid back disposition (90% of the time) and is the one I ride western and hunter at shows. I love him to death; he's my "baby." In fact, Lonnie calls him "Baby Mikey." |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3003
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 12:28 pm: | |
btw, Angie, when you come out, I'll let you ride him! (Maybe that will get you out for a visit!) |
Lori
Member
Username: maggienm
Post Number: 514
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 1:43 pm: | |
Oh.. my.. Sara! He is nice. 16 hands? I have heard of tall Arabs but never have seen one. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3008
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 2:19 pm: | |
Thanks,Lori. He weighed 150lbs. when he was born! His poor mom! I'm the one you see at the shows carrying around the step stool so I can get on my horse! I'm 5'3" and getting rather stiff! |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3009
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 2:28 pm: | |
Dr.O - I am surprised to read that color isn't affected by diet. I've always been told that he does - not the true color (ie. from bay to palomino) but the appearance of the color (ie from a washed out looking brown to a very dark bay.) I've known horses whose colors changed dramatically when fed right. My parents once bought a walking horse that was a washed out buckskin color (without the markings) After a few months of good pasture and supplements she turned into a beautiful, deep chestnut. |
Holly Wood
Member
Username: hwood
Post Number: 2062
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 2:36 pm: | |
I've never really thought about diet and color, but I wonder if it is true that diet effects coat color if we can effect our skin/hair color by eating differently??? You may be onto something, Sara . . . What should I eat to get the gray to return to auburn?? ;-) |
jos
Member
Username: paardex
Post Number: 337
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 2:42 pm: | |
He is soo beautiful Sara! Does he breed his size too?
Jos
PS On the color subject: Friesians need to stay black too and they usually are kept out of the sun if they go to shows. Some people feed them dried seaweed to keep the colour 'pigmented' as much as possible as they say. |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3010
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 3:15 pm: | |
Holly - I've heard that Flamingos in the zoo are fed carrots so they stay pink. Naturally, the shrimp and other things they eat keep them pink. If they don't eat right, they loose their color. So...maybe lots and lots of carrots? Of course, your skin may take on a reddish hue also! It's easier to do what I do; buy a bottle of Clarol!
Jos, I've never heard of feeding seaweed for color. Kelp?
Yes, he always has improved upon the mare's size and also his foals are very easy to get along with (a bigger plus than size or color,imo.) |
Lilo
Member
Username: lilo
Post Number: 557
Registered: 4-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 3:19 pm: | |
Sara - "Baby Mikey" is beautiful. You are so lucky to have such a beautiful stallion - and one that passes on his temperament to boot. Some baby!
Lilo |
Angie J.
Member
Username: ajudson1
Post Number: 1309
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 7:46 pm: | |
Sara,
I can ride him?!? I am buying a plane ticket ASAP!!!
Wowza, what an offer, I am speechless!
Seriously, you may see us next summer, or at least the following summer as Brian loves to travel, can't wait to head your way.
O.K., I would like something to change me hair color too.
Holly eat enough carrots and your skin could turn orange, would that help you hair though? lol! |
Gwen Robison
Member
Username: gwen
Post Number: 470
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 7:50 pm: | |
Mikey is a looker... |
katrina
Member
Username: kthorse
Post Number: 913
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 8:40 pm: | |
Sara I love him. I am normal a crabbet fan , but I do love your boy. He is a looker, bet he has nice offspring.
Katrina |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3013
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 8:54 pm: | |
Angie, sure you can ride him. He's easy to ride; just sit there and let him "do his thing." He's very smooth and easy. The toughest part, for me, is getting on! Now, if you want a good western head set you have to use your legs and push him into the bridle. Other than that, he's a sweetheart! I really hope you do make it out..NEXT summer. Tell your hubby I'm getting old and might not be able to ride summer after next! |
Sara Wolff
Member
Username: mrose
Post Number: 3016
Registered: 1-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 11:49 pm: | |
Here's one of his daughters. |
Robert N. Oglesby DVM
Moderator
Username: dro
Post Number: 18963
Registered: 1-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 2, 2007 - 6:56 am: | |
Sara, your parents horse was always a deep rich chestnut but needed good care to bring it out. It was the general improvement in care and living conditions that allowed the horse to rid itself of the sunbleached dry coat and replaced it with the better appearance but the diet did not change the horse's color. Take that same horse and keep feeding it the same and force it out into the sun for long hours a day in dusty conditions that make keep the skin clean impossible and it will return to the same description you give of when you first saw the horse.
You can turn the nonpigmented regions like the sclera and mucosa of horses orange with excessive amounts of carotene, I have seen a pony that suffered from an unusually large carrot harvest, but the pigmented skin and hair coat did not change.
DrO |
Lou
Member
Username: loopylou
Post Number: 25
Registered: 3-2007
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 2, 2007 - 9:43 am: | |
Ugh more problems which I'm not sure how to describe. Ok - so he's basically changed to a lighter (quite nice) color. However, there are patches of darker hair. Not really patches though - e.g one couldn't put a size to it as the dark parts are very small (less than dime size or smaller) but frequent. Mostly this is occurring along his back. He has not been ridden for over two weeks as I've been away at class. I don't think its rain rot as there are no scabs and in addition (poor guy) he is developing dew poisoning or rain rot on his pasterns. The dark "patches/streaks" are slightly scaly/dry. I will try to take a picture today and am about to nip out to buy some betadine shampoo in case its fungus. I also have the microtek spray stuff which lots of people swear by so I guess it won't hurt. I'm sure all of this is from moving to a completely new environment with humid weather but I also believe that skin disorders are more likely when the immune system is depressed so about to re-read the vitamin/mineral supplement articles. |
cp
Member
Username: cpacer
Post Number: 377
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, Aug 2, 2007 - 9:43 am: | |
Wow, he's nice! I guess my black arabian isn't really black after all. |
